Frodo Feature Freeze! – And the October Cycle

Posted By: Nathan Betzen on Nov 03, 2012 in Site News

The rumors are true.  As you may have noticed if you avidly watch XBMC development on Github, we have now entered Feature Freeze for the upcoming release of XBMC 12: Frodo.

For the average user, this means a couple things. First, you should begin to see XBMC Beta releases coming out very shortly. Second, given our fairly well documented open development cycle, there should be very few surprises from now until the release of Frodo. By definition, the features you see now are the same features you will see when Frodo is released with the possible exception of some smaller updates in the default skin Confluence.  So if you’d like to see what XBMC 12 is going to look like, feel free to install the October alpha at the bottom of this post. As always, it’s important to remember that the alphas are definitely alpha software that you use at your own risk.

Release Manager

Much as development for Frodo was dramatically different than development for Eden, so too will the upcoming Beta process be different. This year we’ve created the new position of Release Manager, who is in complete control of the Frodo branch from the time we entered feature freeze until the time XBMC has been released. The Release Manager will determine when a new Beta is released, when XBMC is ready to switch to release candidates and Gold status, and whether code changes are fixes (OK) or features (not OK). Needless to say, it is a thankless job and a job that requires a person who is both extremely well versed in the code of XBMC and not afraid to make people angry to get the job done.

Which is why we are excited to say that we’ve selected grumpy developer extraordinaire Spiff to be our Release Manager for XBMC 12. We are convinced that Spiff will do a truly fantastic job in the role, even if he does get a few white hairs in the process!

October Cycle

The current goal is to release the first Beta of XBMC 12 at some time mid-November. At that time, we will review all the many features that have been added since the release of Eden. Likewise, during the Beta cycle, we’d like to continue to highlight the work done by our Google Summer of Code students in one or two posts.

For now, we will simply review the new features submitted during the last dev cycle before feature freeze.

UPnP Update

Just as we hit the feature freeze wire, a significant portion of one of the remaining most frequently requested features was added to XBMC. alcoheca’s GSOC project, a massive update of UPnP to make XBMC a truly capable UPnP server is now part of mainline. While transcoding is not part of the update, all metadata, images, and library functions including watched and unwatched status are now available depending on your client – naturally, an XBMC client is best, though efforts are ongoing to work with the numerous alternative clients that all use slightly different specs from one another.

Unfortunately, using XBMC as a UPnP server is still not the preferred method for an XBMC client. For one thing, Confluence and all current skins are designed to expect only a local database or a MySQL database masquerading as a local database, which means one would theoretically need to re-scrape the UPnP server into your local library for the TV shows link to show up in the home screen, which immediately cuts out much of the benefit of a dedicated UPnP server.*  For another, at present while the server can tell the client what has and has not been watched, a major bug exists in that the client cannot tell the server the same thing. This means, if you mark Big Buck Bunny as watched on your XBMC client, the watched status on the server won’t be updated. For that matter, since you are using the server library, Big Buck Bunny won’t be marked as watched on your client either.

*For early testers, we highly recommend that you NOT Set Content, if that is still an option for you, as it will likely cause problems in the system.

As such, for now continuing to use SMB or NFS shares on your XBMC clients is still the recommended route, but we will keep you updated on the progress of UPnP, including any bug fixes throughout the Beta process. Additionally, skilled skinners, we are excited to see if and how you incorporate UPnP nodes into your design. To see an ongoing discussion of how UPnP will be improved now and in the future, feel free to visit alcoheca’s GSoC forum thread.

Advanced Filtering

If you have been reading the monthly cycle updates, you know that Montellese has been working on major improvements to the underlying XBMC library. A significant culmination of that work has been added this month in the form of the newly updated Filter.

Now those of you with an extensive library will be able to filter your library by any number of new, simple methods, including title, rating, year, actor, whether the series is ongoing, etc., and you can of course combine as many of those methods as you like for laser focus. Additionally, this filtering will occur in realtime, so the moment you narrow the span of years, your library will immediately narrow to meet the specification without any need of hitting the “OK” button.

Many More

Needless to say, because October was feature freeze month, numerous additional features have been added, including…

  • numerous JSON-RPC updates, including PVR support, optimizations, better conflict handling, and better webserver support by Montellese
  • PVR timeshift support (if the backend supports timeshift) – hat tip to non-team member Margo for this one
  • improvements to the OMXplayer, the media player of Raspberry Pi by gimli
  • Additionally, OMXplayer can now play back DVD ISOs if users have gotten the MPEG2 codec license thanks to user epideme
  • the CD ripper now works in the background thanks to Spiff
  • panoramic photo panning support by Montellese
  • Dirty Region support is now on by default by TheUni
  • Further improved image handling in the database, allowing one to select fanart, poster, banner, and thumb, rather than forcing the choice between downloading posters and downloading banners – kudos to Jonathan Marshall and Montellese for this work.

As always, this is a mere selection of numerous changes from this month. For a full list, feel free to check out the GitHub changelog. Or, if you are feeling a bit brave and a bit lucky, just start downloading.

  • Windows and OSX
  • Apple TV and iOS installation instructions
  • Given the additional complexities of distribution, builds for Linux are not currently available at XBMC.org. A number of developers are currently hard at work on the problem however. With luck, we should finally have a Linux PPA available by the time the Betas begin rolling out.
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Discussion - 70 Comments

  • Thade Nov 03, 2012 

    I’m really welcoming the improvement on the image handling, can’t stand to either choose between poster or thumb. XD

  • Lloyd Smart Nov 03, 2012 

    Fantastic news! Very much looking forward to the release. Also, UPnP looks very interesting and could simplify server-client setups a hell of a lot! Bye-bye NFS, SMB, MySQL. Hello UPnP!

  • Harley Nov 03, 2012 

    *You can not set content for UPnP sources any longer, see pull request 1722

    So no need to warn people not to try to scrape DLNA sources any longer ;)

  • rikardo1979 Nov 03, 2012 

    Thanks to all behind who working hard to brings the best multimedia experience to our homes.

  • Alikuenkano Nov 03, 2012 

    Thank you so much, guys !!!

    You are really fantastic !!!
    Good job !!!

  • jonathan Nov 03, 2012 

    Will it be possible to filter based on number of votes?

  • Martijn Nov 03, 2012 

    @Harley
    This was added after this monthly build so hence the warning

  • Oby Nov 03, 2012 

    Congrats, great work!!!

  • ZIOLele Nov 03, 2012 

    “PVR timeshift support (if the backend supports timeshift) – hat tip to non-team member Margo for this one”

    Someone has more infos? i can’t find it on the forum ( possibly wrong search terms)

  • EricV Nov 03, 2012 

    I do not know why people would use XBMC as a UPnP server. OK its indexes the content for getting nice info in its database but any DMS can also do that and are much lighter to use : who need to start a graphical interface for UPnP streaming? A DMS should be always on… BUT I’m very happy to see frodo soon.

  • CesarMan Nov 03, 2012 

    Good job, i waiting for the beta ;)

  • Zyn Nov 03, 2012 

    DSP support please! :) We’d like to use equalizer! Thanks!

  • ZIOLele Nov 03, 2012 
  • sialivi Nov 03, 2012 

    @EricV

    A common usecase would be if you have a dedicated HTPC running XBMC, you wouldn’t need to have a separate DMS running.

  • dCrypt Nov 03, 2012 

    ZIOLele :
    “PVR timeshift support (if the backend supports timeshift) – hat tip to non-team member Margo for this one”
    Someone has more infos? i can’t find it on the forum ( possibly wrong search terms)

    And more important, which are the backends+addon which support timeshifting?

    Kind regards.

  • Pettergulbra Nov 03, 2012 

    Yes, thanks for this great program/media center. I just love it, and have used it for several years.

    The uPnP is very much welcome :-)

  • Zeke Nov 03, 2012 

    I’ve been using some of the alphas from September and October (the Win32 October 3rd version is the one I’m currently on) and I have to say, Frodo is a really big step forward from Eden. My personal reason for the change was XBMC v11 stable would fall apart when trying to play 1080i50 TS files direct from my satellite DVR, whereas in the v12 betas the newer FFmpeg libraries allow seamless playback (with proper deinterlacing) that I could not attain with Media Player Classic and VLC even after some tweaks.

    But there are other great options and improvements that go beyond that too, like all the more advanced HD audio options and general speedup of all parts of the UI, no doubt due to better dirty region implementation as XBMC developers remove more of the legacy Xbox stuff and optimise the core code for smoother multi-platform support. It also fixes the annoying playlist order bug that Eden had too, at least on my hardware. The uPnP stuff is irrelevant to me – it’s never been easier than just sharing stuff via SMB and FTP, so defeats the object – but I’m sure the improved support will please some of the user base, so was worth the effort

    Other than some problems related to the alpha state of the build I’m using (LOTS of crashes, although I had a fair few with Eden per week), and some problems I’ve had with menus on full Blu-ray ISOs – all of which may well be ironed out by RC stage – I’m very happy with the results, and once again reassured that using XBMC as my main media player since 2008 has been and still is the right choice.

    XBMC devs, keep up the outstanding work. You’re making it easier than ever before to create a media convergence device that turns half-decent hardware into a slick, set-top box style appliance.

  • nedscott Nov 03, 2012 

    EricV :

    I do not know why people would use XBMC as a UPnP server. OK its indexes the content for getting nice info in its database but any DMS can also do that and are much lighter to use : who need to start a graphical interface for UPnP streaming? A DMS should be always on… BUT I’m very happy to see frodo soon.

    While most of XBMC’s UPnP features will work with other UPnP clients, most of it is designed to work between multiple XBMC devices, and that’s where it shines. It’s the easiest way to share a library with full metadata (summaries, art, dvd covers, etc) between multiple XBMC clients.

    http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=HOW-TO:Share_libraries_using_UPnP

  • nedscott Nov 03, 2012 

    ZIOLele :

    “PVR timeshift support (if the backend supports timeshift) – hat tip to non-team member Margo for this one”

    Someone has more infos? i can’t find it on the forum ( possibly wrong search terms)

    Check out the (in-progress) PVR guide on the wiki: http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=PVR/Backend

  • Jeremy R Nov 03, 2012 

    Well done everyone!!

  • gras Nov 04, 2012 

    When will aif tags be supported so that my entire iTunes library multi-language tags and album covers ?

  • NineT9 Nov 04, 2012 

    F ya! <3 xbmc

  • EricV Nov 04, 2012 

    @sialivi

    But then you will have to start the HTPC with XBMC running even if using the display for something else.

  • EricV Nov 04, 2012 

    nedscott :

    EricV :
    I do not know why people would use XBMC as a UPnP server. OK its indexes the content for getting nice info in its database but any DMS can also do that and are much lighter to use : who need to start a graphical interface for UPnP streaming? A DMS should be always on… BUT I’m very happy to see frodo soon.

    While most of XBMC’s UPnP features will work with other UPnP clients, most of it is designed to work between multiple XBMC devices, and that’s where it shines. It’s the easiest way to share a library with full metadata (summaries, art, dvd covers, etc) between multiple XBMC clients.
    http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=HOW-TO:Share_libraries_using_UPnP

    I really think a much lighter seperate program being able to use the database would be much more useful. PVR programs could also integrate DMS, …

  • Dush Nov 04, 2012 

    I’m really looking forward to the uPnP side of things. I’ve been using Plex for a while because it just runs on my server so when I start up my htpc it doesn’t take 3-5 mins to get all the latest episodes/movies.

    I also want to use some sort of remote like Plex has but to beam uPnP links to my non XBMC devices like my WDTV and Panasonic Plasma. That way I get all the great things about meta-data but on all my devices without hooking up HTPC’s to each screen.

  • nedscott Nov 04, 2012 

    EricV :

    I really think a much lighter seperate program being able to use the database would be much more useful. PVR programs could also integrate DMS, …

    All the work and code being done could be spun into a light and headless server program. There’s already an effort to do this with XBMC’s scraping code as a stand alone server. So no effort wasted, and also something that could be ran on something like a linux-based NAS.

  • Ego Nov 04, 2012 

    Why is a MPEG2 codec license require for the Raspberry Pi, but not something like XBMCbuntu? Or is the license some sort of firmware level thing, and the SoC rejects any use of hardware decoding unless it detects the license?

  • Andy Nov 05, 2012 

    sigh… patiently waiting for Linux PPAs. Things are looking sooooooooo good!

  • justinb Nov 05, 2012 

    Now if only you would let us scan UPnP into our library

  • glypto Nov 05, 2012 

    Dush :
    I also want to use some sort of remote like Plex has but to beam uPnP links to my non XBMC devices like my WDTV and Panasonic Plasma. That way I get all the great things about meta-data but on all my devices without hooking up HTPC’s to each screen.

    Yes, for me this is the most wanted feature – be able to use XBMC on tablet/phone/laptop to browse the library and then play the content on second screen – TV or any DLNA renderer. So basicaly I’d like XBMC to work as a DLNA controller. Not sure whether this will be implemented in Frodo…

  • nedscott Nov 05, 2012 

    @Ego
    It’s required for hardware decoding support. Most computers can either handle mpeg2 in software, or they have hardware where the hardware vender has already paid for the license (such as the average GPU, card or on-board).

    The Raspberry Pi Foundation, being the hardware provider in this case, did not buy a license for mpeg2 in order to keep the price down, but the ability is there. Now it can be unlocked legally without anyone getting sued.

  • Charlie Nov 05, 2012 

    Stupid question regarding UPnP – if media files are being accessed over NFS from a NAS, and a UPnP “slave” attempts to play a movie, will it stream the movie from the NAS *via* the UPnP master, or will the slave communicate directly with the NAS over NFS? If its the former, that’s going to double the network traffic as the data transfers from the NAS to the master and finally over to the slave (this is with all 3 devices on a Homeplug network).

    Also, how important is the relative hardware specification of the UPnP master? I don’t have an “always on” device (other than the NAS) so a move to UPnP would require an always on XBMC player, which would most likely be a Raspberry Pi due to it’s low power requirements.

    I’m concerned about the gloom and doom regarding MySQL unless an alternative server or headless variant of XBMC UPnP can be provided for NAS implementations (FreeNAS in my case). Please don’t dismiss MySQL unless/until a superior server alternative is available – we don’t all have XBMC players on 24×7! :)

  • bberger Nov 05, 2012 

    Will those alpha-versions have the ForTheRecord PVR Add-On included? It’s a killer feature for me.. Pretty unhappy with Eden at the moment :(

  • justinb Nov 05, 2012 

    @Ego
    the raspberry pi can do hardware decoding of MPEG2 and some others but only if you buy the license and put a unlock key file in

  • Torsten Nov 06, 2012 

    I would rather see a solution, where you can have the entire media database on a nas/server and use xbmc as a thin client. Im guessing most people have a NAS somewhere and multiple xbmc devices

  • Mics Nov 06, 2012 

    Hi does anybody know if the Dolby Digital Plus audio format is supported in the upcoming release?

  • Mark Walker Nov 06, 2012 

    +1 for the inclusion of the ForTheRecord PVR Add-On.

  • nedscott Nov 06, 2012 

    @Torsten

    A “thin client” means something else than that. An actual thin client wouldn’t make any sense for XBMC, since a full copy is already so lean that it can run on very low powered ARM systems. If you want the media database on a NAS then look at MySQL. It would also be possible to run a headless version of XBMC on a NAS. We already run on ARM, and there’s a lot of work being done towards running a headless version of XBMC just for library updates and such. I would not be surprised to see a headless XBMC UPnP server with all the features of MySQL (and more) with less set up, within the next two years.

  • flyingrat Nov 06, 2012 

    Spiff is without doubt the one and only grumpy ol’ developer and I’m quite convinced he will do an excellent job as a Release Manager ;-) ;-)

    Great luck with all the new releases and a big thank you for the hard work to the xbmc-team!!

  • Cyberwizzard Nov 06, 2012 

    I hope the VDPAU improvements from https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/870 make it in there as they are supposed to fix the nasty bug where XBMC hangs at the start of a video and only the audio starts playing (forcing you to kill XBMC)…

  • Anonymous Nov 06, 2012 

    Charlie :
    Stupid question regarding UPnP – if media files are being accessed over NFS from a NAS, and a UPnP “slave” attempts to play a movie, will it stream the movie from the NAS *via* the UPnP master, or will the slave communicate directly with the NAS over NFS? If its the former, that’s going to double the network traffic as the data transfers from the NAS to the master and finally over to the slave (this is with all 3 devices on a Homeplug network).
    Also, how important is the relative hardware specification of the UPnP master? I don’t have an “always on” device (other than the NAS) so a move to UPnP would require an always on XBMC player, which would most likely be a Raspberry Pi due to it’s low power requirements.
    I’m concerned about the gloom and doom regarding MySQL unless an alternative server or headless variant of XBMC UPnP can be provided for NAS implementations (FreeNAS in my case). Please don’t dismiss MySQL unless/until a superior server alternative is available – we don’t all have XBMC players on 24×7! :)

    +1 on this, in exactly same boat, could anyone answer this at all??

  • dCrypt Nov 07, 2012 

    @nedscott

    I think the wiki information regarding timeshifting in VDR is not correct, as the VDR wiki says the opposite:

    http://linuxtv.org/vdrwiki/index.php/Introduction#Features

    Could it be a problem of add-ons not implementing timeshifting instead of backend support? If so, the wiki should be more explicit about timeshifting support/lack of support.

  • nedscott Nov 07, 2012 

    @dCrypt

    It’s the VDR add-on for XBMC that doesn’t have timeshifting support yet. I’ll see if I can make that a little clearer on the wiki.

  • nedscott Nov 07, 2012 

    @Anonymous , @Charlie

    I’m not entirely sure, but I think it does go over the network twice. A headless XBMC that could run from the NAS directly is very possible, so I don’t think you have to worry much. MySQL won’t be killed for a while either.

  • HTS Nov 07, 2012 

    Great news!!

    An early Christmas present for XBMC lovers!

  • soliter26 Nov 07, 2012 

    Hi guys, thanks for your great job, it is amazing. Just one question. Is there any possibility to add PVR add on for DVB viewer? I have seen one, but did not work for me on frodo nightly( do not know already which version). Thanks for your answer.

  • Charlie Nov 07, 2012 

    nedscott :
    @Anonymous , @Charlie
    I’m not entirely sure, but I think it does go over the network twice. A headless XBMC that could run from the NAS directly is very possible, so I don’t think you have to worry much. MySQL won’t be killed for a while either.

    Thanks for the reply, but if the data has to go over the network twice, that’s a pretty major reason NOT to use UPnP as it could mean XBMC with UPnP now exceeds the bandwidth capacity of the network – a network which may have worked fine when communicating directly with a NAS.

    It sounds like UPnP is a great innovation for those users whose “master” XBMC player is also their media storage server, meaning data is only transferred once over the network to any UPnP slaves, but when a separate NAS is being used for media storage (which I’m sure will be the case for a large number of users) the the inherent communication inefficiency imposed on UPnP slaves is a major negative, possibly even a show stopper. At the very least this communication inefficiency of UPnP should be confirmed, and if necessary pointed out in all future discussions. Yes, UPnP sounds great from an ease of use point of view, but it may also be unusable in some networks where bandwidth is scarce (eg. Homeplug networks that are more like a ring than point-to-point network).

    That said, when UPnP is running on the NAS, the communication inefficiency should be eliminated, so this can’t come soon enough.

  • nedscott Nov 08, 2012 

    @Charlie
    It is a non-issue on most networks that have at least 100meg ethernet. My Apple TV 2 is able to act as a UPnP server and send out 1080 movies that are first accessed via SMB, all without any buffering. I will make sure it gets noted in the UPnP documentation on the wiki, though.

  • Bill Nov 08, 2012 

    @nedscott
    Is it expected that the current issues / limitations with UPnP (i.e. watched status, library views) will be resolved in Frodo? It’s a little unclear between reading the above and the wiki what is planned for for Frodo and what is planned post-Frodo.

    Great idea using the Apple TV 2 as a UPnP server by the way!

  • Lukas Nov 08, 2012 

    NICE JOB!

    I hope the final release is at the end of december. Can´t wait! :)

    The “Advanced Filtering” is a good idea.

  • Martijn Nov 08, 2012 

    @Bill
    client->server watched status will not be in Frodo

  • eema Nov 08, 2012 

    Martijn :
    @Bill
    client->server watched status will not be in Frodo

    Why the article says this if it’s not available?
    “While transcoding is not part of the update, all metadata, images, and library functions including watched and unwatched status are now available”

  • eema Nov 08, 2012 

    nedscott :
    @Charlie
    It is a non-issue on most networks that have at least 100meg ethernet. My Apple TV 2 is able to act as a UPnP server and send out 1080 movies that are first accessed via SMB, all without any buffering. I will make sure it gets noted in the UPnP documentation on the wiki, though.

    I don’t think it’s a non issue…It’s quite a big issue, maybe you’ll be able to do the streaming well, but it’s still using twice the resources. It will be possible to find a workaround for the future or the people with separated SMB will always have to use MySQL?

  • Charlie Nov 08, 2012 

    nedscott :
    @Charlie
    It is a non-issue on most networks that have at least 100meg ethernet. My Apple TV 2 is able to act as a UPnP server and send out 1080 movies that are first accessed via SMB, all without any buffering. I will make sure it gets noted in the UPnP documentation on the wiki, though.

    Do you really think everyone has the luxury of 100Meg ethernet around their home? I do hope the UPnP implementation on XBMC can be made more efficient in the future, as doubling the network bandwidth consumed by media playback for a modicum of user convenience doesn’t seem like a great trade, or a smart solution.

  • nedscott Nov 08, 2012 

    @Charlie

    I think having more than one dedicated HTPC in a single home is a luxury. I think having a TV is a luxury.

    I really don’t see the point in bitching about something that has been apart of XBMC since the xbox days. It’s one of many options. If it doesn’t work for you, use something else. MySQL isn’t going away anytime soon. UPnP features in XBMC are currently evolving. Believe me, we’re not going to pull MySQL unless the replacement is reasonably on-par.

  • Charlie Nov 08, 2012 

    nedscott :
    @Charlie
    I really don’t see the point in bitching about something that has been apart of XBMC since the xbox days. It’s one of many options. If it doesn’t work for you, use something else. MySQL isn’t going away anytime soon. UPnP features in XBMC are currently evolving. Believe me, we’re not going to pull MySQL unless the replacement is reasonably on-par.

    The point is this aticle and the accompanying video give the impression that MySQL will be making way to UPnP, that MySQL support may not continue in the future. I admit that UPnP looks like a nice idea, but not if it means doubling network bandwidth which is just a crazy solution.

    I really don’t care if UPnP has been a part of XBMC since xbox days, if UPnP is now being pushed as the premier way to share content and metadata then it has to be said that UPnP on XBMC has a major drawback in terms of network usage efficiency that should be eliminated. With XBMC players costing as little as $35 a pop (Raspberry Pi) it’s obvious that sharing could become more common in future, and UPnP as it currently stands is a sub-optimal solution that may cause more problems than it solves.

  • nedscott Nov 08, 2012 

    @Charlie

    1. If you want to share libraries and you want to install the server on box A but host your media on box B then that’s what’s going to happen. It’s not UPnP’s problem that you want to use a server and a NAS as two different machines. It’s not UPnP or XBMC’s problem that you have a horrible local network that makes 1995 want to cry. Complaining about a “Box A/Box B” set up is like complaining that 1080 doesn’t play well over wireless B. Just about every actual “media server” software works like this when you -choose- to set it up like this. —Even then, very few people will have an issue here.

    2. Tons of people run an XBMC box on all the time as a file server. They do it for automated downloads, they do it to save a device, and they’ll probably do it even more because of PVR. Most people who install a MySQL set up for XBMC are doing so on actual desktop computers, not on stand-alone NAS boxes, and those computers have to be on all the time for MySQL to work. —Zero issues here for those people.

    3. We typically don’t give promises, but a headless XBMC with UPnP that can be installed on many NAS drives (anything that runs linux, even a $20 PogoPlug) is almost a given. —Zero issues in this situation.

    You got one little factoid about how two data streams are used in some situations and now you’re ranting about how UPnP is flawed. Even if it never improves from today, calling it a “sub-optimal solution that may cause more problems than it solves” is an uninformed and overblown statement.

    Instead of jumping to conclusions maybe you should try learning more about what’s going on.

  • dCrypt Nov 09, 2012 

    nedscott :
    @dCrypt
    It’s the VDR add-on for XBMC that doesn’t have timeshifting support yet. I’ll see if I can make that a little clearer on the wiki.

    Support is going on.

  • dCrypt Nov 09, 2012 

    dCrypt :

    nedscott :
    @dCrypt
    It’s the VDR add-on for XBMC that doesn’t have timeshifting support yet. I’ll see if I can make that a little clearer on the wiki.

    Support is going on.

    Sorry; here’s the link:

    https://github.com/pipelka/vdr-plugin-xvdr/issues/8#issuecomment-9438522

  • E71 Nov 09, 2012 

    I don’t know if this PVR support requires changes to the skin to have a “Live TV” option on the main menu.

    If it does I hope someone will update PM3 HD since it’s the only skin that suits my needs.

  • eema Nov 09, 2012 

    @nedscott

    So remember to write this when you talk how great it is uPnP to replace mySQL. Because not everyone have bandwith to WASTE (yes, using twice the bandwith when you can avoid it it’s a huge waste of resources and not everyone has the possibility to wire all the house), and even if you have enough to do it it’s still a waste.
    The problem i think it’s because with xbmc we’re trying to adapt a technology that it’s not think to be used to share a library but only to access remotely and easily to other sources.
    The most important question is if there’s a way in the upnp standard to prevent this waste that they can implement, because if there’s not upnp it will never be a real replacement of mysql, just a different thing with different purpose

  • nedscott Nov 09, 2012 

    @eema

    I need to apologies here for being a little worked up about this. Let me give you some background on the issue:

    When XBMC needed a new MySQL guide because the lifehacker one was outdated, I pushed for a new guide on the wiki (and ended up making most of it), and advertised it all over the place and let everyone know. I love MySQL sharing, despite it being a pain in the ass to set up. When it was first internally suggested to have UPnP replace MySQL I was the first one to say “but UPnP sucks!”. However, the rest of the team showed me that UPnP has all sorts of abilities we haven’t even tapped yet. Then alcoheca did his GSoC project and improved the crap out of our existing UPnP server and told us all sorts of other things that it will be able to do (look forward to XBMC v13 being able to use UPnP controlling for XBMC boxes being able to control each other, or “Play to” your UPnP TV without having a dedicated XBMC box).

    Given the current hard work that were done on UPnP in the here and now, I guess I got a little defensive about the feature in my replies here. It’s also a bit frustrating to see people diss something before it’s “done” (as far as a MySQL replacement goes). Rest assure, we want to do library sharing -right-.

    To reply to eema specifically, you say “The problem i think it’s because with xbmc we’re trying to adapt a technology that it’s not think to be used to share a library but only to access remotely and easily to other sources.”, this isn’t actually true. UPnP is incredibly feature rich and can do “two-way” communication between clients and servers for some time now. It’s far more than a “read only” protocol. UPnP can even be used to sync just metadata, allowing for other protocols to be used for the actual video itself.

    There’s a few ways that this “waste” (which, I still gotta nitpick here, is still only a problem in some setups, as many can have a UPnP server on the NAS/storage itself and thus not wasting any bandwidth) could be dealt with. How it will be is up to the developers working on it, so I don’t really have a technical explanation for people now (I’m still learning all about it myself), but I’m willing to bet we’ll be happy with the end results. These guys are far more critical of their own work than we are of them.

  • eema Nov 09, 2012 

    @nedscott

    To start, i have a HTPC that is also my server with all the material in it, so the problem doesn’t affect me directly. I have a MySQL share at my home (over wifi-N because i can’t wire up all my house) and it works very well even with 1080p material.

    When i discovered about the real potential of uPNP (i always considered it something not useful before reading about it here and in the forum) i thought it was a great technology…
    But noone talked about this problem, you called a “non-problem” and noone told if in the future it will be possible to do something to fix it.
    About the UPnP, the protocol is more than a read only protocol for sure, but it’s not even designed with this purpose. Probably can be adapted very well and produce a great result, but without solving this it’s not actually a real replacement.
    About the problem itself it’s not everyone’s problem, sure… But the external storage is the theorically better solution for a shared material, i talked 2 weeks ago in openelec forum about adding mysql support and they consider every different solution than a network nas a blasphemy xD

  • eema Nov 09, 2012 

    @nedscott

    I think we (users) need an updated wiki page, with pros and cons against mysql and the state, with the list of the implemented feature and the one it will be implemented in the future (for example, the view/not view part is already implemented or not? because the article says yes but someone in the comments says no)

  • nedscott Nov 09, 2012 

    @eema
    I definitely plan on updating all the wiki pages on UPnP, and doing a comparison table for various sharing options.

    As for the watch status sync feature, IIRC, the code is technically in XBMC v12 (Frodo), but is currently broken and won’t be fixed until afterwards. I’ll be sure to make that clear on the wiki as well.

  • MrCrispy Nov 10, 2012 

    Its long been talked about that XBMC should have a server component that can run headless, and true client server support and syncing, without the MySql install and config steps that are beyond the ability of many users. I don’t know much about Upnp either, but if this is the first step towards that goal, it is very welcome.

    Whichever solution is the ‘right’ one should be chosen, it will benefit a LOT of users when XBMC gets this capability.

  • Sjur Nov 11, 2012 

    I already have a linux fileserver running, and I’d love to be able to run XBMC headless on that box…it would really make things easier. I hope it’ll be implemented in the future :)

  • Steini Nov 12, 2012 

    In this thread they have built a headless xbmc server
    http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=132919

    I´m a bit too lazy to try it since I have a space rasperry pi running the library updates, but when some genius will build it for unraid I will jump on that :)

  • l0cus Nov 14, 2012 

    Don’t forget about those of us that have a Windows based server running. My utopia would be a lightweight application that runs as a service that will act as the head end for all the XBMC devices in my house – managing the library and watched status. The key is to run as a service in the background, which I think would benefit users with a server as well as users with a client that hosts the data (similar to Plex, but with all the additional benefits of XBMC).

  • Roelof Nov 14, 2012 

    Could we get a gold release for Christmas? That would be great, Santa!

About XBMC

XBMC is a free and open source media player application developed by the XBMC Foundation, a non-profit technology consortium. XBMC is available for multiple operating-systems and hardware platforms, featuring a 10-foot user interface for use with televisions and remote controls. It allows users to play and view most videos, music, podcasts, and other digital media files from local and network storage media and the internet.