Xbox 360 running XBMC (XBMC for Xbox360?) port possible someday? [Archive]

thor918

2005-05-11, 15:34

xbmc will live forever on my xbox.

though many here are forgetting that xbmc is limited to the xbox's power. as higher and higher quality is demanded, especially with blu-ray on its way, the xbox will soon become obsolete due to it being incapable of playing these super-high quality media.
well not beeing a very smart at that area. i expect that the drives that will take blueray will be in the same interface protocoll as normal dvd drives(atapi). witch means that we can replace the xbox drive with a blueray drive.
the blueray discs will use several codec that would have to be supported to run.
as from what i see mpg4 is allready supported.but not sure about mpg4 high profile.
maby the xbox 1 dosent even have the cpu to display such

and look
they will also include mpeg-2 support for playback of hdtv recordings and dvds.

the blu-ray disc association (bda) is still in the process of finalizing the bd-rom specification, but they have stated that mpeg-4 avc high profile (previously called frext) and microsoft's vc-1 video codec (the proposed smpte standard based on wmv9) will be mandatory. they will also include mpeg-2 support for playback of hdtv recordings and dvds. please note that this simply means that all blu-ray players and recorders will have to support playback of these video codecs, it will still be up to the movie studios to decide which video codec(s) they use for their releases. the bda expects the bd-rom specification to be finished some time in the beginning of 2005.

Caldor

2005-05-15, 10:17

the 360 has security within the silicon of the powerpc cpu itself......do you have millions needed for a custom set of photomasks and the fabrication?

do you really think microsoft will continue to use a symetric cryptopgrahic routine like rs4 used in the 1st gen xbox for the new 360 bios? there wont be any secret keys within the circuitry of the 360 if you ask me. microsoft are usre to use asymetric cryptography at a wild key length for the private key......

Anomaly

2005-05-15, 16:39

hmm so, just so that i can quote you on this later... you don't think the xbox360 will be hacked at all?.

i reckon it will be done inside one month, maximum two.

Hullebulle

2005-05-15, 19:55

i reckon it will be done inside one month, maximum two.
thats bs. even xbox took about 7 months and i guess ms did a better job this time.

Striker

2005-05-15, 21:10

yeah, and see how long it took for the nintendo gamecube
hopefully the modders can take that experience to the box360 platform

Anomaly

2005-05-16, 06:08

i reckon it will be done inside one month, maximum two.
thats bs. even xbox took about 7 months and i guess ms did a better job this time.
7 months? hmmm ok. i give them six months then. you have to remember that the 360 is being brought to market really quickly and is packed with so much stuff that i really don't think they would have had time to make some revolutionary security features. not as much as some posters imagine anyway.

Caldor

2005-05-16, 09:45

does these "predictions" have a basis of science behind them?

are you aware how long it would take to brute force an asymmetric crypto scheme like rsa in a 2048 bit key length? the only reason bunnie was able to do what he did was that microsoft used symmetric cryptography in the xbox....the secret key had to hidden within the xbox itself, and it was inside the southbridge. with asymmetric cryptography the public key is just that, public....in fact the $usd200 000 award to be the first to do that still stands so are you feeling lucky?

and the security measures within the silicon of the cpu itself, how many of you have an electron beam gun and other laboratory equipment to alter the hardwired security routines in the silicon?

im not saying its impossible, im saying it will be exceedingly difficult and it will require a massive financial and time commitment.

Anomaly

2005-05-16, 11:15

no, it won't. all the consoles to date have been hacked indirectly. there are still some folk searching for the key used for signing xbox games - and good luck to them - but there is no point.

bunnie's discovery, while impressive, was not the solution to cracking the xbox. he captured info as it moved in and out of the southbridge. his is not the way that later hackers used to successfully hack the xbox, but i'm sure he provided most of the stimulous.

the xbox360 will not be hacked by brute force. it will be hacked via a software flaw and/or the same type of bonehead open door as the xbox's lpc port.

you know, css is a pretty impressive security method - solved not by brute force, but by some dvd producer creating an incorrectly sign dvd. this will be the same.

this is *microsoft* we are talking about. and when people rush, they screw up.

Gamester17

2005-05-16, 13:17

and the security measures within the silicon of the cpu itself, how many of you have an electron beam gun and other laboratory equipment to alter the hardwired security routines in the silicon?well, team-xecuter, team-xodus, team-smartxx etc. do have access to that (or they will hire someone with the equiment and knowlage) since they got financial gain to win by hacking it first, then there are the 'freelance' hardware-hackers, and electronic-engineers students (with access to university labs) who simple do it for the fun / challange, *...i give it anything from 6-months to a 18-months after the xbox360 can be bought in stores til someone finds a loophole to exploint and commercialize in the form of a modchip, (i doubt anyone here expects the cryptography of the box to be cracked with brute force).

i'm glad to see that microsoft is making the next system more of a media center out of the box:
http://www.eurogamer.net/view_sc....opy.jpg (http://www.eurogamer.net/view_screenshot.php?filter=xbox360&image=assets/articles/a58209/media_tif_jpgcopy.jpg)
not as impressive as xbmc, but it's still damn better than what the original xbox could do out of the box.sounded to me like that will require that you own a microsoft media center 2005 pc in order to use those built-in functions.

kayser9soze

2005-05-19, 06:00

i mean the system will aready be set up with ftp streaming capabilities, so how long can it possibly be before someone finds the exploit.(a few dozen boxes) i do believe microsoft has taken new measure to secure the integrity of it's new age console, but then again even microsoft's biggest money maker "windows" is exploited (thanks to the employees with balls). i do agree that alot of the features mentioned thus far for the xbox 360 resemble ripped off xbmc and xbmc script ideas you guys have helped bring to life, but that only means the next generation of xbmc will be that much better. hopefully ibm didn't give microsoft it's best chip (pray for vulnerable spots). also let's hope that microsoft doesn't install a security program like it did to stop modded boxes from going onto xbox live. i'd hate to find out microsoft is scanning my new box everytime i even load an i.p. address.

the removable hard drive is the one thing i'm interested in to this point, i've seen a few trailers to the games and they seem so so at this point. i really do hope that they integrate higher graphic definitions for more of their games.

i'm already trying to find a way to get the new box before it comes out in the market as i had my xbox and my ps2 before they hit the market. my xbox 1 was 650 2 months before it dropped my ps2 was 500 2 months before it dropped. it's good to know ppl in shipping :lol: nothings better than things that fall off the back of the truck lol.

DonJ

2005-05-22, 01:23

since the xbox360 is backwards compatible (http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/eeeyvyppzlksuzanxq.php) won't that make xbmc work with xbox360 as long as one can execute the binary?

pike

2005-05-22, 02:03

it's oh so fun (but not very creative to speculate).

i predict that since it's powerpc cpu based, after it's been modded, some version of *nix/linux o/s will be ported to xbox360. later maybe support for macosx (a o/s i know absolutely nothing about, except that it started as a *nix port, no?) it just seems like this hardware will be 'the most savvy apple macintosh ever' (bungie must like it, they started on mac, hehe)

since it won't be x86/win32 based, porting our little app will most likely be an enormous task. and it's nothing that will be started by us until the little box been modded, so no need to ask, tia!
in fact, we make no promises whatsoever on an eventual port :)

running an application like ours in emulated mode is nothing that seems worthwhile imo...

ej2095

2005-05-24, 21:00

thought for you all though in theroy when the new console appears. the price of the xbox should drop just like th eplaystation di with the ps2. so would be worth getting a few more cheap xbox just for media center purposes around the home.

pangit

2005-05-25, 03:55

to put it another way, what's the point (in the short/medium term) in porting xbmc across? it's already pretty much perfect imho :d and i don't think the new platform would enable many more features than are currently possible/implemented. (i.e. it doesn't have a tv tuner, which is about the only major feature i would want, to turn it into a tivo).

ok, admittedly xbox 1 will eventually become obselete, but meanwhile the price will drop dramatically and the second hand market will be buoyant, making it a very cheap (and awesome!) media centre solution.

as far as i'm concerned, the longer it takes for the 360 to be cracked the better for me, as when it does the xbmc developers will likely want to make a new version, and cease development/support of the old one!

the only advantage i can see of xbmc on the 360 is for people who own it for the games to have a decent media player, but since i don't fall in to that category (mine is for xbmc exclusively) i have no plans on getting a 360!

manx

2005-05-26, 18:14

deltop

2005-05-26, 19:56

pangit - probably the biggest reason to want xbmc for the 360 is hd content. there isn't much of any today, but that's changing rapidly as we speak. when it's more and more prevalent, you're going to find yourself with hd content that xbmc on the current xbox can't process.
exactly, hd content is probably the major reason why people would love to see an xbox 360 port.

i'm in the uk and although we don't have hd yet it's coming next year. hd is obviously the future. heck i even have quite *a few hd videos myself now even though i can't make use of then fully.

xbmc is a truly wonderful app and i've been using and supporting it since the days of xbmp.

i'm just really hoping we can see a port becuase of hd. it's the one area where xbmc is lacking due to the limitations of the hardware.

of course there are many obsticles to overcome first, not least the development side of it, it's going to be a lot harder to develop software for the 360 due to the platform requirements :( and that's assuming we see the machine itself get hacked any time soon.

deltop

2005-05-26, 20:00

oh and don't forget avc encodes. even when not encoded to hd the xbox will more than likely struggle to playback these.

BritneysPAIRS

2005-05-27, 09:02

for people i mod for they mainly ask 2 things now (bar a few software issues that im trying to sort out now to make it easier for them) is power off/on on remote and quitier. these are solved in new system so these are some more reasons y id like even a direct port of xbmc for xbox 360

Gamester17

2005-05-30, 13:50

again, it is fun to speculate on the future (i predict rocket-packs :lol:) however the xbmc on xbox360 discussion is still moot until someone actually hacked/worked-around or cracked the xbox360 security and a public mod been released for it, ...thus thinking about porting xbmc to xbox360 is more or less point-less (until a such mod comes out), but it will be be a huge task but not impossible (as xbox360 will be kind-of directx/win64-based (http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/ns3988467635.html), plus mplayer/ffmpeg supports powerpc), ...and if microsoft is not just braging about the capabilities of thier upcomming xbox360 xna software development kit (http://www.microsoft.com/xna/) (will work with vs.net 2005 and directx 10 sdk?) then it should make the porting/development transition a little smoother.

MaxStein

2005-10-18, 14:14

hi,

now things are a little closer what are your thoughts - xbmc on the 360?
i know it may be early still but some of you guys who really have your ear to the ground may know something :)

cheers,

max...

chrislee149

2005-10-19, 02:18

the videos part of the 360 will only be capable of running videos from a media center pc, right?

MaxStein

2005-10-19, 11:08

yeah, and vista when it comes out (at least out of the box), plus its not going to do many formats :(

Diggedy

2005-10-24, 09:32

i find it annoying that microsoft have expressed their discontent with users who bought the xbox to mod it for other purposes (including us xbmc users), and have tried to do something of a media center for the 360, yet don't go all the way by letting us play everything we have on our pcs. no divx/xvid support? :rolleyes: please! even bargain basement dvd players can play this these days! my hope for it to play hd mpeg-2 .ts files seems like a pipe dream at this point. all they are doing by omitting features is making it all the more desirable to find a way to hack the new machine and unlock it's true potential!

vaeanu

2005-11-09, 14:48

besides games, i dont believe the 360 (even after it's hacked) will be much better than xbmc... indeed, hd movies from blockbuster are still years away (if ms hd becomes standard...) and the lack of 3.5 hd bay is a big drawback!

joe_user

2005-11-11, 17:27

i would love to see xbmc ported to the xbox360. because, as already mentioned, microsoft will only support their mediacenter and their own codec, which no one cares about.

but it will take a while until a modchip is developed. ok, a few prototypes have been leadked, which gaves the modchip devs a few months of investigation already. but still i think it will take a while. microsoft leared their lesson from the current xbox; security will be much stronger. but let's relax, wait and see and enjoy the current xbmc :)

Asteron

2005-11-11, 18:39

well there is some h264 content that the xbox can't play that well right now. plus working around the 64mb of memory is a bitch. running custom code on the 360 will be quite the challenge since they've built drm right into the die as opposed to sitting in the bios on the board tsop. however there are people who made a lot of money making modchips for the xbox and they have quite a few talented people who crack these things.

Jynks

2005-11-25, 22:23

i think the makers of xbmc should go totaly legit. they have made a incredible bit of software here. one that many people only buy an xbox to use. i know many people that never play games, ranging from kids to parents that use xbmc. personly i find this software to be easly production quality.

why not release it as a fully legit product. i'd buy it and many others would as well. i know that m$ has a media player built into the 360 but i seriously dought that it will in any way rival xbmc. the developers here totaly know wat they are doing. the 360 already has interchangable harddrives, networking, everything it needs for xbmc to run.. without the need to chip it. only if the software was legitimized.

as far as m$ gose, why wouldn't they want such a terrific bit of software with so many users sold for there system. plus it would give these top notch developers some cash for their hard spent time.

mabey there are problems with the source being so public, sharing source with other feeware apps .. namly mplayer.

either way i am counting the time untill the hackers crack the 360 code, for i know that it will be the major reason to upgrade to the 360. i really hope that these guys move the development into the 360.

:bowdown: all hail the xbmc developers :bowdown:

CosyCat

2005-12-27, 22:37

if/when xbox360 is hacked like the xbox how hard is going to be to port xbmc to xbox360? and will it be ported to the 360?

CosyCat

2005-12-27, 22:37

if/when xbox360 is hacked like the xbox how hard is going to be to port xbmc to xbox360? and will it be ported to the 360?

MaxStein

2005-12-28, 16:56

there could be some potential good news (well maybe not for the programming guys who've got alot of work to do :o), but its looking like the xbox360 might not need modding to get things going.
take a look at this. (http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/eefvuvkyvauojcgcce.php)
as well as that little gem theres the news about the demo dvds...

CosyCat

2005-12-28, 19:01

nice.. but i don´t think microsoft will let us play all the formats/filetypes xbmc can play like divx/xvid & ogg/flac.

MaxStein

2005-12-28, 19:06

i don't see why, if they're not producing the product themselves then they can't get too much flack for it, and besides just because divx is often used with copied movies doesn't mean its the only thing that its used for, and on top of that there are plenty of dvd/divx players out there so the format itself can't be too much of a legal minefield.

DonJ

2006-03-15, 21:15

hi,

lets assume that someday it would be possible to write xbmc for xbox360 and u feel like doing so.
what would u do different when writing most of the app from scratch and how would the increased hardware performence benefit xbmc?

pike

2006-03-15, 22:09

think thats a little hard to answer without:

a devkit
a modded 360
and last but not least: some time

personally i think ps3 seems more suited hardwarewise (by the little we know about it)

elupus

2006-03-15, 22:44

we probably wouldn't write entire app from scratch.. we would go through code and remove any dependencies on current xbox hardware and add what is needed for the xbox360..

one bigg hurdle i can see is that there would be big problems getting some of our codecs to work as they are dll's compiled for x86 hardware.

thou i'm sceptic that the xbox360 ever will hacked to any similar extent as as current xbox. i agree with pike there, it might actually be better to port to ps3.. for one, it will run linux from the box..

drakethegreat

2006-03-16, 22:14

i was read an article on digg that talked about the xbox360 having a possible exploit in the dvd firmware which will allow for the usage of homebrew firmware.

what wasn't clear from this article was whether or not it would allow for unsigned code because utlimately the article was acting as if there is no chance to run unsigned code without modifying hardware but then how would it be possible to even run homebrewed firmware if it wasn't signed?

could someone please enlighten me and the other curious people who know litte to nothing about the 360 nor own an xbox 360.

the article also talked about how microsoft would likely be able to patch it and fix it. this makes me wonder why someone went through all the effort to find an exploit just to submit it to microsoft... who searches around the dvd firmware for buffer overflows to submit them to microsoft's insanely long bug fix process? i guess i just expected that if someone found a flaw they would use it to create homebrew software...

expert input most definitely requested

:)

Hullebulle

2006-03-17, 03:57

its a homebrew firmware for the dvd drive only.
it will trick the media check (xbox 360 tests if it is a pressed or burned disk by reading some data from the disk you are not able to copy) by sending the data the 360 expects to get from the dvd even tho its a burned disk without that bit of data.

that means that you are still not able to run any homebrew code cause it isn't signed (which will still be checked).

drakethegreat

2006-03-17, 19:35

CosyCat

2006-03-17, 20:58

i agree with pike there, it might actually be better to port to ps3.. for one, it will run linux from the box..

is sony going to let you run linux on the ps3?!

Asteron

2006-03-18, 21:32

ok that makes a lot more sense. i guess the article did a horrible job of explaining what it was (as do most mainstream articles...). seems like there are very few uses like maybe being able to watch burned dvds or put in burned audio cds but thats about it.
it will allow you to play a backup/pirated game as well. the only difference between a game disc and a burned copy of that disc is the 'media flag' on the dvd. the firmware will trick the 360 into thinking the burned media is game media. since the executables on the burned disc are signed (just like the game disc) the 360 will play them.

it might be possible to find an exploit similar to the saved game / font exploits to play homebrew (unsigned) code using this. data files like textures/fonts/movies are still unsigned and can be modified. however the security built into the x360 cpu might prevent this. unlike the x360, in the xbox all the security would just prevent the code from reaching the cpu.

LiquidIce629

2006-03-21, 16:16

microsoft releases xna development kit
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060320-6420.html

this should be helpful getting xbmc running on the 360. i'm downloading it now.

is there already another sourceforge project developing the codebase to port this over to xna, or are you waiting for xbmc 2.0 to be released before you fork it?

it's only a matter of time before it is cracked, they are getting closer. might as well be prepared right?

simply the ability to play videos from any stream, file, or url without a media center pc would make my 360 so much more useful to me. right now it sits there turned off collecting dust while i wait for ms to release something good for it.

pike

2006-03-21, 21:22

no we will not waste energy on this until 360 is modded, and maybe not even then...

Asteron

2006-03-22, 04:12

out of curiosity, how much of the code base is really xbox-specific?

all the system information stuff, the fat-x library, the controller keyboard mouse karaoke i/o, the mplayer dll's, the custom rendering shaders, i would guess mplayer itself has asm in some sections?... xpr fonts textures...

im sure i'm missing alot... maybe the network layer? visualizations /screensavers would need to be recompiled...

most of the directx stuff should be the same i would think...
does mplayer have multi-core support?

drakethegreat

2006-03-22, 20:47

right now people also have to consider the fact that there are a lot more xboxes out there then xbox 360s. i almost wonder if there is as many hacked xboxes as there are xbox 360s but if that is true probably only for the short term. yet ultimately it just doesn't seem logical to even consider 360 development until its atleast hacked. the xbox 360 costs a lot more and already has media capabilities which seems to suggest that xbmc stick to the xbox since its a cheap alternative to buying the expensive 360.

Chap

2006-05-15, 22:18

now that the 360 has a firmware hack, is there any chance of seeing a version of xbmc running on it? perhaps even if it ran from a cd or dvd as opposed to the hard drive, that would be nice. it would be interesting if the backwards compatability of the 360 would allow xbmc to run.

B4tm4n

2006-05-15, 22:29

that firmware hack doesn`t allow unsigned programs to run on the 360.
it only allows raw/unmodified dumps, of games from the same *region as your console, to run.

Livin

2006-08-15, 01:37

MS to offer Xbox 360 programming tool for amateurs (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/08/14/ms_opens_xbox360_games_devt)

... not that the coders here are amateurs... quite the opposite! :grin:

I'm have no idea if these tools will allow the porting of XBMC but I'm hoping it will. :;):

Gamester17

2006-08-15, 18:24

The free BETA version of XNA that should come out in the end of August 2006 will only support creation of Windows games/applications, we will have to have to wait for the retail version which should come out in November or December 2006 (and then also join the $99 annual-fee "creators club") to be able to compile games/applications for the Xbox360.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/xna/faq/
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=711831#post711831

And like I assumed, one will have to have a Windows PC running the XNA framework up-and-running while using the game/application on the Xbox360, (the PC with XNA must be connected to the Xbox360 via a local non-routed network), ...so no one will be able just install XNA, load the game/application and then uninstall XNA, ...at least not in the inital non-BETA release:Q: How exactly can I share my 360 game to other 360 users? Will my game only be available to people with the XNA "Creators Club" subscription? Will it be available to all 360 users that have an Xbox Live account?
A: There is currently no supported way to share binaries on the Xbox 360. Currently, there are four requirements that must be met in order to share a game targeting Xbox 360 which is developed with XNA Game Studio Express.
1. The individual you are planning to share the game with must be logged in to Xbox Live and have an active subscription to the XNA Creators Club
2. The receiving user must have downloaded the XNA Framework runtime environment for the Xbox 360
3. The receiving user must have XNA Game Studio Express installed on their own development PC
4. The game project, including all source and content assets, must be shared with the receiving user. The receiving user then compiles and deploys the game to their Xbox 360.Q: How exactly will I be able to run a game built with XNA Game Studio Express on my Xbox 360?
A: On Windows, you'll be able to develop, test and distribute software created with XNA Game Studio Express for free. When you sign up for the nominally priced annual subscription to XNA Game Studio Express for Xbox 360, you'll be able to write a game on Windows, then send it to your Xbox 360 to test and enjoy. Eventually, you'll be able to distribute that code to other Xbox 360s, opening up a unique publishing avenue which will democratize game development on consoles.
You can share your games to anyone else in the creator's club. Just send the XNA project to them in email, on a memory key, put it up on your site for download, whatever. They load it up on their PC in their copy of XNA Game Studio Express, and send it to their Xbox.The goal is that, in the future, they'll have a channel for people who are not members of the creator's club to download and play the homebrew games. Like, there's Live Aracade, and there will be Creator's Arcade or some such. Anyone in the creator's club would theoretically be able to submit to Creator's Arcade and MS would examine it to make sure it's not really a pirate game or won't harm your Xbox, then they put it up for everyone to download and check out. That aspect of it is a little further out (think next year) and they're still working on details like ownership and copyright, how they'll examine submissions for safety, etc.
So nor will the initial non-BETA release allow you to run a ported version of XBMC. Oh well, I guess it is a good beginning? :oo:
...I just hope that real modchips for the Xbox360 that can run unsigned code nativly without XNA will come out eventually :sniffle:

More information is available on Xbox-Scene.com for those who are interested in reading futher:
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEVVVkAukVWdcjTzff.php
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEVVyEyuAACwNoiWVz.php

SleepyP

2006-08-15, 20:15

it seems to me that this whole XNA thing is a big new avenue of attack for hackers attempting to get unsigned code running on the 360. in the official writeup i saw this

"Q: Why isn't there any Xbox 360 support in the beta?
A: Microsoft does not release beta software on the Xbox 360 for security reasons. Thanks to the design and implementation of the XNA Framework on both Windows and Xbox 360 however, games developed using the XNA Game Studio Express beta starting August 30th will be easily adapted to run against the Xbox 360 retail console upon availability of the finished tools later this holiday."

given MS's track record with this sort of thing, i suspect this will be the 360's undoing :)

Gamester17

2006-08-23, 18:39

From a news post on xbox-scene.com (http://www.xbox-scene.com/):From David Weller's Blog (http://letskilldave.com/archive/2006/08/19/XNA_3A00_-What_2700_s-free-and-what-isn_2700_t_3F00_.aspx) (Community Manager at Microsoft's Game Technology Group):

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what is coming with XNA and what the $99 "fee" is, so I wanted to (attempt to) clarify the confusion.

XNA, as a term, refers to a family of products and services. We announced two major pieces of the family at this week's Gamefest: The XNA Framework and XNA Game Studio Express (GSE for short).

Let's start with XNA GSE. It's the tool that helps you build and test games, and runs on Windows. This is what will be available as a beta release on August 30th.

Then we have the XNA Framework. Technically, there's two pieces to the XNA Framework:
1. the libraries (or assemblies in our case), and
2. the runtime.

The XNA Framework libraries for both platforms are the same, which is how we enable you to write games that work on both platforms. Those libraries (for Windows) will be delivered along with XNA Game Studio Express on August 30th.

Now, about the runtimes. In the case of Windows, we just use the standard .NET 2.0 runtime. Easy as that.

For the Xbox 360, we created a custom runtime, based on the .NET Compact Framework. This runtime must be downloaded/installed on your Xbox 360 before you can run an XNA-based game on it. Getting the Xbox 360 runtime requires a subscription to the XNA Creators Club, and it won't be available until XNA Game Studio Express hits initial (1.0) release during this holiday season.

Right now, the $99 annual subscription cost (or $49 for 4 months) of the XNA Creators Club covers the cost of downloading and providing security servicing/updates to the runtime. We are investigating ways to make the subscription more valuable, and will have more details as we get closer to initial launch date for the subscription service.

So, repeat after me:
* Building games using XNA Game Studio Express costs nothing on Windows. Building games using XNA Game Studio Express costs nothing on Windows.
* Deploying games on the Xbox 360 requires a membership in the Xbox Creators Club. Deploying games on the Xbox 360 requires a membership in the Xbox Creators Club.

Read More: David Weller's Blog (http://letskilldave.com/archive/2006/08/19/XNA_3A00_-What_2700_s-free-and-what-isn_2700_t_3F00_.aspx)

jdollah

2006-08-30, 13:45

From what I understand, Microsoft has release an SDK to create Xbox360 games called XNA. From what I get out of it sounds like you can pay a annual fee and via xboxlive, will authenticate your subscription and allow you to run your own homebrew. It even supports c# on the 360 via a tweaked CFx 2.0

If this is correct, is there a possibility of porting XBMC to the 360 and do it legitly? Does anyone know any more details about it?

Gamester17

2006-08-30, 14:22

I've aldready posted about this here (link) (http://forum.xboxmediacenter.com/showthread.php?t=9299&page=7) and for your information the BETA version of XNA that released later today is for Windows only, (not for Xbox360, the initial BETA version that will support the Xbox360 will not be release until December 2003 at the earliest). And by the way, the XNA currently only supports C# for the .NET Framework 2.0, it doesn't support C or C++ as far as I can tell, (but maybe C/C++ could be used in libraries or DLLs like C is used in XBMC in some libraries and DLLs). Also the XNA only compatible with Visual C# Express, and not Visual Studio 2005 which we use for XBMC.

I also posted this in this other topic-thread (http://forum.xboxmediacenter.com/showthread.php?t=19144):I'm not a programmer/developer myself so maybe this is based of wrong information but please bare with me. The XNA Framework for Windows (http://forum.xboxmediacenter.com/showthread.php?t=9299&page=7) is coming out very soon (at least the first BETA version) and XBMC could probebely be ported to Win32 (Microsoft Windows Operating-Systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows)) relativly quick and easily by one or more skilled developer using that. If so then that ported version should be able to run on any Windows Operating-System that supports the .NET Framework 2.0 runtime-enviroment (http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframework/) (like Windows XP, Windows XP Embedded (http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/), and Windows CE 6.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/virtuallabs/windowsce/)), and run on all hardware that those Windows Operating-Systems supports. Now Windows Operating-Systems usually only run on x86 processor/hardware-platforms, however Windows CE 6.0 supports ARM, MIPS and SH4 processors/platforms as well. Though Windows CE 6.0 does not support as many device drivers as Windows XP and Windows XP Embedded does, and Windows CE 6.0 does only support the Windows .NET Compact Framework 2.0, however that happens to be the same Compact Framework that will run on the Xbox360 when the XNA Framework for Xbox360 (http://forum.xboxmediacenter.com/showthread.php?t=9299&page=7) is released in December this year, ...thus possible making it easier to first port XBMC to Windows using the XNA and then only port that version to the Xbox360 when the XNA for it comes out).

Porting XBMC to Windows (with the XNA) might make a few end-users whine and moan as they have will to pay for the Windows Operating-System (if they want to stay legal), but it would be SO MUCH easier for programmer/developer to do that then to try to port XBMC to Linux, PS3 or any other platform, as XBMC GUI code so heavily relies on the DirectX API (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX) to work, (which both the mentioned Windows Operating-Systems and the Xbox360 supports).

As for the hardware, I always though the VIA EPIA MINI-ITX Motherboards Series (http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/) would make a great hardware platform for a Windows-based HTPC media center, (or as a dedicated stand-alone PVR/DVR media-player). The processors on the VIA EPIA mainboards might not be that fast processors but the latest incarnation of built-in graphic-chips on them supports decoding of MPEG-4 ASP and AVC (H.264) with the GPU at High-Definition resolutions, also with their embedded platform (http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/embedded/) being so small in size (making fit in virtualy any casing) and a huge community behind it makes it very attractive to open source developers.

PS! All said and done I like to end this 'rant' by saying that I personaly think the original Xbox still has a few great years left it in it,
Used Xboxes are cheap and they are good enough for all Standard- Definition resolutions, (with the exception of H.264/AVC video).

spiff

2006-08-30, 15:06

iow; never gonna happen.

jgawera

2006-08-30, 16:16

But, if it does happen, it sounds like it'll automatically run on both PC and xbox360 which would be nice :)

elupus

2006-08-31, 00:26

media portal will be ported way before us thou.. their codebase is c#

Gamester17

2006-08-31, 12:44

FYI, XNA Game Studio Express first public BETA (for Windows only!) has now been released, this is from Microsoft's press release:"Microsoft today released the public beta of XNA Game Studio Express, the pioneering technology designed to open up game development to new audiences, including hobbyists, students and independent developers, in the hopes of injecting a shot of creativity into the electronic entertainment industry.

Novice game creators can download the tool today from http://msdn.microsoft.com/xna to develop games for Windows XP and Windows Vista, at no charge. The games built on Windows can be migrated to the Xbox 360 console system starting this holiday season as part of the XNA Creators Club subscription for $99 a year, or a four-month trial cost of $49, opening up retail console game development to anyone for the first time.

Since the announcement of XNA Game Studio Express' upcoming availability on August 14, the public response has been overwhelming - more than 100 schools have requested information on how they can incorporate XNA Game Studio Express into their curricula and the breakthrough news has generated millions of hits on Internet search engines.

As one of nearly 20 leading universities worldwide incorporating XNA Game Studio Express into their curricula, including Southern Methodist University's Guildhall and the University of Southern California's GamePipe, Microsoft announced additional support from DigiPen Institute of Technology in Redmond, Washington, a leader in the field of digital interactive entertainment education. Through its ProjectFUN software running on XNA Game Studio Express and summer workshops starting in 2007, DigiPen will bring Xbox 360 console game development for the first time ever to thousands of children ages 10 through 16.

"XNA Game Studio Express is an incredibly accessible tool for making games for Microsoft's game platforms and will provide our university students with modern tools and console development experience," said Claude Comair, founder and chairman of the board at DigiPen Institute of Technology. "And now with our ProjectFun for XNA Game Studio Express, we're eager to extend our educational offerings on Windows and Xbox 360 to include young children."

In conjunction with today's release of the XNA Game Studio Express beta, XNA partner GarageGames will begin enrollment for its Torque X beta program which can be accessed via http://msdn.microsoft.com/xna. Torque X includes both Torque Game Builder and a version of the Torque Shader Engine which have both been developed in conjunction with XNA Game Studio Express, allowing budding game developers to use drag and drop tools to easily create great games. The final version of Torque X will be released this holiday.

The final version of XNA Game Studio Express and the XNA Creators Club for building and distributing games on the Xbox 360 will launch simultaneously this holiday. XNA Game Studio Professional will be available in spring 2007"

Good things to know BEFORE you install XNA Game Studio Express (XNA GSE (http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/xna/gse/)), the information here mostly gathered from David Weller's blog (http://letskilldave.com/default.aspx)*:
- XNA GSE (Game Studio Express) will ONLY run on Microsoft Windows XP (32-bit) with Service Pack 2.
- Before you install XNA GSE (Game Studio Express) you must first uninstall "SQL Server 2005" and the ".NET Framework 2.0"
- XNA GSE (Game Studio Express) can co-exist on the same machine as Visual Studio 2005, but you can't use GSE from it, as this GSE BETA is only compatible with Visual C# Express.
- Download and install Visual C# Express (http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualcsharp/default.aspx) (without it XNA GSE will refuse to install)
- Download and install the latest DirectX SDK (http://msdn.com/directx/sdk) (only required if want to use XACT to author/modify your audio, otherwise the latest runtime (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=2DA43D38-DB71-4C1B-BC6A-9B6652CD92A3&displaylang=en) is enough)
- Go to http://connect.microsoft.com and sign up for the XNA Game Studio Express Beta program (under Available Connections"), that way you can get support/help, search for exisiting issues/questions (https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/default.aspx?SiteID=226), and submit bugs or feature suggestions (https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/CreateFeedback.aspx?SiteID=226)), read this for more information (http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=682902&SiteID=1).

* David Weller is the "Community Manager" at Microsoft's Game Technology Group.

ashlar

2006-08-31, 14:05

iow; never gonna happen.I frankly don't understand this. Xbox hardware has ceased production, consoles break and sooner or later there won't be Xbox'es available to run your software. It might be in two years, it might be in four, but I think there's no denying it will become progressively harder to become users of XBMC.

There's no plan for a Windows port (Media Portal is a different beast, IMHO inferior to what XBMC offers, save for the PVR functions which are not comparable for obvious reasons), no plan for a PS3 version and no plan for a Xbox360 version. Are you saying that it's your intention to let this GREAT piece of software die a slow death?

Or are you waiting for 360 to be cracked? Because that would frankly surprise me. The XNA thing would allow XBMC to become a totally legit software, an achievement that, I feel, would rightly give you merit for what you've done here (which is A LOT).

All of the above with no offense or anything, just genuinely curious about what I feel being a great piece of coding.

spiff

2006-08-31, 14:10

Gamester17

2006-08-31, 15:58

XBMC is open source so anyone can do the work as long as they comply with the GLP the code it is licensed under, it doesn't have to be Team-XBMC who ports it. True XBMC source code is mainly C/C++ so it would not be something you do over a weekend, but it would be much easier than to port it to Linux or PlayStation, as XBMC depends so heavely on DirectX.
I frankly don't understand this. Xbox hardware has ceased production, consoles break and sooner or later there won't be Xbox'es available to run your software. It might be in two years, it might be in four, but I think there's no denying it will become progressively harder to become users of XBMC.I just like to add that I totaly disagree with that argument, the Xbox homebrew scene/community is HUGE, (much larger than the Sega Dreamcast scene and that is still going strong I hear), and according to a Microsoft announcement on the 10th May 2006, over 24million Xbox consoles have been sold worldwide. As other people get tired of their 'old' Xboxes more are becomig available on the used market MAKING IT EASIER to get hold of fully working consoles, for less and less as each year goes by. Which is great for us 'modders' that know the potential it still has, with XBMC. I for one am not getting rid of my Xboxes, and everyone I know who know about XBMC are also getting more than just one Xbox. Sure I too would love to have XBMC on Xbox360 or a PC just to be able to playback HDTV movies, but on the other hand I can't afford a HDTV display (yet) nor it it easy to get hold of HDTV movies.

ashlar

2006-08-31, 16:11

b) even if we did it, do you really think ms would let us distribute it through their service? hint; ip violationshmmm... ip violations of what? I dumbly can't recognize the hint... sorry! :blush:

ashlar

2006-08-31, 16:26

I just like to add that I totaly disagree with that argument, the Xbox homebrew scene/community is HUGE, (much larger than the Sega Dreamcast scene and that is still going strong I hear), and according to a Microsoft announcement on the 10th May 2006, over 24million Xbox consoles have been sold worldwide. As other people get tired of their 'old' Xboxes more are becomig available on the used market MAKING IT EASIER to get hold of fully working consoles, for less and less as each year goes by. Which is great for us 'modders' that know the potential it still has, with XBMC. I for one am not getting rid of my Xboxes, and everyone I know who know about XBMC are also getting more than just one Xbox.You might be right in the short run. In the long run this view doesn't hold a candle to reality... I repeat, consoles break down and they don't get produced anymore. As time goes by, XBMC is going to become ever more a niche product, which I feel would be sad, given its quality. Do you really want XBMC to be relegated in a somewhat larger niche than Dreamcast? :shocked:

Furthermore, dismissing HDTV playback might make sense today, but again... what about in a couple of years?

I wish to stress that my point of view is strictly out of love for what you've done. There's *nothing* that touches XBMC on the market for what it can do.

spiff

2006-09-01, 13:20

ashlar

2006-09-04, 17:43

e.g. a license for mp3 costs $90,000. since msft charges money for distribution using this thing, they can't distribute anything that break ip laws.

oh, and other formats are way more expensive....

finally, i really don't get what you are on about. it's not like we have said 'we won't port it'. we just can't port it using this c#.net based tool. as it wouldn't be a port, it would have to be a rewrite....Hi spiff, I'm just trying to understand what the team is considering for the future. That's it. Nothing more.

And, specifically, nothing against you, the rest of the team or any decision you might take. It's *your* project, you donated it freely to the public and for this you'll always have my sincere admiration and gratitude. I can only wish you a continued success for it and that's why I'm asking about future developments beyond current XB hardware.

Peace. :grin:

drakethegreat

2006-09-07, 08:27

ashlar

2006-09-07, 16:28

Just for the record my NES still works after 2 decades! Not to say the Xbox will but hey if you treat your shit right it continues to work! I prefer a 200- dollar media center over a 400+ one. Just to say, the homebrew Xbox community is STRONG and its the biggest homebrew community as far as I know. At the moment there is nothing better to port XBMC to and its not worth the effort because anything else costs more anyways.I take strong exception to this. The NES had *no* moving parts and it was a simpler machine by an order (or more) of magnitude. Its processor produced pretty much zero heat, the same for the video chip. Compare and contrast with a machine that has a DVD-Drive (you can substitute it), an hard drive with a controller for it, a processor that emits substantial heat, a GPU that does the same.
Face it, sooner or later XBMC *will have* to migrate somewhere else. I'd prefer sooner, you'd prefer later. I have clear reasons for preferring sooner (HD contents playback), developers have clear reasons for wanting to wait for the ideal solution (I agree with them on this, now that I understand). What I fail to understand is other users' protectiveness of XBMC on standard Xbox. It's not that by developing a version for a more powerful platform your Xbox would instantly vanish in a cloud of smoke... :oo:

PS I treat my shit with maniacal care, probably even too much! ;)

drakethegreat

2006-09-15, 08:59

Ok so obviously the Nintendo is not the xbox. The point remains that even so I have a generation 1.0 Xbox and have had zero problems with it. You are correct it WILL DIE and there is no doubt about that. However ashlar, you missed the most important statement in my post. THERE IS NOTHING BETTER. The PS3 is not practical because its not even out yet and its more expensive then custom built media centers. So all in all it would make for the most expensive media center option that has no tuner included anyways. Same goes for the 360, while being slightly cheaper, its still not a great option.

Everyone keeps pushing this crap but has real good ideas of what to port it to. As every developer has seemed to have said at some point as well, XBMC is xbox code and therefore relies on Direct X. Non programmers don't understand but porting this to anything Linux based is just not going to happen. The only real porting options at the moment seem to be a PC or the 360. Both of which are not really better options. The xbox for what i have said and the PC port has already been done with not much luck.

People can continue to pound this issue into the ground but ultimately its up to the developers on what they think they can and what they want to do. There's no money to be made here so porting it is asking a lot of people to put in a lot of energy on something that might not even make it.

Sojurn

2006-10-06, 19:05

XNA doesn't allow you to use the network in your games... To be honest I can't imagine they will ever allow it, Ironically, That could be down to xbmc, The last thing they want is such applications undermining their Media Center, And XBMC on 360 would definitely undermine windows media center. I can't think of any application they would be more afraid of, And would not be surprised if that is the reason for the XNA restrictions.

Sojurn

2006-10-13, 13:12

a) xbmc is written mainly in c/c++ - we would have to port it (and possibly all the libraries we use) to another language to use it with this thing
b) even if we did it, do you really think ms would let us distribute it through their service? hint; ip violations

Although Media Portal built on C# so it would seem that the majority of that work is already done.

Seeing as Media Portal has it's roots in XBMC, and Media Portal is open source, It would be interesting if somebody could try their hand at adapting this to XNA.

spiff

2006-10-14, 18:17

you guys do know that the xna doesnt allow the user to access the network, rite?

its a utterly useless piece of hype from the looks

ashlar

2006-10-14, 21:25

you guys do know that the xna doesnt allow the user to access the network, rite?

its a utterly useless piece of hype from the looksHow hard would it be to port XBMC directly to PC, then. I mean the real one, I know all about Media Portal and don't find it up to par.

nate12o6

2006-12-03, 21:07

How hard would it be to port xbmc to 360 being that the 360 has backwards compatability? Or does that not even matter?

Just currious. Thanks

jiz_king

2006-12-05, 21:34

Right now it's impossible.

The 360 can only run signed code.

El Piranna

2006-12-07, 04:22

Right now it's impossible.

The 360 can only run signed code.

You can re-flash DVD unit to allow run non-signed code... It's not easy and it's dangerous, but it's possible.

SleepyP

2006-12-07, 09:05

100% incorrect, El Piranna...

Jabbah

2006-12-07, 16:12

Just to increase the knowledge base slightly :)

The DVD hack allows you to run backups of signed code. eg you have a game that you can copy onto another DVD but it will not run until you hack the DVD firmware as there is a little bit that tells the drive what type of media the code is allowed to be executed off. As SleepyP said, nothing to do with running unsigned code.

pko66

2006-12-12, 13:18

How hard would it be to port xbmc to 360 being that the 360 has backwards compatability? Or does that not even matter?

Just currious. Thanks

Perhaps I am completely misunderstood the posible uses of this, but shouldn't that XNA thing allow an X360MC?

I mean, this:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/dec06/12-11XNAGSECreatorsPR.mspx

:rolleyes: :confused2:

spiff

2006-12-12, 13:37

no.

El Piranna

2006-12-12, 16:41

It's not posibble? It's said, you can make "backups" with the DVD hack but you can't run unsignned code? I didn't know it...

spiff

2006-12-12, 18:50

xbmc is written in c++.

xna is c# only and does not allow network access

pc2099

2006-12-31, 15:52

Well all this is a major bummer - so can anyone forsee a workaround or way xbmc or a similar app could be written for 360? All of which would be unessesary if M$ didnt screw everyone and only allow you to stream wmv crap. At this stage for xbmc apps on next gen consoles the phony PS3 is looking the better bet as it allows linux...but shelling out $600...i dont know about that.

ultrabrutal

2006-12-31, 16:52

You can stream just about anything. Just needs to be transcoded on the fly.

Also what's wrong with XBMC on Xbox1? ;)

znelbok

2007-01-03, 12:39

You can stream just about anything. Just needs to be transcoded on the fly.

Also what's wrong with XBMC on Xbox1? ;)

No HDMI/DVI.

I just purchased a new TV and want to use HDMI. There are other boxes out there now that do the same (although poorly in comparison) that I would deerly love to see XBMC run on - may even give the developers a chance to make some money out of their hard work.

Mick

ultrabrutal

2007-01-03, 16:08

The Xbox360 doesn't have DVI/HDMI either? Actually they both use Component. Only difference is that Xbox360 supports(?) 1080p where Xbox1 only supports 1080i. I bet you will notice that XBMC with 720p component output outperforms your stateoftheart dvd player using hdmi and 480p...

XBMC uses alot of open source. You cannot sell it afaik, only charge for support for it. Read the license agreements

will3279

2007-01-08, 21:02

I have several modded original Xbox's-but had never bothered to hook them up to my Plasma display using the original Xbox HD adapter. Bought a 42" LCD for my bedroom TV over Christmas and hooked it in my rec room while I modified the built-in book-shelves in the bedroom. I am amazed at the quality of the original xbox and XBMC on the LCD TV using the HD settings with the original HD Xbox component video cables & audio digitally connected to my receiver.

I now also have a new Xbox 360-unmodded. The Xbox 360 using HD cables (component) was awful, the straight AVI connection was actually better. The best input in terms of quality on the 360 was through the VGA connection to the LCD TV set at the highest possible supported resolution-1280x768.
For some unknown reason the component video was distorted using the Xbox 360 HD cable.
My cable set-top box uses the only HDMI connection on this new HDTV & I'm not sure the quality on the HD channels was that much different from the quality of the HD component connection to the old xbox.
Quality of display depends on a number of factors-HDMI or DVI may not necessarily give you the best picture over component video-it depends on how the particular interface works with your particular HDTV.

Certainly XBMC at 720p gives an awesome display-better than the DVD resolution that I have been content with for years. I'm not sure as to the future-but right now a modded original Xbox #1 using XBMC is certainly a viable alternative to a Media Center PC & Xbox 360.

P.S. I now have the new Xbox HD-DVD player (still in the box)-as I want to see for myself the difference in quality between 720p and 1080p.

I also have used a 2005 Media Center computer for 2 years-using as a music server-certainly not convinced that it is that much better-if at all-over XBMC.

dogk1cker

2007-01-10, 07:10

Girls, sorry but I've had my head in the sand box in the back yard. What's the latest on beating the security of the XBOX 360?

I just got a 46" LCD HDTV (gloat!) and I wanna see at least 720P! I hope you programmer geeks can find us a newer alternative HW solution for XBMC, soon! I LOVE XBMC!! I have 5 Xbox's in my house all with XBMC.

My petty 2 cents says forget a computer solution. Don't wanna deal with HD video card config and driver compatibility not to mention the rest of the HW.

Dogk1cker
"watch it, or I'll come over and kick your dog!"

SleepyP

2007-01-10, 08:37

it should be obvious, but the Xbox 360 has not been hacked in any substantial way yet. The media detection scheme on the DVD drive has been successfully hacked, so if you are able to patch your DVD drive and then copy, patch, and burn games, you can play burned copies of games the same as originals. That is all.

anywonder

2007-01-10, 09:39

It's worth noting that the Xbox 360 is like a prototype of the "trusted/treacherous computing" initiativem, prob MS's first consumer foray in that area (other than vista). Hypervisor, TPM, etc...

LRa

2007-01-25, 12:36

If xbmc would ever be ported to xbox360, what advantages will it give over the current xbmc?

p.s. I don't have an xbox360!

Loto_Bak

2007-01-25, 20:03

way more ram (64meg vs 512meg)
way more processing power (1x 733 celeron vs 3x 3.2 PPC cores)
more mature and featurefull xdk

problems are
new architecture (x64 vs PowerPC)
processor supports in order execution only
ITS NOT HACKED (YET?)

trejkaz

2007-02-12, 03:17

ITS NOT HACKED (YET?)

It is now. :-)

Still won't help with the whole x86 vs. ppc problem. Although mplayer itself should already work on the new platform there will surely be issues with its video output which will require yet one more driver to be written. :-/

Feels like it would be easier to start a new project from scratch... starting with getting mplayer working, adding simple directory browsing and working from there.

OhYa

2007-03-05, 00:09

I would love to hear from an actuall XBMC Rep on this topic.

Are you guys working on this?

pike

2007-03-05, 03:31

There's nothing to work on until a proper modchip is available, and Team XBMC isn't privvy to such information (I guess I would say this even if we we're, but we're not, honest)

thespecialist

2007-03-14, 04:42

Hmmm... I had hoped u guys were already far with porting it to the 360 :) For me personally it's one of the main reasons to work on the kernel hacking, to get XBMC running on my 360, I just love XBMC, hehe.

Anyway, why wait for a modchip ? U can start porting/testing it already, right ?

Anyway, keep up the good work,

TS

Asteron

2007-03-14, 05:37

Heh that was a nice try but when U type like a 14-year-old girl I somehow doubt U R TheSpecialist...

Although you did get the " ?" construction right...

Maybe I owe you an apology? Doubt it.

raid517

2007-04-01, 07:33

Hi, is it possible perhaps to use the same King Kong shaders exploit for the Xbox 360 that enables the 360 to run Linux to run XBMC in Xbox 1 emulated mode?

Just curious if this is ever likely to happen?

I wouldn't care less about Xbox 360 games, or XBox live if this was possible.

All I would be interested in is using the extended power of the XBox 360 to run as a very powerfu platform for XBMC.

anoobie

2007-04-01, 07:37

yes

raid517

2007-04-02, 03:58

That isn't much of an answer.

Sorry, does anyone who actually knows anything have anything useful or interesting to say about this?

Thanks.

aross6

2007-04-02, 18:34

I have a Xbox 360 and just yesterday bought a Xbox 1 solely for XBMC. With the 360 I had to convert my videos from their native format and resolution to .wmv's and 1920x1080 or 960x540 (exactly 1/2 of 1080i... it maintains the integrity of the proportions). With XBMC the Xbox 1 can output at 1080i, plays files in their native format, and automatically upscales it for you!

Hence the real question is: Why would you even consider using the 360's media functions?

mjsmyth

2007-04-02, 19:40

wow,

I guess you did not read his post at all.

What he basically asked was: Is it possible to use a game exploit to install and run XBMC on the 360... the reason for doing so is the incresed power of the console.

If it was possible, and I don't know if it is or not as I heard nothing of linus on the 360 using King Kong, then there would be no need to convert any media files.

Anyway, to Raid 517, I don't know is the simple answer. Someone else here may. I owuld imagine though that someone somewhere maybe trying. We will hear soon enough.

mj

raid517

2007-04-03, 15:08

@aross6

Every forum should have a bury comment feature like Digg.

Anyway clearly the reason XBMC on the 360 would be neat would be because of the increased power of the 360. There is still a lot of HD content that can't be played by the old XBox 1. So the 360 is potentially just a much more powerful and much more usable platform.

I have no idea what all these people who hate talk about hacking consoles to do things they are not supposed to do are doing on forums like these?

SleepyP

2007-04-04, 02:46

It is too soon to be asking about this. You will probably have to wait a few months at the very least. Pandora's box (unsigned code running on the 360) has been opened, and that will make everything else a lot easier, but we're not yet even close to kind of possiblities that exist on the original Xbox. Does anyone know if a 360 SDK has been leaked yet?

ashlar

2007-04-05, 20:18

Does anyone know if a 360 SDK has been leaked yet?I remember reading on Xbox-Scene that if you knew where to look, then yes: the SDK was available.

daclina

2007-11-29, 08:37

Not sure if there are any discussions on this already, so I will post this anyway.

I remeber reading a while back about somebody loading Linux on an early version of the Xbox360 kernel.

Seems Infectus (http://infectus.biz/news.php?news=2007-11-24%2003.08.33) are about to release something which will allow u to downgrade to an older kernel, onto which people have been able to load linux on. As far as I know, the issue with no access to the GPU isn't present on the X360 (at least I don't remeber any mention of it). Does this mean that it's a step towards parhaps getting XBMC on X360 someday?

Gamester17

2007-11-29, 11:58

One step, maybe, but there still many steps left so I would not hold my breath.

Wait until someone gets a full Linux distrobution with OpenGL 3D acceleration support running easily on any Xbox360, only then we can begin to discuss the matter...

dizzey

2007-11-29, 15:20

The 3d part is going to be real hard. it depends on how simular the gpu is to other ati gpus.
if they are close and ati realeses their 3d specs and devs willing to put down the time it migth be possible.

there is alot of ifs but without accelerated 3d the 360 will be worse than the xbox 1.
Even if the chips was similar and the specs did exist the problem of finding devs is still big i guess. The thing that holds the linux port back most is the lack of devs.
Not to say that the devs we do have is not doing a fantastic job =)

flamaest

2008-01-01, 05:14

Not sure how new this is, but it's the 1st time I have seen it fully video-documented.

No mod chip required, XBMC on the 360 here we come.

XBOX 360 softmod: Running Linux Ubuntu on the 360!
http://mirror.verbrennung.org/video/24c3/24c3-2279-en-deconstructing_xbox_360_security.mkv

http://www.digg.com/microsoft/Xbox_360_Security_Deconstructing_Lecture_at_24C3

Thanks,
Fabian.

SleepyP

2008-01-01, 05:17

you do not understand what you're talking about in this regard :)

flamaest

2008-01-01, 06:20

Wow, your reply was so great and inspiring. Why don't you clarify it for us all then?

Help me understand how you are not being more than just a forum troll.

F.

matt777

2008-01-01, 12:45

nice post- thanx flamaest.. 360 xbmc- sweet

embrion

2008-01-01, 13:39

Yeah, nice one.

+: 1. huge CP power (at least looking at 3x PPC 3.2GHz, don't know how it would compare to 3x x86 3.2GHz)
2. cheap and smaller comparing to HTPC

-: 1. PPC, not x86 so I believe no XBMC for today
2. exploit works with older firmwares and with newest Xboxes some HW changed and exploitable FW doesn't exist (not huge problem if older Xboxes were not RROD) so maybe some future research will come with another exploit
3. only 512MB RAM
4. ATI GPU (but they wrote some drivers for it with 3D support)

Conclusion: hope for XBMC for Liux@PPC in the future or at least we will be able to use non-XBMC Linux as media player but this would be sad case and finally an OT as it is XBMC for Linux subforum ;)

flamaest

2008-01-01, 22:05

embrion, thanks for the detailed reply!

Fabian.

elliottlock

2008-03-16, 02:29

K i used to be very much into the Whole Xbox Modding scene but since the Xbox 360 release I lost touch a little and aren't to sure as to why the Xbox Modding seen and XBMC hasn't transitioned over to this newer platform with more power for our hungry needs.

Can someone please fill me in?

Cheers,

EL

kdid

2008-03-16, 02:48

...the Xbox 360 hasnt been "cracked", hence it cant run unsigned code such as XBMC.

elliottlock

2008-03-16, 03:00

Arr okies, thanks for that. Someone please hurry up and crack that fucker LOL.

Na but seriously, is this like something thats impossible for them to do then cause it didn't take as long on the Original Xbox?

spiff

2008-03-16, 04:22

1) WTF does this have to do with development

pike

2008-03-16, 05:34

spiff is correct and observant

@eliottlock, do respect our subforums in future PLEASE

plex

2008-03-16, 07:37

You want it badly enough elliot, do it yourself.

elliottlock

2008-03-16, 18:19

Oh wow you get flamed for asking anything in this forum.

Gamester17

2008-03-16, 18:36

No, you got snappy replies because you did not search/research before you posted.
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

elliottlock

2008-03-16, 18:37

oh and btw incase ya didn't know development is the act of improving by expanding or enlarging or refining. So it has everything to do with it ya whining troll.

Moving XBMC onto the Xbox 360 would be a massive plus as far as I can see which is why I was aking the question.

If ya have to have a degree in computer science to be accepted on this forum why don't ya specify it at the door cause at the moment it's far from n00b friendly.

spiff

2008-03-16, 20:06

if you by n00b-friendly mean inviting for whining, noncontributing, lazy trolls;
then sure, no we are not n00b friendly nor do we want to be it.

we dont expect ppl to have a degree in cs, we do however expect ppl to be smart enough to read and follow some simple instructions before posting. i guess it is too much to ask in your case.

it should require about half a brain to realize that a REQUEST for something should go in the REQUESTS subforum. and that maybe, just maybe, your brilliant bright idea of getting xbmc onto the 360 (of which i'm sure you have no idea what involves - "it says xbox on the cover "no) is not an original idea.

now go away

Gamester17

2008-03-16, 22:17

If ya have to have a degree in computer science to be accepted on this forum why don't ya specify it at the door cause at the moment it's far from n00b friendly.Actually, the developent forum you posted in does have this description:XBMC for Xbox - Development Forum
Developers forum for XBMC development. Programmers/Coders only!
Note! Not for posting Feature Requests or End-User Support Requests!

I am not sure how to make that more n00b friendly

alon

2008-07-01, 19:21

hi,

will there be a version of xbmc for the xbox 360?
is there anything similar right now?

thanks!

Gamester17

2008-07-01, 19:33

@alon, did you honestly think you where the first person to ask? If you took the time to register then why not also take the time to search and read before you post?

alon

2008-07-01, 19:37

i actually searched... just couldn't find one good answer... if you could post a link i would love it. thanks.

Gamester17

2008-07-01, 20:16

i actually searched... just couldn't find one good answer... if you could post a link i would love it. thanks.I merged your post into the main discussion thread about XBMC for Xbox360,
...and here are two links to related discussions with even more info:
http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19144
http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32320

tomtolleson

2008-07-31, 20:28

I saw some older posts regarding this, but I wanted to check to see what's up currently:

Can I run XBMC on my Xbox 360?

Thanks!

THT

watzen

2008-07-31, 20:32

digitalhigh

2008-08-05, 03:45

no

I thought there was a version of linux that could now run on the 360...if that's the case, couldn't you use a linux port of xbmc?

PainToad

2008-08-05, 04:03

How is this thread 19 pages long? There is no homebrew/unsigned code hacks for 360.

SleepyP

2008-08-05, 04:34

Seriously, can a mod lock this or something? Seeing it here gives people the false impression that this has either happened or is likely to happen when in fact neither is the case.

sho

2008-08-05, 17:55

Thread is not locked since noobs insist on asking the same question over and over.
Instead of having infinite "I demand XBMC on my 360" threads the mods have decided to lump them all in one enormous dumbfest.

pike

2008-08-05, 17:55

@SleepyP not sure how locking would make it better, it would only put a break to the madness in this particular thread

digitalhigh

2008-09-14, 21:14

Hey guys...I was just reading about the available features in the XNA game studio right now...and was wondering if it was even remotely feasible to try porting XBMC to the 360 yet, or if MS has their studio so locked down that the features of XBMC would be impossible in it's current state.

IDK...I know game studio is just that, more for games, but I thought that if you can port it to windows, then porting it to the 360 could be possible. And imagine how huge it would be to have a real media player for the 360 instead of the sadness that exists now...

digitalhigh

2008-11-15, 01:43

Please forgive me if this has been suggest already...or numerous times.

Has anybody looked into creating XBMC using the Creator's Club or w/e they call it? I'd guess that micro$oft has the hardware locked down way too severely for this to work right...but it would seem that if their goal is to make windows/360 compatibility for games, then some version of xbmc could be portable using their blessing.

Again, sorry if this has been asked, but I've been wondering about the technical feasability of this, and didn't find anything in a search...

griffore

2008-11-15, 02:04

XNA runs on the .NET compact framework, it is undetermined if one could create an "XBMC" app using the XNA framework... one could try.

XBMC is coded in C++ so a rewrite would be required.

Jezz_X

2008-11-15, 09:53

Plus like you said its for games not other applications and MS wouldn't let a program like XBMC into their little live club

digitalhigh

2008-11-15, 10:00

Plus like you said its for games not other applications and MS wouldn't let a program like XBMC into their little live club

But XNA is designed to take full advantage of the 360's gpu capabilities, right? I understand that it would be a massive porting effort...but if it were to be done within the constraints of the XNA game studio, then how could they have a problem?

We know that MS has already taken some notes from the homebrew community...maybe it's crazy enough to think that with a little prodding, they would be willing to embrace a version of XBMC for the 360.

Asswipe44

2008-12-06, 13:02

Hey guys, I realize this issue has been recycled over and over again, but just wondering if it's now possible to somehow port xbmc to xbox 360 as it has apparently been hacked. Would a combination of the xkey360 modchip and a port of xbmc work with the 360 or is this completely out of the question?
:rofl:

arnova

2008-12-06, 15:36

The Xbox360 hasn't been fully hacked yet AFAIK. Only the DVD drive has been hacked allowing you to play copied games, that's it.... Apart from that I doubt that there are any developers that have the interest to port XBMC to yet another platform (Xbox360)....

oneofayykind

2008-12-07, 06:10

I know that everyone on this forum has the xbox and not the 360. I don't understand why there aren't more people out there with a 360 that want to see software like this. I am about to make my tb hard drive fat32 so I can start loading all my blue ray movies onto it and then play directly from the 360. Why not have a media center on the thing that is customizable on how you want it to look like this software allows you to do?

So from what I understand no one is planning on making software like this?

Is it possible to put this software on your windows machine and then get into it by connecting your 360 to your pc and then playing your media that way?

lisalover1

2008-12-10, 01:52

digitalhigh

2008-12-10, 02:07

The reason the 360 cannot run homebrew yet is because the only thing that has been modified so far is the DVD drive. Sure, there probably will eventually a way to run it through that, but since 360 games are checked via xbox live, it would mean either never being connected to the internet, or some really clever coding. I certainly hope that the 360 HDD is hacked; I would love to see the homebrew capability for this machine.

In regards to an XBMC release on the XNA game studio, that probably won't happen for 2 reasons. 1. The plugins used in XBMC connect to media and let you access them freely. A commercial release of this would cause copyright havoc. 2. Microsoft would never want to have people stop using the 360's standard Media Center, no matter how much better XBMC is.

The 360 CAN run homebrew. An exploit was performed using a downgraded kernel and the king kong shader vulnerability and something about a timing attack to allow the usage of unsigned code. From that, it was made possible to run a version of linux.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/30/hacking-linux-onto-your-360-just-got-a-wee-bit-easier/

As far as MS allowing you to play media for free...the 360 already supports a fair variety of commonly-used media containers without a streaming program. Microsoft has already stopped forcing people to use the 360's standard media center. You can play .avi's straight off a CD or DVD with no conversion. Sounds pretty wide-open to me...

And I apologize if I'm not supposed to discuss anything about hacking the 360. I thought the info was pretty widely available...

lisalover1

2008-12-10, 02:22

Yes, but not everyone has a compatible 360 kernel, and we're just talking about homebrew, not running linux. There's a big difference. That's not to say that this isn't a significant leap foreward, but it still can't run specific 360 homebrew.

Also, I don't think I was very clear on my point about XBMC plugins. You don't pay for the media, but the plugins allow you to access it from various sites. The fact that a plugin IS a free streaming program is what Microsoft would be concerned about.

digitalhigh

2008-12-10, 02:29

I'm not 100%, but I thought the infeCtus chip allowed for downgrading of the kernel to one of the two compatible versions, or maybe a total swap. Regardless, this was originally the only way that xbmc1 worked...modchips. I understand what you're saying about something universal...but I'm just talking about getting a foot in the door, and going from there.

I don't follow. Which plugins? Like shoutcast and stuff? Again, if you went the xna route, I'd think the first goal would be to get *something* going. Push it forward from there. The basic codecs are built into the 360's functionality...it's just a matter of whether or not MS allows the programmers to access that functionality.

Asswipe44

2008-12-13, 12:49

Thanks for the clarification. :cool:

arnova

2009-01-02, 21:05

Wow, 16 pages about something that will probably never ever happen.... ;-)

digitalhigh

2009-01-02, 21:08

Wow, 16 pages about something that will probably never ever happen.... ;-)

Edit...Duh...you're being sarcastic? What's the secret? Or what am I missing?

Linux runs on the 360.

arnova

2009-01-02, 21:20

Yes, it's meant sarcastic. The reasons I'm saying this are:
1) Hacking a Xbox360 is non-trivial; IMO it can't be done by (almost) novice users like with Xbox1. AFAIK it can only be done with the timing hack and/or an older kernel. This means that the target group is possibly too small;
2) I doubt whether there is a dev interested/will step up to create an Xbox360 port;
3) There is a good possibility that the code requires a lot of modification before it can run on Xbox360, even if run inside Linux. The reason for this is that I doubt that the SDL layer can work out of the box on Xbox360;
4) Although I'm still a big Xbox1-fan, I do think HTPC is the future especially when the Atom-based barebones become cheaper....

spiff

2009-01-02, 21:21

linux also runs on a nes, a few casio watches, your favorite toaster etc.

Gamester17

2009-01-02, 21:25

Linux runs on the 360.If that is true and SDL already works then you would first have to port XBMC for Linux to PPC (PowerPC), read:
http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32320
and:
http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=34439

...and then you still need GPU hardware accelerated graphics (drivers and library) for the GUI and videos to run smoothly on the Xbox360, otherwise you will only get 1-5 frames per seconds.

digitalhigh

2009-01-02, 21:32

Yes, it's meant sarcastic. The reasons I'm saying this are:
1) Hacking a Xbox360 is non-trivial; IMO it can't be done by (almost) novice users like with Xbox1. This means that the target group is possibly too small;
2) I doubt whether there is a dev interested/will step up to create an Xbox360 port;
3) There is a good possibility that the code requires a lot of modification before it can run on Xbox360, even if run inside Linux. The reason for this is that I doubt that the SDL layer can work out of the box on Xbox360;
4) Although I'm still a big Xbox1-fan, I do think HTPC is the future especially when the Atom-based barebones become cheaper....

I see. My thoughts on this would be as follows:

1. Just because novice users can't do it doesn't mean the more intrepid persons out there don't want to.

2. A full port is probably unlikely, yes. Given the growing complexity of XBMC and the likely restrictions of the XDK, I'd guess (as a non-dev) that it would be one hell of an undertaking.

3. Again, I'm not a dev, but from what I've read about the xbox360 version of linux, a large majority of the hardware functionality is supported...the build of ubuntu is already customized to take advantage of everything.

4. Yes, I'd agree that HTPC is the way to go. But dude...running XBMC on my 360 would be so incredibly great. I'd invest in the time and parts to do it if I knew it would work. I've already posted at XBMC in their 360-linux forum to ask if anybody has or would try running it...maybe I can get a taker. :D

digitalhigh

2009-01-02, 21:37

If that is true and SDL already works then you would first have to port XBMC for Linux to PPC (PowerPC), read:
http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32320
and:
http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=34439

...and then you still need GPU hardware accelerated graphics (drivers and library) for the GUI and videos to run smoothly on the Xbox360, otherwise you will only get 1-5 frames per seconds.

Check this out:

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=595543

I read the threads on porting to PPC, and if I understand correctly, you're saying that although Ubuntu linux runs on the 360, XBMC will not because of the 360's PPC architecture?

arnova

2009-01-02, 21:37

Wow: casio watches with XBMC :-D I'm in!

arnova

2009-01-02, 22:44

Check this out:

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=595543

I read the threads on porting to PPC, and if I understand correctly, you're saying that although Ubuntu linux runs on the 360, XBMC will not because of the 360's PPC architecture?

Indeed. I'm sorry to say (and this may seem unlikely) but compiling a Linux Kernel for Xbox360 is probably fairly simple compared to getting all the (accelerated) hardware going properly....

digitalhigh

2009-01-02, 22:54

Indeed. I'm sorry to say (and this may seem unlikely) but compiling a Linux Kernel for Xbox360 is probably fairly simple compared to getting all the (accelerated) hardware going properly....

Bummer. I was under the impression that if linux would work, then it would be fairly simple to make something that works under linux to work on that linux working on something.

It would still be nice if somebody more knowledgeable could get this to work...someday. I won't hold my breath tho.

arnova

2009-01-02, 22:58

I'm afraid that even if someone gets it to work, that by that time the Xbox360 is already obsolete....

ashlar

2009-01-02, 23:27

I'm afraid that even if someone gets it to work, that by that time the Xbox360 is already obsolete....Well, to be honest for media center purposes I fail to see how 360 could really become obsolete, if fully hacked.
It's more than capable to decode 1080p at really high bitrates. Once you have that, what's going to make you *really* obsolete in the next... 10 years? 3D movies? I think that will be a niche for a long time. Heck, in most of the world SD programming is still the norm.

digitalhigh

2009-01-02, 23:27

I'm afraid that even if someone gets it to work, that by that time the Xbox360 is already obsolete....

It sounds like that is the case.

What would be really amazing *rolls eyes* would be the day when MS makes a system that does all of what XBMC does out of the box. The fact that they allowed for avi (& Co.) to be played back natively on the 360 blows me away.

Hey...maybe they'll contact you guys for ideas when they sit down to design the 720...

Gamester17

2009-01-03, 02:01

I read the threads on porting to PPC, and if I understand correctly, you're saying that although Ubuntu linux runs on the 360, XBMC will not because of the 360's PPC architecture?No, what I am saying is that you can not download a pre-compiled version of XBMC for Linux and try to run it on a PPC architecture because it has been compiled for x86. You could however possible make XBMC for Linux source compile (building all libraries) under Ubuntu that is running on an Xbox 360, however it will require modification to the XBMC source code, make files, and possibly the build system as it is only designed to run on x86 architecture. Some parts and library in XBMC might not compile for PPC without modifications to the source code, and other parts and library in XBMC might depend very heavily on x86 so you have to rewrite those parts.

In other words it is not impossible but time consuming and you have to know C/C++ programming-language, and preferably have some experience with cross-porting or cross-compiling. However, still once you done all of that you still need GPU hardware accelerated graphics for XBMC to run smoothly and that is the hardest part. Remember that almost nothing is impossible with software as long as the hardware supports it, but you need time, interest, and skills (or the will to learn).

PS! If you had really read through those PPC threads I linked to you would have known that XBMC for Linux has already partially been successfully compiled on PPC architecture and there is even a initial patch for compiling XBMC on PlayStation 3 (PS3) which is also based on the PPC architecture.

althekiller

2009-01-03, 06:48

Should we move or link my sticky ps3/xbox360 xbmc howto from the linux forum to this one. We really don't need to go through this crap every couple weeks.

digitalhigh

2009-01-03, 06:51

Should we move or link my sticky ps3/xbox360 xbmc howto from the linux forum to this one. We really don't need to go through this crap every couple weeks.

What crap would that be? Has someone inconvenienced you by asking about the subject? Has this discussion offended you in some way?

althekiller

2009-01-03, 07:20

And again you pull a thread off topic into something personal...

We get the XBMC on PS3/360 thing all the time, it gets old, there's plenty of info in the forums. If people would bother searching, or actually reading the search results they wouldn't need to drag up old posts all the time.

digitalhigh

2009-01-03, 15:52

Here are the search results for "xbmc" and "360":

http://xbmc.org/forum/search.php?searchid=2129683&pp=25

In three pages, I don't see one viable thread that would make me go "Oh, gee, there's been a rational discussion on this topic going on at the forums."

I've searched.

This is the only thread that I've seen that's directly about why or why not the 360 could support xbmc. Furthermore, up until recently, those posting in this thread either claimed the 360 hadn't been appropriately hacked, or that the people asking about xbmc360 were stupid noobs who were wasting "your guys" time.

I don't know everything there is to know about computers, and I most likely never will. That's why I ask questions. Lots of questions. Having people tell me that the questions I'm asking is a crap subject pisses me off.

Also, I'm sure that it's really enticing to other people who may have otherwise wanted to post here too. I've been following this thread for a long time, and this is the first post that I've seen you make even MENTIONING anything about your work about XBMC & PPC. If I had seen even one statement regarding the fact that there was more info out there, I would have gone and read it. But there haven't been any useful posts here until just recently. Hell, I've learned more about the issue in the past day from Gamester than I have in weeks of browsing XBMC forums...

Why? Because somebody took the time to just answer a question, instead of acting like it's a big waste of their time even have to read the thread. Does typing something more than once really take that much energy? They make vitamins for that...

Gamester17

2009-01-04, 01:17

I don't know everything there is to know about computers, and I most likely never will. That's why I ask questions. Lots of questions. Having people tell me that the questions I'm asking is a crap subject pisses me off.@digitalhigh, you have to understand that there are questions and then the are the way people ask questions.

Please read this (and then re-read it, it is worth it):
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
especially this:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool
and this part:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing

It is very easy to get frustrated when some people do not even try to make an effort to research the topic even a little before they ask a question which has been asked several (and in this case hundreds) of times before.

:rolleyes:

Terin

2009-01-06, 22:53

I know a lot of people have asked this, but I haven't seen anything related to my idea...

Have you guys at XBMC considered porting it to XNA? Since XNA essentially can be moved to the 360, it seems highly possible. The only thing that you'd have to really worry about, are all of the dependencies... I'm not sure how DLL's import to the 360 -- that would be interesting... Just release it as a media center -- I'm sure plenty of people would pay plenty to use it (something like $10) and then the updates would be included free. Or maybe Microsoft would willingly put it up for sale/DL for free on the developer network. Would make the 360 have more purpose than it already does (I actually don't own a 360, though, but probably would if it were capable of doing this)

Just a thought -- was curious if anyone had ever done any research. I know a bit about the XNA and 360 Developer Network, which lets you write your games... I had imagined that it would also let you publish it to the Marketplace.

quaternio

2009-03-31, 20:55

Plus like you said its for games not other applications and MS wouldn't let a program like XBMC into their little live club

There are many things on XNA Community Games that are not actually games. I think that it is at least worth considering. I understand that it would take huge rewrites of code, but it seems actually plausible, as opposed to actually modding the 360 to be homebrew-able (which is of course way not possible at this point in time).

I am pretty sure that there are some restrictions on XNA software, but I don't think that such restrictions would completely prohibit a port of some version XBMC, or at least a barebones version of mplayer. If anyone has anything to add this discussion, please do so. I'm interested to see what others think about XBMC on XNA.

Edit: Oh, and there is the whole fact that if you were to publish it to XNA, you would get payed for every download. I honestly believe that tons of people would pay for something that functioned well.

spiff

2009-04-01, 12:49

sure. it's easy. you have to start from scratch as absolutely NOTHING of the xbmc code base will be usable.

Jezz_X

2009-04-01, 13:39

And lets not get into codec rights to actually decode and play certain formats which is half the reason the 360 is limited in what it plays.And if MS were ever to host it they / us would have to pay

quaternio

2009-04-05, 04:03

sure. it's easy. you have to start from scratch as absolutely NOTHING of the xbmc code base will be usable.

And sarcasm is like a second language to me, so I'm right there with you. But yeah, that's what I said: huge rewrite, but possible.

And lets not get into codec rights to actually decode and play certain formats which is half the reason the 360 is limited in what it plays.And if MS were ever to host it they / us would have to pay

I had actually forgot about codec rights and so forth. If there were something that made such an endeavor impossible, it seems that that would be it. Or at least it would make it impossible to sell.

topfs2

2009-04-05, 10:45

XNA is officially only C# which is a different language than XBMC is written in, so we are not talking about a "just" huge rewrite, we are talking about a 100% rewrite.

The XBMC sourcecode is open source so whomever wants to do this are free to do so, I doubt ANY of the current developers have the slightest interest in doing it though.

quaternio

2009-04-11, 23:34

The XBMC sourcecode is open source so whomever wants to do this are free to do so, I doubt ANY of the current developers have the slightest interest in doing it though.

That's obvious, considering the topic was nestled into the "XBMC on Xbox 360" topic. For the record, I object to the union of these two topics. They may as well have moved it to a subforum called "Things the developers are never going to do, EVER." At least doing that would be a bit more honest. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the efforts that so many people put into the project, but sometimes I think the only reason Admins don't lock topics like this is so that developers have a place to vent and boost their egos. Not that that is a bad thing; I understand it, but it gets old quite as quickly as I am sure people asking if "you've made XBMC for 360 yet" gets old.

Thanks for discouraging me anyway

Paulkai

2009-05-15, 20:50

Hi Guys

I have now got xbmc on my vista pc, and working fine, how do I get xbmc on my xbox 360, I have google it but no luck

Paul

nicoli_k

2009-05-15, 21:10

you can't. it's only for PC, Mac, Linux and the original Xbox. The xbox 360 hasn't been hacked enough yet. Sure there are ways to change out the dvd drive and use different hard drives, but there's not a way to put homebrew software on it.

Paulkai

2009-05-16, 01:51

Thats a shame, maybe some point in the future

Thanks for the reply

Dan Dare

2009-05-16, 02:11

I'd like to see that myself, but I doubt it given the revamped security model and the fact that is a different platform... that would probably require a complete rewrite with XNA. To be honest I believe most of the weight of XBMC has moved from Xbox towards Linux, so I wouldn't see that coming very soon. That and the fact HD hasn't managed very well in replacing SD, no pressure on that front...

knite

2009-05-17, 00:02

digitalhigh

2009-05-17, 00:14

According to this (http://xbmc.org/blog/2009/05/06/xbmc-904-babylon-released-ready-for-download/), XBMC has now been ported to PPC.

There is no discussion on the announcement thread (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50443) regarding how this affects the likelihood of XBMC being ported to the XBOX 360.

I've read all of this thread and searched the forums. If I missed a thread which answers my question, I apologize.

It is my understanding that as of 3/2007 the XBOX 360 supports homebrew on kernel versions 4532 and 4548, and that systems can be downgraded to these kernels.

So, we have an XBOX 360 able to run unsigned code, and we have XBMC available for the PPC architecture. Does this mean XBMC for the XBOX 360 is now a real possibility?

The first part is true.

I don't know squat about the differences in the PPC architecture between the MAC and Xbox360, but I'd imagine they're as different as night and day.

"...and while the architecture is well known for being used by Apple's Macintosh lines from 1994 to 2006 (before Apple's transition to Intel), its use in video game consoles and embedded applications far exceed Apple's use."

So, while it is a PPC core, my guess is that what exists now would have to be heavily (if not entirely) modified to get it to go on a 360.

I'd love to see it too...I just highly highly doubt it.

waldo22

2009-05-19, 08:04

@digitalhigh,

I don't think that's it at all. XBMC should compile and "run" using software rendering on the Xbox 360. (I'm not sure about this.) It would be pretty awful, though.

I think that the issue is that there isn't currently a way to get access to ATI's Xenos graphics chip for OpenGL acceleration:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos_(graphics_chip)

If we had readily-available Linux drivers for that chip with full OpenGL support, maybe it would work.

Otherwise, we'd have to port to XNA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA

and that will happen when pigs fly.

(although recently "swine flu")

-Wes

dotrat1989

2009-06-13, 10:37

I know it's really early to be talking about this but we (homebrew)hacked the XBOX 360! YAY!.. Looking at this, it's still kinda hard to perform the hack.

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEApuFVAEZoyUVvULE.php

Hopefully we will soon have some sort of solder less solution for noobs like me to do this in the future.

I was thinking you the brain heads behind the XBMC would be able to replicate the hack and start unleashing the 360's power. Obviously there still is barriers to overcome..

There's the possibility that home brew will never catch on because the hack is too hard to perform on the XBOX 360 by a noob...

You, the developers must actually get the hack, with very primitive instructions, to work...

And XBMC is built on the X86 architecture that the original XBOX had not the powerpc which the 360 has...

Here's my rebuttal.

XBMC started the home brew revolution, not to mention the HTPC revolution. If you showed a working demo of XBMC on the 360, every chip developer from infectus to team xecuter will working their asses off to mainstream the hack for everyone. Not to mention some members, as I understand it, are already porting XBMC to the powerpc architecture... PLEASE JUST GET XBMC ON THE 360 SO THE HOMEBREW SCENE CAN MOVE FORWARD!

stoli

2009-06-13, 10:53

I suspect you will find your answer here: www.xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40236

dotrat1989

2009-06-13, 10:54

EDIT------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just realized two things:

This hack is pretty old

and

MS could close this hole...

Does anyone know if MS plugged this hole?

lolwat

2009-06-17, 21:01

I'm just looking to know if there are any groups around working on getting XBMC to work with the XBOX 360?

If any groups feel they may have success within a years time I may purchase an XBOX 360, otherwise I'm going to go with a 1.3 XBOX or something.

So yea, I just want to know if there's any groups working on the problem now and if there's a website to keep track of their progress directly.

Thanks-

stoli

2009-06-17, 21:07

Not too likely (http://www.xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40236)

lolwat

2009-06-17, 21:20

In that case, are there any projects to take over XBMC's spot for future console and hardware?

I came across this, supposedly pioneered by one of the original XBMC hackers;
http://xbox.joystiq.com/2006/02/12/xbmc-hacker-introduces-transcode-360/
http://runtime360.com - to get Divx/Xvid playback on the XBOX 360, but that won't be enough...

From the research I've done so far it seems clear that XBMC will fall in to the shadows with older consoles unless XBMC releases a new version heading a new project based on hacks of the new console systems.

I'll have to keep an eye out, looks like it might not be too much longer before the demand for hacks rise, might be some interesting times in modding again - I'd like to see XBMC keep up but it doesn't sound like the team is willing so naturally they will be selected out of the spotlight in time. >:]

http://www.xbox360-hacks.com

joebrady

2009-06-17, 21:39

From the research I've done so far it seems clear that XBMC will fall in to the shadows with older consoles unless XBMC releases a new version heading a new project based on hacks of the new console systems.

I'll have to keep an eye out, looks like it might not be too much longer before the demand for hacks rise, might be some interesting times in modding again - I'd like to see XBMC keep up but it doesn't sound like the team is willing so naturally they will be selected out of the spotlight in time. >:]

Really?

http://xbmc.org/download/

Waffa

2009-06-17, 21:41

Lol:laugh:

Yeswecan

2009-07-15, 18:02

well, it has been done...

http://www.cygnos360.com/news.htm

its running :-)

spiff

2009-07-15, 18:09

... exactly as crappy as we have said all the time

Yeswecan

2009-07-15, 18:18

well, still some work to do.

since AMD released some documentation about R500 & R600 GPUs, maybe openGL is not too far away now...

spiff

2009-07-15, 18:40

here's to hoping. i doubt it will happen before the hw is outdated though

ashlar

2009-07-15, 19:17

here's to hoping. i doubt it will happen before the hw is outdated thoughWell, there's only so much one could ask for from a Media Center. If it could decode 1080p content reliably (with a triple core 3.2 GHz CPU I'd be surprised if it couldn't, leaving aside possible GPU decoding developoments) it could become, in the future, a nice low cost alternative to a fully fledged htpc.

spiff

2009-07-15, 19:28

a noisy one at that

C-Quel

2009-07-15, 20:29

I can already see it Lord of the Rings Trilogy on my 360 :) the red ones!

ashlar

2009-07-15, 21:02

a noisy one at that:laugh: You are right. Although the majority of noise comes from the DVD. Streaming stuff it should be okay(ish).

vdrfan

2009-07-15, 21:12

.. for action flicks

waldo22

2009-07-16, 05:46

Boy, that's loud!

I've never heard a 360 before.

vskatusa

2009-07-17, 00:11

I have read the instructions (http://www.xbmc.org/wiki/?title=Installing_XBMC_for_Xbox).

Questions:

1. Do I get the t3ch build from "Googleing 't3ch' ?
2. If i choose to install Option 1 - Using the Team XBMC Shortcut.xbe (Recommended) as dashboard can I use the xbox for its native functionality (playing games etc) - I am noobie using xbox and hence this question
3. Does anybody have picx to share xbmc running in xbox 360?

Geeba

2009-07-17, 00:34

Your kiddin? 135 posts? and you've never seen a 360 thread?

A search will point you in the right direction.... or you could get over to ebay and pick yourself up a first gen xbox! :D the only Xbox XBMC runs on....

althekiller

2009-07-17, 00:47

Fixed the wiki.

Geeba

2009-07-17, 01:02

LMAO! prety subtle for you Al!!

Contents
1 Requirements
1.1 Modded XBox (NOT 360!)

vskatusa

2009-07-17, 01:50

Wait a minute!

Do I understand that the instructions DO NOT work for 360?

From the above post it is clear that XBMC has not been tested in XBOX 360 - Am I right?

vskatusa

2009-07-17, 02:38

stoli

2009-07-17, 03:03

138 posts later - you must be trolling

althekiller

2009-07-17, 04:55

ok! After searching it is clear that xbmc does not run on xbox 360 yet!

I am planning to buy the old xbox from ebay (modded with xbmc). Will it run h.264 (computing power)???? And does the "original" xbox have component output and 5.1 audio?

Search button works for those too.

paul

2009-07-17, 05:16

joebrady

2009-07-17, 06:27

http://www.cygnos360.com/news.htm

paul

2009-07-17, 09:36

http://www.cygnos360.com/news.htm
Yeh so what's the point? theres no sound and no 3d aceleration which means it will run like hell. a pointless excersise if you want my oppinion:p

Geeba

2009-07-17, 10:45

Good exercise - but it will be like watching a movie on the taxi way at an airport! :D

Bigkidoz

2009-07-17, 15:39

Yeh so what's the point? theres no sound and no 3d aceleration which means it will run like hell. a pointless excersise if you want my oppinion:p

Maybe but who knows it could be the next cheap arse media centre, XBMC had to start somewhere so the 360 maybe the next conquest.

Geeba

2009-07-17, 15:52

Click the link - make sure you dont have your PC speakers turned up to loud ;) - your'll get nice 747 effects without going to the airport... 360 IMO is way to noisey to ever be a half decent media centre.....

waldo22

2009-07-18, 01:50

That's why they make watercooling, I guess...

vskatusa

2009-07-18, 22:01

However, there is a way to see movies on your XBOX 360

althekiller

2009-07-19, 20:20

However, there is a way to see movies on your XBOX 360

That's no the discussion here, XBMC on 360 is. Please stay on topic.

digitalhigh

2009-08-08, 04:43

Just saw the post about the new cygnos chip on Xbox-scene.com. Noteably, the bit about XBMC running on linux-360. I understand that there is no gpu acceleration or direct sound support...but isn't this still a fantastic step in the right direction?

I'm most likely wrong in this assertion, but I would think that even without the GPU's support, regular ol' avi playback should work with the power packed into the machine...no?

So yeah, while it's not yet full-blown XBMC, it is a running model. Hopefully, work will continue in the direction this shows and sound and gpu support will rear their heads. Kudos to anybody who did the porting to get even this basic step down...

althekiller

2009-08-08, 05:11

We aren't involved, nor are we interested in being. Those who are can fork.

digitalhigh

2009-08-09, 05:07

We aren't involved, nor are we interested in being. Those who are can fork.

It would appear that someone associated with the program is interested...at least, according to the article.

We used Ubuntu 7.10 for that purpose (we dont take credits for the porting to PPC that fully goes to the guys at XBMC.org). We had to throw in quite a bit of work in patching here and there to get XBMC running on our Xbox360 console (so we take credit for that ;-) ). We did not have any time for any optimization whatsoever. Please view this as a "proof of concept" XBMC is still without GPU acceleration and without direct sound support. It runs stable however and you can see the news feed ticking in. We are confident that the revived interest in Linux on the Xbox360 together with the excellent hardware documentation, which is already available for AMDs similar R500 and R600 GPUs, will soon lead to 3D acceleration on the Xbox360.

So...either it's a hack of the mac version, or someone here helped??

Either way...I am very sorry that you (collectively?) feel that way about this. It was originally said that it would never happen. Then it was said that it was theoretically possible, but would still never happen. Then it was this...then it was that. Now they have proof-of-concept, and...what...still nobody is interested?

I have to ask...why in the hell not? I mean, don't take this personal, but the 360 paired with cygnos has a lot of potential, and it seems a little dumb to have no interest whatsoever in exploring the possibilities.

I know I don't have much room to be bold as I can't contribute much to the development of the program, but I know that if I was capable of working on this myself, I'd be all over it.

So, yeah...sorry to hear that.

paul

2009-08-09, 08:08

It would appear that someone associated with the program is interested...at least, according to the article.

So...either it's a hack of the mac version, or someone here helped??

Either way...I am very sorry that you (collectively?) feel that way about this. It was originally said that it would never happen. Then it was said that it was theoretically possible, but would still never happen. Then it was this...then it was that. Now they have proof-of-concept, and...what...still nobody is interested?

I have to ask...why in the hell not? I mean, don't take this personal, but the 360 paired with cygnos has a lot of potential, and it seems a little dumb to have no interest whatsoever in exploring the possibilities.

I know I don't have much room to be bold as I can't contribute much to the development of the program, but I know that if I was capable of working on this myself, I'd be all over it.

So, yeah...sorry to hear that.
Well put digitalhigh.
While i have no use for it myself on my xbox360s i do know a lot of people who would love to run xbmc on there xbox 360's as it's a great machine for the money as was XBOX1.
And i can't help but feel the devs are just plain snobby and don't want anything to do with consoles. But just maybe they know they can't do it and just won't admit to it.
Just my oppinion;)

althekiller

2009-08-09, 09:14

Right, snobby. Play cat and mouse with console hacks or develop freely on open platforms...which to choose...

digitalhigh

2009-08-09, 15:46

Right, snobby. Play cat and mouse with console hacks or develop freely on open platforms...which to choose...

I did figure that it was something along those lines...the cat and mouse bit, not the snobby bit.

Still...I have to give a nod to the origins of XBMC, where all that was available was console hacks, and the XB actually meant Xbox. I totally get the developer standpoint of "Develop on what's easiest", but dammit, can't you guys at least try? Isn't that the whole fun of being a programmer...coming up with brilliant hacks to do stuff that's not supposed to be done??

I can probably spout this stuff until I'm blue in the face...but I implore any devs out there to give this some serious consideration. What may be a clodgy console hack now could eventually evolve into an eloquent, powerful platform...just as the Xbox1 did. Why not get the jump on this medium??

Dan Dare

2009-08-09, 19:46

@digitalhigh
There's been recently an appeal for Xbox 1 developers to come on board due to lack of resources, I wouldn't see a whole new push on Xbox 360 with as probably there's enough people willing to put an effort for a long time in this direction... Maybe is a pitty, but in my oppinion the driver now is Linux platform, probably due better tools and libraries readily available.

Robgue

2009-08-12, 06:21

digitalhigh

2009-08-13, 03:16

Looks like there's gonna be an better exploit released soon according to xbox-scene. cool. although why bother when you're probably better off now with a ion machine. unless you get a real customized linux-ppc-xbmc going with hardware video acceleration, sound, and what ever else is missing.

I saw that. I've actually been avoiding updating my dash in order to hopefully keep the system open to said exploit.

If that's the case, then hopefully it'll make the machine that much more accessible to developers. A one-shot-hits-all install of linux requiring no modchip or fw downgrade...well, damn.

And yes, the ion machine is a great piece of hardware. But the fact of the matter is, I've got a 360 already, while I honestly don't even have the cash to buy me a nice ion setup. So to me, the concept is still quite appealing.

garvani

2009-08-13, 06:16

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=690029

shit are people excited about that hack or what!.. 19 pages in that thread and god theres one hell of a bitch fight happening in the middle of it.. still not sure if the hacks being released or not.. some hackz0r groups have got pissed because the information was released to the public, and now dont want to release the hack.. yep thats awesome..

azido

2009-08-13, 10:40

:laugh:

look at this post (dated yesterday) i found on an xbox360 hardware forum:

Free60 (www.free60.org (http://www.free60.org/)) is a project that aims to enable Xbox 360 users to run homebrew applications and operating systems like Linux on their consoles. The effort is headed by Felix Domke and Michael Steil, who have a background in dbox2, Xbox and GameCube hacking, and who have spoken at various conferences about their findings. Two years ago, Free60 released a hack that allowed arbitrary code execution using a game ("King Kong Hack") as well as an adapted version of Linux, but this possibility has been disabled by Microsoft in subsequent updates of the Xbox 360 software.

On Tuesday, Microsoft has released an Xbox 360 software update that overwrites the first stage bootloader of the system. Although there have been numerous software updates for Microsoft's gaming console in the past, this is the first one to overwrite the vital boot block. Any failure while updating this will break the Xbox 360 beyond repair. Statistics from other systems have shown that about one in a thousand bootloader updates goes wrong, and unless Microsoft has a novel solution to this problem, this puts tens of thousands of Xboxes at risk.

It seems that this update is being done to fix a vulnerability already known to the Free60 Project. This vulnerability has been successfully exploited to run arbitrary code, and a complete end user compatible hack has been in development for some time and is planned to be released on free60.org shortly. It will allow users to take back control of their Xboxes and run arbitrary code like homebrew applications or Linux right after turning on the console and without the need of a modchip, finally opening up the Xbox 360 to a level of hacking as the original Xbox.

Because of the dangerousness of the update and the homebrew lockout, the Free60 Project advises all Xbox 360 users to not update their systems to the latest software version. The Project website at http://free60.org/ will provide the latest information on this ongoing topic, including the final hack software. so for all you xbox360 users out there that might want to have a chance to run linux (and so xbmc) on the 360: DON'T do the august 09 update (triggered yesterday i guess) and stay tuned at free60.org..

more info on the possibilities this hack seems to offer:

- We can boot own code in HV context ~5s after boot, before any video output, right after the kernel runs.
- we need to reflash the flash, and add 3 resistors for the JTAG (no modchip required! but you might want a dual-nand modchip),
- 8498 kills this by updating the bootloader - it blacklists 4532/4548. it also does hw init stuff which might interefere with the jtag hack, we don't know yet.
- we have a proof of concept hack, we will release it SOON (a matter of hours/days, not more - promised.).
- DON'T UPDATE to summer 09. Did i already say this?
- you don't need to know your cpu key. You can update to all BUT summer '09. you don't need a dvdrom.
- It works on all xenon, zephyr, falcon, opus, jasper. Unless you have updated to 849x. Then you're screwed.

Geeba

2009-08-13, 10:51

Hmmm - I can hear the devs keys jangerling as they get the locking bunch out :D

Been discussed a gazzzzzillion times and the usual outcome is "no" and "code welcome"

I doubt your'll be running XBMC on a 360 before it takes its place in console history....

azido

2009-08-13, 10:54

Hmmm - I can hear the devs keys jangerling as the get the locking bunch out :D

Been discussed a gazzzzzillion times and the usual outcome is "no" and "code welcome"

I doubt your'll be running XBMC on a 360 before it takes its place in console history....

there's nothing to prevent us from running xbmc on xbox360 once a full-featured linux can be installed, since the hardware is already more of a pc than an "ordinary console".

spiff

2009-08-13, 11:06

uhrr. rite. you have the drivers written then? you know, these little trivial parts of code that makes the hardware work

azido

2009-08-13, 11:15

uhrr. rite. you have the drivers written then? you know, these little trivial parts of code that makes the hardware work

mr. grumpy again :laugh: yeah, i know.. but chances are the hardware inside an xbox360 is not that special or exotic or specially designed to work as a console. in fact, to me it seems that's quite the same stuff you'll find in a typical pc. at least that's what my guess is when reading tech specs.

of course i can be wrong here, sure. in that case we might remove "soon" - but i'm sure there are freaks out there getting a full featured linux running which is able to detect and run all hardware in this nifty little machine in the end - once it can be booted.

i'm not that euphoric on this topic anyway, since imho the xbox 360 still is noisy as hell compared to my pc - just wanted to tell ya'll the latest ongoing.

watzen

2009-08-13, 11:19

mr. grumpy again :laugh: yeah, i know.. but chances are the hardware inside an xbox360 is not that special or exotic or specially designed to work as a console. in fact, to me it seems that's quite the same stuff you'll find in a typical pc. at least that's what my guess is when reading tech specs.

of course i can be wrong here, sure.

It seems as you haven't read much about the hardware in the xbox360 and just assume that it has the same type of run of the mill components like the first xbox.

Geeba

2009-08-13, 11:34

Yep its a long way from the first Xbox - which was like a PC - which in turn got hacked to buggery!! hence uncle Bill and M$ didnt make the same mistake twice ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_hardware

azido

2009-08-13, 11:49

I seems as you haven't read much about the hardware in the xbox360 and just assume that it has the same type of run of the mill components like the first xbox.

nope, i know they didn't follow their initial way like on standard xbox.

but, see here:

Status

Run Code (http://www.free60.org/wiki/Run_Code): You can run your own code on Xbox 360 systems with kernel versions 4532 and 4548. If you own a box manufactured before 2007, upgrade to one of these versions, but to no later one. A new hack is in development which works on all consoles not yet updated to the 849x update (Summer 09). This hack will be released soon.
Linux Bootloader (http://www.free60.org/wiki/Linux_Bootloader): A preliminary second-stage boot loader exists.
Linux Kernel (http://www.free60.org/wiki/Linux_Kernel): Patches for the Linux kernel to support a large part of the Xbox 360 hardware exist. As long as you're waiting for a convenient way to boot, you can set up your cross compiler environment.
Linux Distributions: Several LiveCD (http://www.free60.org/wiki/LiveCD) variants and installation howtos for Debian-etch (http://www.free60.org/wiki/Debian-etch), Ubuntu7.04 (http://www.free60.org/wiki/Ubuntu7.04) and Ubuntu7.10 (http://www.free60.org/wiki/Ubuntu7.10) are available.

i'm unsure what " support a large part of the Xbox 360 hardware" actually includes, though.