Multiple display-output settings/profiles?

[fhoude]

hi,

with my xbox i have a standard 4:3 tv and a barco video projector with a big 16:9 screen.
when i want to listen to music i'm using the 4:3 tv since it's fast and i don't need to turn the light off.
when i want to look at movie or pictures then i use the barco.
unfortunately, there’s no way to manage multiple settings in xbmc.

for example my ultimate would be:
setting1 (audio): pal 4:3 720x576 with the correct screen position and tuning.
setting2 (video): ntsc 16:9 hdtv 1280x720 with the correct screen position and tuning.

i'm wondering if it's best to enable xbmc to do that or if i should make 2 copies of xbmc on my xbox harddrive and then load with another dashboard the one i want.

what do you think?
fred.

ps: because my 4:3 tv does not support hdtv including multiple setting in xbmc must be study properly. (start-up setting selection with the xbox default configuration?)

[d0lby]

topic pretty much says it -
i have a wide screen projector and a tv which i switch between when using the xbox, but the overscan settings are different for each.
could you implement in the gui the ability to save settings to a 'profile' or something so that i can switch between the two?
thanks!

[Dr_Colossus]

would be cool to have video calibration presets for people who use different tv's on a regular basis. i have four myself.

[heraldoffailure]

i think it would be nice, with all the toting around of the xbox that it would be nice to be able to save different tv calibrations in a menu, so that i could save "my tvs" settings and "the family room tvs" settings and call them up when i use that certain tv, instead of having to calibrate for each tv each time i use it (which i don't do because it's a pain). *to make it worth it you'd have to have at least 5 slots to save to, and be able to name them for each location. *to me, it sounds pretty simple.

thanks for moving the topic, couldn't find another on it

[turranius]

i use xbmc on both my tv and on my projector. naturally, the screen calibration is off between them and i have to recalibrate it.

so a "screen calibration profile" of sorts would be great. somewhere you can name them (i'd make two. tv & proj) and switch between them in the menus somewhere.

thanks =)

[joepmeloen]

i would like that too.i use my xbox on about 6 differend tvs.16:9 widescreen.4:3 and a projector.(im always showing off with it so i have to demonstrate it :cool: )
its the same thing with networksettings,gotta change them all the time.

would really like to see an option somewere in the menu where i can choose between differend settings.something like this; a button in (for example) general settings 'what setup should xbmc use?' or 'profiles' ,then in the next screen a list with names where you could choose from.(and maby one with 'make new profile' or something like that)just pick the one you want and...tadaaa....the box reboot with the setup you want to use(calibration,audio setting,network settings etc).also it should remember the settings that you make in the 'profile'your using at that time.

[dingdong]

yes please! , i hope the devs can find some sparetime to add this urgent feature.
a detection of the avips cable mode would be great, wich automaticly sets your prefered resolution 480p/1080i. it's quite annoying that you have to dive through the video submenus each time you're switching displays.
-thx-

[Gamester17]

this request is m00t until a video-mode eeprom (pal <=> ntsc <=> hdtv) switch (http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.pl?act=st;f=4;t=3304) is implemented first, plus it would be 'dangerous' to switch mode too often.

[dingdong]

sure, for pal tv the eeprom will get reflashed every time.
but changing between 480i ntsc and 1080i hdtv is done by the cable mode settings, wich directly trigger the video chip - meaning ntsc users should be fine to switch these modes as often they need to.
... maybe exept progressive output - is there any flashing taking place for 480p ??

i'm switching my avip settings via remote control and it would be exellent if xbmc could detect cable modes while booting to select your favourite resolution. there's a large amount of people who use ntsc as their prefered display mode - even in europe (ntsc capable tv / projector) - so this feature is definetly worth implementing i hope.

[SuperRabbit0]

i have read through all the faqs and manuals and cannot find specific enough help for my situation.

i currently have not modded my xbox put am considering doing that in order to run xbmc to replace a problematic htpc.

unforunately, i have an unusual setup where i have 2 output devices which i would like to connect, though not simultaneously.

first is a 4:3 sdtv which i use for regular viewing and second is a 720p projector which i project to a screen pulled in front of the tv (so both are never used at same time.)

i would like to use xbmc in this environment but for it to work, i need 2 things:

1. a simple way to change output modes (ideally using a remote) without loading alternate dashboards, etc. from 480p (4:3) to 720p.

2. a av cable which outputs to a component and s-video or even composite cable simultaneously. i saw a joytech cable at walmart yesterday with both connections but cant tell if they are simultaneous.

can anyone help me understand if xbmc is a viable solution for me?


thanks!

[jmarshall]

there's two methods:

1. you need a cable that will do both modes that are switchable using a switch. you then setup the ms dashboard with 480p disabled, and 720p enabled. you should also disable widescreen. running xbmc in "auto" mode will auto-switch to 720p on bootup when the hdtv connection is enabled, and will drop back to 4:3 ntsc when it's not.

2. use profiles to save the setups separately (one for 4:3 ntsc, one for 720p) you then have to go in and load them manually, which will require your projector to be on if changing from/to 720p.

cheers,
jonathan

[SuperRabbit0]

1. you need a cable that will do both modes that are switchable using a switch. you then setup the ms dashboard with 480p disabled, and 720p enabled. you should also disable widescreen. running xbmc in "auto" mode will auto-switch to 720p on bootup when the hdtv connection is enabled, and will drop back to 4:3 ntsc when it's not.
this sounds amazing! however, i have been searching through dozens of component cables online and cant see any that are switchable.

can anyone suggest a cable or connector that has component as well as s-video or composite and is switchable?

[dingdong]

superrabbit0:
if you have some soldering skills you can easily build your own cable. open up the avip connector and solder the y,pr,pb cables (use 3 thin coax cables) from your projector to pins 18/16,19/17,22/20 like shown here. (http://mypage.bluewin.ch/cqd/pinout/)
after inserting a switch between pins 9/10 you can now choose between scart(rgb)tv and hdtv(y,pr,pb).

if you need maximum comfort i.e. selecting video modes via remote control, you might want to use a device like the ir-mod (http://www.chiptech.de/) by soldering the bank-switching cable to pin9 of the avip, voila !

[djdafreund]

i did search, but didn't see this posted yet, and thought it is an excellent idea (everyone has an opinion i guess.)

what i'm meaning by the topic is this. right now, you can change between displaying between 16x9 and 4x3 with the screen, but in general, you can't change the xbox's 16x9 to 4x3 and vice versa mode unless you load up xbox dashboard and change it, or also using avalaunch to change it.
that way, if you switch back and forth between 16x9 tv's and 4x3 tv's (ie- my 4x3 32inch sony, and my 7inch 16x9 lcd panel when inside my car.) and you play games, sure, xbmc might look ok, but the game/video/etc. will still not be correct unless you load xbox dashboard and change the mode back from 16x9 to 4x3 mode, or also using avalaunch to also change the mode.
would it be possible to add that as a feature inside xbmc, so a user can now change the xbox mode between 16x9 mode and 4x3 mode so we no longer have to go inside xbox dash or avalaunch to do it? if no, that's ok, i just though a lot of others would like this option added, and just haven't mentioned it for whatever personal reasons. maybe they thought they would get a rude response, i dunno. i think it would be a very nice addition to xbmc to be able to do.

thanx guys,

xbmc lover.

ps- i hope your whole xbmc team has an excellent xmas btw!!! thanks again for giving the scene such an excellent piece of work!!!

[kraqh3d]

we dont change the video mode because it can be dangerous. it modifies the eeprom. the older xbmp allowed users to switch modes, and there were constant posts from users who messed up their xboxes from it. so no video mode changes.

[djdafreund]

ok, that's cool. i use avalaunch all the time to change and haven't had any problems on my xbox's doing it, but i also wasn't aware of others apparently having problems. i knew there could be issues, but thought maybe things have been changed over time and were more stable. since xbox dash itself does it 100% safe that is. oh well, thanks for the response.

merry christmas to all!!!! or whatever holliday your religion is. :-)

[Freddo]

it was only the ntsc/pal eeprom changes that people were messing up, 16:9/4:3 is a much different kettle of fish and i'd say this feature could be a lot of use in xbmc.

[kraqh3d]

yes, that is true. but once you enabled the modes in the ms dash, you can switch rather readily between 16x9 and 4x3 in xbmc.

[djdafreund]

i agree, that is true that you can change easily, but only within xbmc. once you are physically in 16x9 mode via a dashboard (using eeprom), you will always be in 16x9 mode. sure, you can switch modes within xbmc to display positioning in either 16x9 or 4x3 mode, but as soon as you load a game, or movie, or emu, it'll still be in 16x9 mode, no matter which mode xbmc is set for in 'system'.
that's why i was hoping that could be added, so you can actually change the mode in eeprom, so the actual mode in xbox will be changed, not just x/y positions of everything draw onscreen. i'm sure there would be a lot of people also loving this addition to xbmc.

[Freddo]

maybe this could be an extension to the way xbmc can currently launch games in pal/ntsc by the context menu, patching the eeprom value in memory only and not on the actual eeprom, xbmc could just always launch the game in the same mode as xbmc is set to by default, or the user could optionally specify by the context menu.

[C-Quel]

now when i first looked at this thread i thought naaa gimmick option for xbmc no good.

but!

i use a wireless sender to distribute audio/video/ir around my house from the living room xbox.

my living room tv is 16x9 and the other rooms are 4x3 so yes i could see how this could be useful for purposes such as mine. but i am but one mere mortal and unless there is a big shout for this as a feature to be added then i shall 'sit, wait, watch' and enjoy what i have :)

oh and it may? be fairly easy to do i don't know but the dev that handled the region switching on video modes 'spiff' is nigh on a genius. ask him :bowdown:

[Markeen]

i sugested this a few months back (years?) *without any feedback so i decided to give it another try :

what i would like to see in xbmc is the ability to select video playback resolution according to the video source aspect ratio.
options would be something like this :
gui res : 480p
4:3 videos res : 480p
widescreen videos res : 720p

and of course you're going to ask why ! let me try to explain :
i use xbmc with a video projector which is 480p 720p 1080i capable. the projection screen is 2 meters wide with 4:3 aspect ratio. whenever it is possible i prefer to have the projection screen filled with the picture (gui and 4:3 videos) but when it comes to widescreen movies i'd rather benefit from the better resolution (720p or 1080i).

does this make sense to anyone ? thanks for your feedback.
anyways outstanding work guys !

[BigBellyBilly]

but, widescreen exists at all resolutions, what would determine when to increase to another resolution ?

why not just press the y button to toggle throu the different modes available ?

[Markeen]

what would determine the display resolution is the aspect ratio of the video not its resolution. 480p has a 4:3 aspect ratio. 720p and 1080i have a 16:9 aspect ratio. so with my hardware configuration every video with an aspect ratio between 4:3 and 16:9 (excluded) should be displayed in 480p when videos between 16:9 and 2.76:1 (ultra panavision 70) should be displayed in 720p or 1080i.

this is what i want because i have a 4:3 display screen but people with 16:9 display screen will surely want to display everything a 16:9 aspect ratio resolution.

i didn't know about the y button thanks for the tip i'll give it a try tonight.

edit : after a quick search on google i found this on aspect ratio (http://www.theprojectorpros.com/learn.php?s=learn&p=theater_aspect_ratio). example 4 shows exactly my situation (my projector has a 800x600 resolution). so if xbmc displays a 480p picture (640x480) i don't benefit from all the pixels of my projector. if xbmc displays a 720p picture (1280x720) the projector downscales a little bit the picture but i get all the pixels.

[Markeen]

well i looked a little bit into the code of xbmc just to know exactly how it selects its display settings. i stumbled upon the cxboxrenderer::choosebestresolution method and i have a few questions :

1 - it seems that xbmc will switch to widescreen resolution only if the widescreen flag has been set in the bios (bcandowidescreen = g_videoconfig.haswidescreen()). is this normal ? i mean in my bios settings i have enabled 480p and 720p but not the widescreen display because my projector screen is 4:3. am i wrong to do so ? i don't want my games to play in 480p with widescreen apect ratio.
shouldn't the test be something like this ?
bcandowidescreen = g_videoconfig.haswidescreen() || g_videoconfig.has720p() || g_videoconfig.has1080i();
but maybe games playings in 480p don't apply 16:9 aspect ratio even if it set in the bios and i sould set it to true.

2 - xbmc will not swith to 720p (or 1080i) if the video resolution is not greater than 480p (or 720p). wouldn't lower resolution videos benefit from an upscaling made by xbmc ?

bigbellybilly : the y button only changes the zoom setting not the display resolution.

[jmarshall]

1. correct. as for games, it's up to the game to decide whether or not it takes advantage of the widescreen flag. i suggest you turn it on and see. 720p and 1080i does not enter the equation - these modes are always widescreen.

2. correct. the rationale is that it depends on the output device. this is a historical thing really though (ie it was coded like this to begin with, and hasn't changed much since). imo video should always be displayed in the mode that suits it best. that would be 720p if possible, 1080i after that, then 480p/ntsc/pal modes (switching to 16x9 based on the widescreen tag). upsample to gui resolution overrides this and the video will be displayed in the gui resolution.

ideally i'd like the upsample to gui resolution changed to a spin control "video output resolution", the contents of which change depending on the video modes present.

for instance, it really should only contain:

pal/ntsc/480p screens only (ie no hd):
4x3, 16x9, autoswitch (switches between the modes as it does now)

720p/1080i available:

720p, 1080i

then remove the "autoswitch widescreen" option as well.

feel free to implement the above as a patch if you have time :)

cheers,
jonathan

[Markeen]

before implementing anything i want to make sure that we agree on how it should work. personaly i would like to see 4:3 videos (whatever their resolutions) displayed in 480p not 720p even if it's available.
the choice could be made without any setting in xbmc but only according to the bios settings :

bios settings * * * ** *|| * *display resolution
ws|480p|720p/1080i||4:3 videos|16:6 videos
- * | *x * *| * * *x * * **|| 480p * * *| 720p
- * | *x * *| * * *- * * * *|| 480p * * *| 480p
- * | *- * * | * * *x * *** || 720p * * *| 720p
- * | *- * * | * * *- * * ***||ntsc/pal|ntsc/pal
x * | *x * *| * * *x * * **|| 720p * * | 720p
x * | *x * *| * * *- * * ** || 480p * * *| 480p
x * | *- * *| * * *x * * ** || 720p * * *| 720p
x * | *- * *| * * *- * * ****||ntsc/pal|ntsc/pal

the 'use gui resolution' option can still be used to bypass all that.
am i missing something ?

by the way i found a bug tonight : with a 480p gui when disabling 'use gui resolution' and playing a 720p video the resolution switches correctly to 720p but the video appears on the upper left quarter of the screen. the problem does not appear if the gui is already in 720p.

[jmarshall]

a couple of points:

1. 480p has both 4x3 and 16x9 modes (as do ntsc/pal), thus the option to either fix the resolution at one of them, or allow it to autoswitch between them, as some televisions can switch modes based on the widescreen signal. this is currently the "auto switch to widescreen" option, and is obviously only useable if the bios has the widescreen flag on.

2. the "use gui resolution" option is imo too limited (with the "advanced" option as it is now being done when it's off) - besides, the gui is not really suited to running in 1080i due to memory issues, so those with 480p/1080i only sets are left out in the cold.

3. i'm not sure i like the option of running 4x3 video in 480p rather than 720p - i'm not sure of your rational for this (if you get more pixels in 720p, why not use it, along with the "stretch to 16x9" setting?) this seems the odd option out of all of them.

cheers,
jonathan

[Markeen]

ok i have to make myself clear about the fact that i want 4:3 videos displayed in 480p 4:3 no matter what :

it comes from the fact that i have a 4:3 video projector (800x600) with a 4:3 projection screen. when i watch 4:3 video sources i want the picture to be displayed on the entire screeen which is the case if the resolution is 480p 4:3. with the 720p resolution sure i get more pixels but the picture is smaller on the screen. a 4:3 video projected at 720p looks like a small window on my screen. that's why i want videos with aspect ratio from 4:3 to 16:9 (not included) to be displayed in 480p 4:3 and videos with aspect ratio from 16:9 to 2.76:1 to be displayed in 720p (or 1080i).

i think that 480p 4:3 should be used for 4:3 to 16:9 (not included) to get a bigger picture (size matters more than resolution). someone with a 4:3 tv (or projector like me) with 480p and 720p will want (i thing) the biggest possible picture, to do so xbmc has to use the 480p 4:3 resolution until the video fits into 720p without shrinking (videos with at leat 16:9 ar). 16:9 videos can then be displayed at 720p with a better resolution without size loss.

on the contrary people with 16:9 tv with 480p and 720p (i don't know if it even exists) will want ot display everything at 720p because it won't affect the size of the displayed picture.

what do you think ?

[Gamester17]

@markeen, off-topic but just so you know; it is not recommended to output 720p or 1080i to a display that do not support to output that itself natively, please read this (link) (http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.pl?act=st&f=2&t=16291). in short if you send a 720p (1280x720 pixels) signal to your projector which you state only feature 800x600 native resolution it will downscale the signal to its maximum native output resolution and the result will look blurry/fuzzy, probably even worse than if you instead send a 480p (or 576p = 720x576 progressive if pal) to it and let it upscale (or zoom) that to your displays native output resolution (ie 800x600 in your case). * ...but please don't let that stop you from making the patch, the code function would still greatly appreciated,, thanks in advance.

ps! personaly i like to advice you to invest in a true hdtv 720p-widescreen projector if you can afford it (like the sanyo plv-z3 (http://www.sanyo-lcdp.com/english/product/plvz3/plvz3.html) or panasonic pt-ae700u (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vmodeldetail?displaytab=o&storeid=15001&catalogid=13401&itemid=86438&catgroupid=24980&modelno=pt-ae700u-ec&surfmodel=pt-ae700u-ec&cacheprogram=11002&cachepartner=7000000000000005702)).

[Markeen]

mmm i am off topic because my original thread 'playback res according to video aspect-ratio?' was merged (by i don't know who) with this one. maybe it can be undone ?

after much thinking :) i think you're right to let xbmc do the downscaling instead of my projector (which is not firmware upgradable). xbmc does certainly a better job antialiasing than my projector. antialiasing is more important than a little more resolution. so i'll stick to 480p even for 16:9 videos which is what i do now with great results.

concerning the 'patch' i am at a loss about what's to be done. if i understand jmarshall the best would be no option in xbmc (no 'use gui res' and no 'autoswitch widescreen'). so i guess we're back to my little graph (modified) :

bios settings * * * * * ||display resolution
ws|480p|720p/1080i||4:3 videos * * *|16:6 videos
- * | *x * *| * * *x * * * *|| 480p 4:3 * * * | 720p
- * | *x * *| * * *- * * * * || 480p 4:3 * * * | 480p 4:3
- * | *- * *| * * *x * * * * || 720p * * * * * * | 720p
- * | *- * *| * * *- * * * * *||ntsc/pal 4:3 |ntsc/pal 4:3
x * | *x * *| * * *x * * * *|| 720p * * * * * * | 720p
x * | *x * *| * * *- * * * * || 480p 4:3 * * * | 480p 16:9
x * | *- * *| * * *x * * * * || 720p * * * * * * | 720p
x * | *- * *| * * *- * * * * *||ntsc/pal 4:3 |ntsc/pal 16:9

ps @gamester17 personnaly i prefer dlp projectors i find the picture much more film like. a friend of mine has the sanyo and i find the picture much too 'computerized' for my taste.

[niknas]

is it possible to have xbmc recognize when it is attached through component input and plain scart/rgb input?

i have a situation where i switch between my hd capable projector and my standard resolution tv set quite often. what happens is that i have calibrated my hd setup so that it works ok, but when i switch to scart/rgb the main menu is all messed up.
if i set xbmc to start with my movies as default, i can see the movies menu ok. it is only the main menu that is messed up.
a few versions back i could still navigate the main menu even though i couldn't really see what was going on, but as long as i went into a submeny as my movies/my whatever, i could see the submenu correctly. this is no longer possible. the main menu is totally unresponsive and i have to switch to the hd display to do anything.
anyone who has the same problems?
i use the xbmc-cvs_2006-03-28-t3ch release.