View Full Version : Xbox with XBMC vs. dedicated CD/DVD/XviD/DivX-players?
hi
i'm what you call an audiophile, standing joke; listens more to equipment then music...
i would say the xbmc cdplayer is inferior to the built-in one that comes with the xboxdash. xbmc seams to lack certain filters to make the sound warmer, and filters that do not give you a big separation between base and the mid and upper registry. and stereo output isn't really well balanced, when there are different sounds, from the cd that is being played, in the back and front of the speaker and left and right, xbmc just doesn't keep up..
jmarshall
2004-10-03, 17:26
seeing as the built in ms-dash does hardware upsampling (and does it particularly bad) i would guess they would sound different.
put hq resampling on in xbmc.
the signal is pure digital all the way through - can't say anything else about it really.
sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but just out of curiosity: what does hq resampling actually do?
recently purchased a dd/dts home stereo receiver, and ever since i've been using the digital out i've been wondering what makes hq resampling produce higher quality? i remember reading some threads at the time it was introduced, but didn't have an intrest at that time...
-munde
"hq" resampling uses a software routine known as *ssrc* instead of the hardware resampling of xbox. why it's called "hq" is since ssrc manages the *udial* sample.
google stuff within * * to get more info
done some googling, and soon found myself reading hydrogenaudio forums (again)...
after some (ok, a lot) of reading i now have a pretty good picture about what hq res is about. even ended up testing the udial sample. which, as u said pike, plays perfectly. no clipping, alien sounds etc. the same sample sounded like shit on my computer :thumbsup:
it's a comforting to know that there apparently are some audiophiles among the developers :lol:
ps: pike, thanks for the hints to the right direction :)
-munde
pncampbell
2004-12-15, 00:53
ive got a kiss dp1000 player but tbh im a little dissapointed with the current state of hardware xvid .... it seems to run jerky unless i'm prepared to spend huge amounts of time recoding the files with all sorts of exotic utilities.
if something plays properly on my pc i expect a dedicated player to be able to handle it but seems the current generation xvid chipsets have marginal horse power. would i have any more luck with an xbox media center since i imagine it hase vastly more horse power than these cheap dedicated players ?.
paul.
Dr_Colossus
2004-12-15, 03:08
if you can justify the price do it and ebay the hardware player.
around this time of year, you should be able to find an xbox and pickup the appropriate hardware for well under $200...if you want to watch xvid i simply can't imagine anything much better than an xbox.
i'm ripping all my dvds to ~2gb xvids and then the xbox upscales them to hd res and it looks tremendous on my 56" hdtv.
sticky
slicemaster101
2004-12-15, 04:54
around this time of year, you should be able to find an xbox and pickup the appropriate hardware for well under $200...if you want to watch xvid i simply can't imagine anything much better than an xbox.
i'm ripping all my dvds to ~2gb xvids and then the xbox upscales them to hd res and it looks tremendous on my 56" hdtv.
sticky
agreed,
an xbox loaded with xbmc is fare better to any current generation standalone xvid player available. i highly recommend it for any type of video playback including xvid, divx, and any other supported codec. the options and flexibility of the xbox and xbmc far surpass’ any current generation of hardware decoding. to say the least, the xbox and xbmc is your perfect set top box media center. i have thrown many different video files at xbmc and have never come across a video file (encoded with a compatible video codec) that it couldn’t play. anyways, like sticky said, there is no other set top equipment out there that can decode video better then an xbox loaded with xbmc. anyways, if you already have an xbox, the only thing that you would need is a modchip compatible with your version (good ones run about $60-$70 dollars). however if you are starting from scratch you can probably get everything you need to get started for ~$200 dollars (usd).
signed,
slice
p.s. if you need a recommendation for a modchip, i would recommend the x-chip. it is basically impossible to fuck up because the chips comes equipped with a usb flashing adaptor. i have heard good things about the new xecuter3 though as well.
well i just got my new xbox yesterday, put xbmc straight onto it as the default dash and well... my kiss dp450 is going to gather a lot of dust.
the video player in xbmc is far, far superior to the dp450. no more skipping , stuttering xvid's, no more waiting for a minute to search an hour into the file, if the audio is out of sync due to a bad encode then it can be fine-tuned.
i'm very very impressed. i had both the dp450 and a hauppauge mvp box. both of which are now totally redundant in the face of the xbmc.
i've just got to quieten the bloody xbox down now!
jonny_eh
2004-12-17, 17:36
why do people keep recommending modchips when softmods are so easy, and cheap?
these softmod packages like idot's ltools are foolproof and work on every xbox.
my box is softmodded and everything works perfectly.
the second you mention a mod-chip, people will shy away, thinking opening the xbox and soddering wires is just not worth it.
why do people keep recommending modchips when softmods are so easy, and cheap?
these softmod packages like idot's ltools are foolproof and work on every xbox.
my box is softmodded and everything works perfectly.
the second you mention a mod-chip, people will shy away, thinking opening the xbox and soddering wires is just not worth it.
you do have a valid point there. but people thinking about getting an xbox are such newbies that the hassle of hotswapping/save-game exploiting is probably equally unappealing...
for a newbie, i'd still recomend to pay the few extra $$$ to get a chip installed by a pro. it's only a one-time investment, and is worth the money. easy, hassle-free and long-lasting solution.
-munde
ps: no, there's no better standalone device than an xbox+xbmc. thanks all you devs :thumbsup:
xbmc plays pretty much every video file great! an xbox is amazing when you compare it to a divx player. oh, and it can play xbox games! and not to mention all the other programs/emulators that it has.
:kickass:
among the many other advantages of using the xbox over hardware mpeg4 players, is that only very recently has any other hardware started supporting hd resolution xvid encodes.
i think it's pretty amazing that the xbox can handle decoding for 1280x720 (720p hd) resolutions.
i know hd isn't mainstream yet, but by the amazing support offered by xbmc, you'd think it was :)
Youbecha
2004-12-24, 18:04
i fought for a year to set up a computer to be my multimedia station. the hardest thing was the audio, even though i had the appropriate audio card, i couldn't get dd to my stereo.
hook up the xbox, and not only do i get dd i also get component output...beautiful and easy (for me, not the programmers ;))
Youbecha
2005-01-02, 18:54
i've just got to quieten the bloody xbox down now!
?
mine makes no noise at all. unless playing games.
when i play movies etc, the hd shuts down (all streamed over network)...only when i hit the remote, does the hd come back on...
mine makes no noise at all. unless playing games.
the hard drive isn't the noise maker, it's the stupid 50p fan that's in it. it's like having my full pc set up sitting in the living room. no good at all for watching movies, no good at all.
i've replaced the fan now however and it's fine.
mine makes no noise at all. *unless playing games.
the hard drive isn't the noise maker, it's the stupid 50p fan that's in it. it's like having my full pc set up sitting in the living room. no good at all for watching movies, no good at all.
i've replaced the fan now however and it's fine.
you could have just gone to the system settings in xbmc, and set the fan speed to 5% if you are using one of the newer builds....
i did and while it was better, there was still this droning noise coming from the fan. maybe it was just my box but i could still hear it in another room!
plus the temp went up to pretty much what it is now, about 68 degrees c!
Gamester17
2005-01-05, 16:35
suggestions; buy a new fan (doesn't cost much nor hard to install, see xbox-scene (http://www.xbox-scene.com/tutorials.php?p=191|298|#298)) or put the xbox in a tv cupboard with glass doors
Youbecha
2005-01-06, 02:11
mine makes no noise at all. unless playing games.
the hard drive isn't the noise maker, it's the stupid 50p fan that's in it. it's like having my full pc set up sitting in the living room. no good at all for watching movies, no good at all.
i've replaced the fan now however and it's fine.
i honestly don't hear mine at all...sometimes i forget and leave the xbox running for long periods of time...with tv and stereo off.
i've tried converting my dvds to xvid, but i've had problems with them freezing (they look great though), so i've been forced to use divx (which doesn't look as good). i've heard that it is a problem with the codec in xbmc, but from what you guys say, it should be working fine... what did you guys do to get it to work?
@youbecha: i've just put the vantec stealth mod in and albeit a bit noisier than before, the temp is now 59 degrees. much better than before! i'll just have to put up with it i guess. the main prob was that beforehad there was only the dvd and mvp box which basically made no noise at all. now i've got this thing with a fan in it so it's a big difference!
@stim: i play allsorts of 'premade' xvid files and they're all fine. no probs at all really, occasional *slight* stutter but not much. what are you using to encode them with? autogk?
Norm In Norman
2005-01-09, 09:28
can an x-box running xbmc be used as a replacement for a progressive scan dvd player? *i've been wanting to softmod my xbox and install xbmc but have been worrying about buying a rather expensive component switch so i can switch between my dvd player and the xbox. *if i can still get the same quality from my xbox as my progressive scan dvd player then i wouldn't need the switch and i could move my current dvd player to another room. *i already have the hd pack and guess i need to get the dvd remote. will it play all of my movies (including some backups on dvd-r)?
here's the catch though: my wife needs to be able to play a dvd with it. *if it takes her too many steps to do it she'll just end up getting pissed at me.
another question: can i use xbmc as my dashboard (with a softmod) and still play my xbox games? *if not, i may as well not go through with it.
:)
these are the posts that just make me happy.
first off yes! it makes a great dvd player replacement!! do it now.
as for the wife worries, i hear ya. my fiance has gotten the hang of xbmc, although i have been at it for quite some time now, and she loves it. once you get her past the initial "it's different" stage, she'll love the freedom of not having to pick out a dvd to watch, and instead browse for it :)
i think tivo owners all had the same thing happen,
wife: "ugh what is this tivo thing, its stupid."
** two weeks later **
wife: "get off of my tivo!"
definately make xbmc your default dash. you may find that softmodding your xbox + using msdash for dvd playback is a bit cumbersome at first, i'm in the middle of my first softmod right now for a friend's 1.6. you will want to use the msdash as a dvd player since xbmc does not have dvd menu support. the key to xbmc is making it easy enough for your wife to use (and like), thats my goal at least, when you have done that, you have a pretty sick setup. if you want something easy, pick up a no solder modchip or flash your tsop, tsop flashes are what i prefer personally, its cheap and easy and can be done on the spot without waiting for a chip to be delivered.
hope that helps.. good luck!
Norm In Norman
2005-01-09, 10:51
i thought that the ms dashboard would not give me more than 480i output. is this correct? i want to have at least the quality of my progressive scan (480p) dvd player (on my hdtv). i don't really care about the menus as long as the movie plays fairly easily. i can see from the screenshots that there is something called "play dvd", but i dont' really know what comes next.
eventually i would like to put all of my movies into xvid, but that will take some time that i don't have.
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/5724/progressive-scan-dashboard-available
the answer to your question is
"it depends on what kind of dvd quality you want."
if you are looking for a sub $200 dvd player, then sure, i think it would be fine. but in spite of what a lot of people probably tell you, yes you can see a difference between a $100 dvd player and a $400 dvd player.
if you have a great home theater, don't let the weak link be your dvd player, and go out and get a solid denon, pioneer or panasonic (whose players get better and better each quarter). if you just need average quality, then the xbox will work fine. i have watched dvds on mine and it looked ok.
DoughBoy
2005-01-10, 22:03
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/5724/progressive-scan-dashboard-available
i tried that and the dash is progressive but when i insert a dvd, it switches to 480i :(
i have a hacked dashboard which i patched to 480p. the only problem is that i have had to revert to original dash to play some dvds that contain xbox demos etc. (eg. van helsing i think is one of them, and also star wars trilogy extras dvd).
xbmc is not a great dvd player at the moment. it doesn't support menus, and some dvd's it just can't play at all (scrambled video, or just won't even start).
i like the ms dash dvd player altho of course it requires the dongle + remote. the remote is also useful in xbmc so it's not a waste to get it.
third option: dvd-x2 which is region-free but doesn't support the remote at all.
if you're going to use msdash or dvdx2 you need to patch the binaries so that they support 480p. read how here:
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=152822&st=0
once the devs finish upgrading xbmc to support full dvd menus it will be the ultimate solution of course. until then you'll have to make do with these stopgap ideas.
also, you may want to read this article, i found it very interesting:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/480i_vs_480p.htm
Norm In Norman
2005-01-11, 00:16
ahhhhh - thanks. i guess i'll try to hex edit the ms dash to enable 480p and see how that looks, hopefully it looks good enough to get me by until xbmc supports dvd a little better.
although my dvd player isn't too high end, it was pretty good for back in the day. i can definitely see a huge difference when i switch between 480p and 480i on it.
i would think that in theory the xbox could look better than a high end dvd player, if there is enough processing power of course. a dvd player is probably stuck with the decoder chip that is in it while someone could develop a decoder for the xbox that is better since it is all done in software. i hear dscaler can produce an awesome picture. could it be ported to xbox? just a thought.
@youbecha: i've just put the vantec stealth mod in and albeit a bit noisier than before, the temp is now 59 degrees. much better than before! i'll just have to put up with it i guess. the main prob was that beforehad there was only the dvd and mvp box which basically made no noise at all. now i've got this thing with a fan in it so it's a big difference!
@stim: i play allsorts of 'premade' xvid files and they're all fine. no probs at all really, occasional *slight* stutter but not much. what are you using to encode them with? autogk?
i updated to the latest xbmc build, and the problem is solved... i do encode w/ autogk.
Norm In Norman
2005-01-13, 17:09
ok, i edited the original dashboard to support 480p as suggested in the above link and tried it out. it looks quite better than i thought it would. probably as good as my old panasonic progressive scan. the only problem is i can't press any buttons on the remote besides play and the menu navigation buttons or it freaks out and reboots. i tried it with 4 different movies. maybe there is an updated msdash i should be using? the unedited original dash works perfectly, except that it is in 480i and doesn't look nearly as good.
so, is there an recommended alternate dvd player out there that supports the remote and 480p?
also, any time i insert a disc xbmc pauses for at least 30 seconds (maybe longer). it is quite annoying. i even tried putting a data disc in there with pics on it and it did the same thing. is this normal? also, i have tried several discs and xbmc won't play any of them. i know menus aren't supported, but i thought at least some dvds would play.
i think i downloaded the latest version. it was from a few weeks ago.
try avalaunch. it has an integrated dvd player that supports resolutions up to 1080i.
i use it for watching dvds - instead of the original dash-board - and it works really nice.
Norm In Norman
2005-01-13, 23:05
thanks. i'll try that tonight.
Norm In Norman
2005-01-14, 20:46
well, avalaunch works fairly ok. i wish it would display the time and track. maybe there is some way of doing this that i don't know about. i might be imagining things, but i think the hacked ms dashboard looked a bit better when it was actually working.
i may make avalaunch my main dashboard since it's mega easy to launch xbmc with it. i imagine there will be more dvds played on that machine than other stuff, so it will be easier for my wife to deal with. hopefully the xbmc stuff will get fixed soon. i am really surprised that there aren't more dvd players out there. i would think that would be a popular feature.
sadly, visualbasic.ai.developer.2005 doesn't seem to have support for creating dvdplayers http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/cry.gif
anyone ever compared xbmc to a standalone divx / dvdplayer with divx functionality ?
i compared xbmc to a few pioneer's and lg dvdplayers (granted, i doubt any of these where divx certified) and i was surprised how bad they were in comparison to xbmc!
they had:
*) very weak calibration possibilities.
*) extremely limited subtitle support
*) not support for the latest "extensions" in mpeg4, which resulted in extremely poor xvid playback
i didn't really bother diving any further in the testing after these findings :saint:
*) very weak calibration possibilities.
*) extremely limited subtitle support
*) not support for the latest "extensions" in mpeg4, which resulted in extremely poor xvid playback
exact, but they also have :
> perfect smooth playback
> hight bitrate support
> great design
> native lcd support
> play movies without any sound
> lower price
but xbox have :
> samba sharing
> a ton of supported codec
> a lot of games and emulators
> hdtv support
> internet streamed radio/tv
...
imo : xbox is the winner ...
( after personal test : philips 727 / yamada 6600 ... too bad ... )
i was actually thinking about comparing the philips dvp720sa with xbmc.
sacd/divx/mp3/jpeg/svcd/vcd/
cd/cd-r/cd-rw/dvd+r/+rw/dvd-video, 8x video oversampling (108mhz/12bit) and 192khz/24bit audio oversampling. dolby prologic ii- dolby digital and dts-dekoder. 5 disc resume. component out with progressive scan (pal/ntsc), scart (rgb), s-video and composit out.
gonna test the jamo dvr 50 to as my brother have that rig setup next to his xbox.
will mainly test divx/xvid with srt and sub subtiles, but gonna try a svcd or two also i think
i was reading this (http://www20.graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20050329/lcd_review-05.html) guide to lcd tv's over at tom's hardware, and they compare the visual quality of a pc dvd player to a regular stand alone dvd player. which is xbmc more like? how does xbmc handle interpolation?
jmarshall
2005-03-31, 08:55
pc. it interpolates in hardware (linear interpolation) and the upscaling will be better than most upscaling dvd players.
moviebuff21
2005-05-15, 09:54
i am planning to buy an xbox so that i can play my dvds,dvd-rips(mpeg4 format) on it .id like to know whats the video quality like on a xbox compared to standalone divx certified dvd players ? thx in advance
moviebuff running the hd cable pack for component the quality is just as good as any dvd player on the market.
if you can ripp down the dvds and stream them from a media storage area on your network or direct on your xbox, you get the benefit of gui resolution upsampling...so 1920x1080 ohh so lovely on hd displays and in progressive too!
my roomate has the philips dvp642 or whatever it is standalone player. i think xbmc kicks its ass in every important respect. the ui is much nicer, and the video decode quality is *far* superior. i couldn't believe that thing was for real! posterization, artifacting... just terrible. xbmc beats it handily.
here's a question: i'm getting the infocus 4805 projector which apparently has excellent upscaling due to the faroudja chip. everything i've read says that it is best to let the projector do the upscaling and send it dvd video at 480i. is there a way to set xbmc to do this (leaving everything else -- xvid, games, etc -- at real hd resolutions) or am i stuck using the ms dash to play dvds?
would turning off "upscale to gui resolution" accomplish this? in other words, i want everything sent to the projector un-scaled, so games at 480p or 720p, dvds at 480i, and i'm not sure about media files -- if i turned off upscaling and watched an xvid that was at 640 x 352, would that be sent as 480p? all this is assuming that 480p and 720p are enabled in the dash.
upscale to ui resolution ofcourse only affects media played in xbmc, thus not games.
you can only set upscale global, so you cannot tell dvd's to do 1 thing, and other files something else. (within xbmc)
thanks, pike. so with "upscale to gui" disabled, everything (eg xvid at 640x352) is sent at 480i?
TiaoMacaleh
2005-08-21, 02:09
better.
ts
plus you can configure to 0 overscan (most dvd+tv make a litle zoom cutting the image, depending you model that can be huge) and no aspect ratio error (some players like the philips dvp have a horrible ar error)....
xbox all the way :kickass:
thanks, pike. so with "upscale to gui" disabled, everything (eg xvid at 640x352) is sent at 480i?
i see no reason why you want to upscale just the ui then.. run ui in 480i and have upscale to ui enabled :)
the other comment i'd make is that the newer dvd players about to hit the market with h.264 decoding chips in them will do hd resolutions in mpeg iv-avc.
clearly this is ahead of the xbox's capabilities but i think its only fair to see xbox 360 as the competitor to the new era dvd players coming about.....ofcourse if and when the 360 can be used as a homebrew development platform......
Gamester17
2005-08-22, 19:37
you guys should really read this up-to-date "stand-alone mpeg-4 (divx, xvid...) player buyers guide (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=98228)" by y.t., in it he tries to quickly guide you through the things you didn't think you you needed to know but should before/when buying a set-top-box (stb) divx/xvid player, it will help you aviod the pitfalls and the quirks you have to live with no matter what you decide to go with, ...and btw it briefly mentions xbmc as an alternative to standalone players too.
ps! personaly i would not buy a standalone divx/xvid player instead of xbox with xbmc unless that standalone also featured; full*pvr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/pvr) functions with a very large integrated hdd (where you could also store any other video, music and picture files which could be used in savable playlists), also 720p/1080i native-resolution video playback, and upconverting all other video to 720p/1080i, h.264 avc playback, plus a build-in hd-dvd or bluray disc reader and a network-connection (with samba-share support). however then we're in a totally different price-bracket and i (and probebly most of you) would not be able to afford it until it way goes down in price which it wouldn't until at least a couple of years. ...who knowns, by then maybe the xbox360 can be modded and xbmc been ported to it, making the standalones obsolete once again.
okay, i got my projector and i'm still a little confused.
i've got all the resolutions enabled in ms dash. i've tried xbmc set to ntsc 16:9, 480p, and 720p, all with "upscale to gui" off. .avis play in 480p (as they should), the king kong hd xvid trailer plays in 720p (as it should), but dvds still play in 480p (should be 480i). i played the dvds with dvd-x and avalaunch and they play in 480i as they should. are there any settings i can change that would make xbmc play dvds in 480i?
thanks
why would you want your display device to show interlaced instead of progressive? progressive provides better display quality.
caldor, the projector has the faroudja chip which apparently is one of the best if not the best on the market when it comes to scaling/deinterlacing. better picture quality would be obtained by feeding the projector the unaltered 480i dvd source rather than having the xbox upscale it to 480p.
i am kind of a newb to xbmc, but i do have a few questions about the dvd playback built in. i did update the player(s) to the latest versions via the xbmc-cvs_2006-01-01-t3ch release and replacing everything in the \system\players\ directory on my xbox.
1.) video and sound quality wise, is it better than dvd-x 2.0 and the microsoft one where you have to use the remote and dongle?
2.) does it support progressive scan?
3.) what are the ideal settings for dvd playback for the optimal picture clarity?
4.) how come a big portion of dvds do not autoplay or play when i select playdvd
5.) how come the xbmc database doesn't get updated with dvd info like it does with cds and cddb?
just a few quick questions for a new xbmc user who has only used for a day or two :-)
i am kind of a newb to xbmc, but i do have a few questions about the dvd playback built in. i did update the player(s) to the latest versions via the xbmc-cvs_2006-01-01-t3ch release and replacing everything in the \system\players\ directory on my xbox.
1.) video and sound quality wise, is it better than dvd-x 2.0 and the microsoft one where you have to use the remote and dongle?
2.) does it support progressive scan?
3.) what are the ideal settings for dvd playback for the optimal picture clarity?
4.) how come a big portion of dvds do not autoplay or play when i select playdvd
5.) how come the xbmc database doesn't get updated with dvd info like it does with cds and cddb?
just a few quick questions for a new xbmc user who has only used for a day or two :-)
jmarshall
2006-01-09, 23:45
welcome :)
1. it should be (and is to my eyes). see for yourself.
2. yes. it can also upscale to 720p or 1080i (720p preferred).
3. high quality renderer, no soften, and no flicker filter. interlace options depend on the dvd at hand. generally it should be set to none, unless you have an interlaced dvd (try auto).
4. no idea - the dvd player is a recent addition, and is not flawless. post a debug log with a dvd that does this.
5. cause noone has coded it - you want to do it?
cheers,
jonathan
jmarshall
2006-01-09, 23:45
welcome :)
1. it should be (and is to my eyes). see for yourself.
2. yes. it can also upscale to 720p or 1080i (720p preferred).
3. high quality renderer, no soften, and no flicker filter. interlace options depend on the dvd at hand. generally it should be set to none, unless you have an interlaced dvd (try auto).
4. no idea - the dvd player is a recent addition, and is not flawless. post a debug log with a dvd that does this.
5. cause noone has coded it - you want to do it?
cheers,
jonathan
i do have a question about dvd-x 2.0 and the xbox remote. i know its all nice to have it dongle free, but how can i enable remote support for it? i know dvd-x 1.0 offers support, but there must be an option in the config that i can enable my dongle.
any help?
Gamester17
2006-01-13, 11:49
i do have a question about dvd-x 2.0 and the xbox remote. i know its all nice to have it dongle free, but how can i enable remote support for it?dvdx 2.0 doesn't support the dvd ir-remote at all!, you can use "gueux dvd-player" or "avalaunch" instead which uses the same code but support the dvd ir-remote.
ps! this isn't a support forum for anything other than xbmc! if you have problems/questions in regards to other software then i suggest you ask over at xbox-scene.com (http://www.xbox-scene.com)
is the xbox good enough to compete with a high end cd players?, what components does it have as far as high fidelty?
reason: i'm thinking about converting my cd collection to lossless ape, and wonder how the xbox will stand up to my sony qs cd player?
all played trough xbmc obvioulsy :cool:
i dont know what we're comparing against, only processing we do on 2ch audio if you "passthru" it digitally in 2ch (pcm) is upsample to 48khz using ssrc
apart from that, signal is unaltered, and as long as it is digital, same as any other digital equipment (no analog losses)
jmarshall
2006-03-30, 03:11
only your ears can decide.
i would suggest that if you are connecting via a digital hookup, then the quality difference will be marginal (the only additional process is upsampling to 48khz, assuming your not screwing with volume levels.)
via analog then the difference is likely to be larger. the analog d/a stage is the one that will influence the sound the most, and one would assume that a decent sony cd player will have a reasonable analog output stage. that's not to say that you'll be able to hear any difference, however.
please remember that any differences are likely small - don't fall into the trap of thinking you can hear a difference when in fact you can't. simple things such as 1db change in output level will make you think there's a difference. levels must be perfectly balanced to do any sort of comparisons.
and don't use ape - use flac instead. it's open and fast. much faster than ape at both encoding and decoding, and the filesize difference is minimal.
cheers,
jonathan
allright, i'll be doing some serious testing this weekend and get back to you with the results!
it will be sony qs sacd vs xbmc :) (both digitally connected)
sorry if this reply is rather later but it may be helpful, i listen to a lot of lossless audio using xbmc and would reccomend wavpack over flac or ape, the issue i have with flac is there is almost no differance between its -4 to -8 settings yet wavpack on high is faster to compress and almost always smaller than flac -8.
this (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=lossless_comparison) is a good comparison of the popular codecs if you want to find out what features they have.
on the idea that all digital devices in audio are the same - some of the high end home theatre gear has better electronics to handle jitter and the like in digital audio devices. personally i've never been able to abx the difference between a 20 000 dollar cd player in a store and 200 dollar players. there is kits that do the same for much less money where you use the drives laser mechanism and then plug that into a low jitter solution.
also some people will be critical of the sampling rate conversion being done saying that it colours the signal.
you'll see great battles between subjectivist vs objectivist nutters in the home theatre scene. i have built myself some speakers using jm labs focal drivers, and while they are not as good as the $aus120 000 dollar pair of beryllium focal speakers i honestly think nothing would come close with a retail cost of under $aus20 000. they cost me $3 000 to finish complete. this is one thing about home theatre - the markups on retail costs are huge for the better quality gear.
anyway the point im making is that in my personal opinion (being an objectivist) i have the gear to show up more hidden problems in audio tracks and i find the fidelity more than fine from playing back cd material, or indeed flac material that i keep in my archive.
zapata for your test i reckon its only fair to compare apples with apples. e.g. same sampling rate, some bitrate in the comparison. no good comparing 44khz 16bit against 96khz 24 bit.
only your ears can decide.
i would suggest that if you are connecting via a digital hookup, then the quality difference will be marginal (the only additional process is upsampling to 48khz, assuming your not screwing with volume levels.)
via analog then the difference is likely to be larger. the analog d/a stage is the one that will influence the sound the most, and one would assume that a decent sony cd player will have a reasonable analog output stage. that's not to say that you'll be able to hear any difference, however.
please remember that any differences are likely small - don't fall into the trap of thinking you can hear a difference when in fact you can't. simple things such as 1db change in output level will make you think there's a difference. levels must be perfectly balanced to do any sort of comparisons.
and don't use ape - use flac instead. it's open and fast. much faster than ape at both encoding and decoding, and the filesize difference is minimal.
cheers,
jonathan
this isn´t where i left my thread ;-)
anyway as promised i'm getting back on the xbox as a hi-fi appliance question.
well... i must say i'm really impressed, xbmc does a fantastic job of passing through the pcm bitstream for lossless audio without distorting it!
comparing to my sony qs sacd player the difference is damn small, almost nil!
the only thing i noticed (because i'm a stereo geek) is that the xbox produces a tiny tad "deader" sound, but you would need a very nice system to hear the difference.
so... i´m going ape on all my cd´s now :d thanks to xbmc!
cheers to the team and keep the beat on 2.0!!
i have my xbmc setup hooked up to a digital converter optical to coaxial (going to just install it inside the xbox to skip this part of the chain) then to a adc (actually it really is convertering coax to aes with its main feature being a true a/d converter) then to a dac aes to balanced analogue outs to a pair of event monitors, the sound is excellent!
zapata avoid ape extra high at all cost if using the latest versions as its not gapless on xbmc and i personally found it to compress extremly slow on my pc not to mention when i want to convert it to another format it is also rather slow (15x realtime if im lucky). anyway i will stop now as its starting to look like a crusade against ape :lol:
jmarshall
2006-04-27, 23:43
just to add to the crusade ;)
on high, ape has to read and decode about the first 4mb of the file after any seek in order to start decoding - thus the reason it's not going to be gapless (it just takes too long to read it all in).
try ape high on any other player and do a seek and you'll see what you mean.
i recommend flac - it's almost universally supported, is completely open, is fast to compress and decompress, has good tag support (vorbis comments) and compresses reasonably well.
zapata avoid ape extra high at all cost if using the latest versions as its not gapless on xbmc and i personally found it to compress extremly slow on my pc not to mention when i want to convert it to another format it is also rather slow (15x realtime if im lucky). anyway i will stop now as its starting to look like a crusade against ape :lol:
hmm topic tracking doesn't seem to work for me?
as for ape, 1cd takes about 10 minutes @ normal on my 1.8ghz p4, not sure about gapless but the xbmc track mixer works great with ape, no gaps!
performance tip: try different settings in eac under advanced/cd player, worked for me...
Could someone give me a comparison of the PQ I can expect using xbmc to upconvert to 720p or 1080i vs what I'd get using a traditional upconverting DVD player. I'm using a panny 50ph9uk plasma which really relies on good source material since it has little internal processing and I'm worried that I won't get good PQ from the Xbox. I'm most interested in streaming an ISO from a network computer.
Has anyone here used xbmc with a 50ph9uk or earlier model of commercial panny plasma? Thanks guys.
Gamester17
2006-12-23, 20:27
I have an Xbox with latest XBMC connected to a 720p projector (Panasonic PT-AE700U) via component cables and the picture is simply amazing when upscaling standard DVD-Video (NTSC and PAL movies). Please read this whole topic thread about other people experinces, but to sum up, you will have to spend a lot of money to get an upscaling DVD-player that can compare to the visual quality of the Xbox output that XBMC produce. Add that to the fact that XBMC is the only player that can parse ISO/IMG DVD-images and RAR/ZIP archives and a much nicer interface (plus you can play Xbox games and use arcade/console emulators), you got a product that has the best value for money you can get.
Just buy one, you won't regret it! :;):
PS! It is recomended to use 720p output from the Xbox instead of 1080i, this is because the Xbox doesn't have enough memory to run everything in 1080i, please read the online-manual and FAQ for more information.
ultrabrutal
2006-12-23, 20:54
After I got a 1366x768 plasma (852x480 before), I stopped using my Pioneer DVD player which is known for good quality (much better component cable than the Xbox cable I got). The excellent scaler in my screen just does not match the High Quality Pixel Shader in XBMC - not even close. The quality is indeed stunning for DVD playback. This is just one of XBMC's features. There are so many reasons why it is the best availble media center on any platform (if you disregard the lack of tuner/PVR support).
I got 3 Xbox'es in different rooms. It's simply a MUST-HAVE extension of your TV. Almost anyone I show XBMC to, want's an Xbox too :)