View Full Version : 128MB RAM upgrade, any benefits for XBMC?
does having 128 megabytes of memory in your xbox make anything run better with xbmc?
does anything in xbmc utilise extra memory if its available to increase performance?
i've heared streaming video runs better, is this true?
Metalmyth
2004-09-28, 17:22
hi
i apolgize but for some reason (not intentional) but my thread seemed to show up here as well as a the thread i created....thanks for the answer "sigtom" as for the question you brought up...
"what exactly, besides a few clips from ms on thier website, do you plan on watching on the xbox that has that 720p resolution?"
i was going to use the xbox to upconvert normal video sources up to the 720p res i believe that xbmc can do this if presented with a normal video. thanks again for the answer!!
you answered it yourself.
"xbox only has a 733mhz intel pentium-iii cpu which does not have the processing power to decode those hdtv-media-resolutions "
and the solution is:
"dreamx-1480 from friendtech, which has a 1480mhz pentium-iii that is capable of decoding hdtv-media up to 720p"
from those 2 quotes you see that the main component that has isues with decoding 720p htv is the cpu (as apparently even with the friendtech upgrade, you cant decode 1080i, so the only resolution that youd get for the upgrade is 720p). no where does it say that upgrading the ram will help, even then the cpu cant decode those streams. so just go ahead and get the dreamx if decoding 720p content is that important to you.
what exactly, besides a few clips from ms on thier website, do you plan on watching on the xbox that has that 720p resolution?
Metalmyth
2004-09-28, 18:56
btw... the reason i asked about the ram is that the dreamx 1480 comes with an upgrade of 128 megs so of course what i was wondering could it be that just a ram upgrade get around this problem and no one has really tested it that way? thanks again
well, im sure that if the ram upgrade affected the ability to play hd streams, it would be noted on the dreamx website, since its not, they only say the cpu needs to be upgraded to play hd streams.
id still like to know what your going to watch that needs that sort of power. i to have a hdtv, and am always on the lookout for new stuff to play on it.
Metalmyth
2004-09-29, 03:32
hi sigtom
once again thanks for the reply it does make sense. for a home dvd player i have a lg dv7832nxc *this player allows me to upsample a normal dvd to hdtv resolutions. after reading a post by "jmarshall" (one of the developers ) talking about the xbmc and ms dash dvd player..says the following:
"xbmc does upsample nicely to hdtv modes, whereas the ms dash does not (hacked it can do 480p though)."
although i could be wrong i believe his statement means that by enabling the "upsample video to gui resolution" in the "my video's" settings and run the xbmc interface (skin) at the 1080i or 720p setting you will upsample any video's you play.
i do know that when running the skin at 1080i and videos that normally won't launch running off the network share (see my thread above) simply turning this option off then allows the video to launch and the tv indicates it is 480p. as well when running videos off the hd with this option enabled the tv indicates that the source is 1080i or 720p depending on what i have the skin set to. if possible could one of the developers confirm if my understanding is correct?
jmarshall
2004-09-29, 12:38
you are correct. running videos off the network uses a cache in ram, so uses more memory. it's obviously getting kinda low in 1080i mode when you are upsampling videos to the gui resolution (ie playing the video in 1080i or whatever) - try reducing your cache. more memory would help in this issue, but if reducing the cache causes all your videos to run in 1080i, and doesn't effect performance, you don't need the extra memory, obviously.
xbmc 1.0 manages to decode "hrhdtv" xvid (high definition rips) without problems. it doesn't manage 1280*720 mpeg2 .ts though, but i'm not convinced that's due to lack of cpu rather than synchronization issues.
:cool: has anyone done the 128 meg memory upgrade to their xbox? does xbmc support the upgrade, and if so does it improve performance. i know that most games won't use the extra memory, but it seems to me more memory would only improve how xbmc handles pics and music. :thumbsup:
maybe 0.0000001% has this upgrade, so optimizing for it i doubt we have.
but maybe you could view larger pics with it, i dont know.
passing the thread to a dev with more knowledge
Gamester17
2004-11-22, 15:09
yes xbmc do support 128mb ram. ...and yes it's a benifit for things such as picture viewing, (and currently vobsubs subtitles too)
forgive me for not knowing the way xbmc works internally (memory mgmt, swap files, etc) but does it make xbmc faster?in what ways does it make pic viewing better?
i'm trying to decide if i should "upgrade"to 128 mb.
thanks!
if we support 128mb, then that would mean xbmc could handle larger pictures with the upgrade. same with subtitles, larger.
Gamester17
2004-11-24, 12:52
forgive me for not knowing the way xbmc works internally (memory mgmt, swap files, etc) but does it make xbmc faster?
no, more memory alone does not make xbmc run any faster, (because the speed on the memory and memory-bandwith remain the same)
hei.
i have fitted 64mb extra ram to my box.
did this just for the fun of it, i know that there is not much use for it, exectp som emulators and subtitles in xbmc. but:
is it possible to build the xbmc from source making som changes to it so it takes advantage of the extra mem?
kjetil
if you have to ask... i guess the answer would be no (in your case)
right..
well ok. at least i got a answer.
but is it theoreticaly possible?
right..
well ok. at least i got a answer.
but is it theoreticaly possible?
imo : the only think you can do is to increase stream buffer size ... :od
ps: why not add an output ( video+audio) buffer ... with this, 128 mb will be really use, to keep smooth playback on hight bitrate movies ... with hd streams for exemple ... :d
right..
well ok. at least i got a answer.
but is it theoreticaly possible?
imo : the only think you can do is to increase stream buffer size ... :od
ps: why not add an output ( video+audio) buffer ... with this, 128 mb will be really use, to keep smooth playback on hight bitrate movies ... with hd streams for exemple ... *:d
thanks mate!
allready tuned most off the buffers but what did you mean by:
add an output?
adjust buffers in gui ore file?
right..
well ok. at least i got a answer.
but is it theoreticaly possible?
imo : the only think you can do is to increase stream buffer size ... :od
ps: why not add an output ( video+audio) buffer ... with this, 128 mb will be really use, to keep smooth playback on hight bitrate movies ... with hd streams for exemple ... :d
thanks mate!
allready tuned most off the buffers but what did you mean by:
add an output?
adjust buffers in gui ore file?
today, mplayer decompress a frame, and this frame is send to display via xbmc ( not really in straight line ... but it's like it ) ...
so when a bitrate peak happens, you got dropped frame, because xbox cpu can't decompress it in one vbl time ( 1/50s for pal & 1/60s for ntsc ) ... but if there is an ouput buffer (allowed by 64mb+ ), mplayer compute frame ( at the speed it can do ), xbmc store it in buffer, and take from buffer to display ...
this is an fifo frame buffer ... not coded today because there is no memory free with classic xbox ... :p
but with this and 128mb of ram, i think xbox could play hd movies without frame dropped ... :thumbsup: ... today it can't ...
... hum ... u got it ... or not ? :(
maybe a new feature ?! ... :idea:
ok
think i got it..
can this be the reason why movies stutter when there is scene chages ore a lot of changes to the video (paning a camere over crouded street)?
so its not for me to do this change, then i had alter the source and compile it myselfe?
if so i need to learn, fast! :nuts:
so its not for me to do this change, then i had alter the source and compile it myselfe?
you can do that ... but maybe dev team may to it for you, and for them with 128mb ram ...
post in new feature ... you will see what they say ... :idea:
right..
i'll do that.
thank you for helping!
appriciate it
hei.
i,ve added a extra 64megs of ram to my box, just for the fun of it. i know that it's not realy useful but!
acourding to this it can be!
http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin....t=10100 (http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.pl?act=st;f=1;t=10100)
Gamester17
2005-01-26, 18:10
xbmc already supports 128mb ram, go into system info to check, though it isn't of much benifit other than large pictures in my pictures and large vobsubs.
it isn't much help in hdtv playback either, the bottleneck there is the cpu and not the memory, ...btw, more memory doesn't mean faster :shifty: just more.
the extra 64mb ram in the xbox cannot be used for picture or video display purposes as the graphics card has no access to it. you don't really gain much from it.
the extra 64mb ram in the xbox cannot be used for picture or video display purposes as the graphics card has no access to it. you don't really gain much from it.
arrrghhhh ... :tear:
and in your opinion, is it possible to "free" first 64mb from all possible and put this in second ram part ... finaly use this free mem for display purpose ... like output buffer ... ???
so after all there is nothing that can be done to xbmc code to benefit the extra mem?
and hey if anyone want to have more ram installed i could do it, but i guess it's not much use for it :lol:
arrrghhhh ... *:tear:
and in your opinion, is it possible to "free" first 64mb from all possible and put this in second ram part ... finaly use this free mem for display purpose ... like output buffer ... *???
that's done automatically already by the xdk memory manager. however you can't really move that much stuff up to the upper 64mb - most of the gui memory is textures, which have to be kept in video card accessable memory.
ok ... :tear: ... thanks for info ...
and if user interface is 100% cpu drawed ?
... texture not have to be in first bank
... but maybe not easy to do ... and cpu not enought fast ...
[edit] or i think mplayer can render frame directly in second bank ( 0% cpu more work ) ... is it long to copy a frame from second to first bank ? ... how many % of the time that elapse between 2 vbl ?
does the xbox have a memory block transfer chipset ( like blitter on amiga / atari-ste ) , and if, can operate on second memory bank ?
maybe a lot of work ... for minor % of users ... http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/cry.gif
so if i understand this correctly the gpu cannont acces the extra mem, because it's originally not supposed to..
but
this needs to be set up somwhere, could it be in the bios itselfe, ore in the kernel.? maybe it's in a eeprom?
i'm 100% sure that this can be changed because the box was originally designed to use 128mb
so if i understand this correctly the gpu cannont acces the extra mem, because it's originally not supposed to..
but
this needs to be set up somwhere, could it be in the bios itselfe, ore in the kernel.? maybe it's in a eeprom?
i'm 100% sure that this can be changed because the box was originally designed to use 128mb
or maybe the gpu databus don't go to second ram bank ... and the only thing you can do ( lol ) is cry ... :p
i think it's a hard thing you ask for ... really understand a mother board is not an easy task ... but maybe you're right, and a simple jumper can enable second bank, but imo nobody exept m$ people can answer ...
he he.
yes seb.26 your right no esay task this, might even be impossible but one have to try:)
i'm not an expert at all but my guess is that the lines from the gpu is not directly to the ram but is assignet memory locations in the ram from bios?
maybe ... i don't know ...
... to be continued ...
lot of questions/points here.
cpu draw - too slow.
blitter chip - no, all memory copies are done via the cpu (usually 4 or 8 bytes at a time).
moving a block from the low bank to the high bank will only occur during an allocation - if you try to allocate low memory and there isn't any it'll move a block of possible (slowly).
nor sure on enabling access. the xbox memory controller is on the gpu so it has hardware access to all 128mb. however the xdk functions to allocate memory for the gpu will not allocate memory from the upper 64mb. it would basically mean rewriting the memory management subsystem entirely to enable it's use. bios flashing won't help at all.
well ok.
this makes sense. am i right to asume that the memory alocation is controlled by the bios?
so if someone had the source code for the original bios it would be possible to rewrite it and compile a new bios file?
however the xdk functions to allocate memory for the gpu will not allocate memory from the upper 64mb. it would basically mean rewriting the memory management subsystem entirely to enable it's use.
does a memory block allocated by gnu compiler is usable in m$ xdk ... for exemple, create a very simple library with gnu compiler to only allocate gpu memory ... and use it in m$ xdk ...
nb: this only if gnu compiler allow memory allocation in the upper 64mb ... :nuts:
the gnu libs do not work on xbox. currently xbmc emulates all gnu library calls via the xdk to obtain proper behaviour from mplayer (including malloc/free). memory allocated for use in gnu code can be from the upper or lower 64mb, however it is not accessable by the gpu directly.
Kjetil N
2005-02-03, 12:07
so there is a boundery somwhere making it impossible for the gpu to use the extra mem.
what contolls the gpu memory communication?
does it have its own flash? (like a normal gfx pc card)
ore does the gpu itself hold a flash?
could it be possible to mod the mainboard, do some flashing to make the gpu directly acess more mem?
it can be done one a gfx card and my guess is that the hardware in the xbox is not that different?
it must be possible, not easy at all but possible. if not why is it room for more mem?
sorry, when i wrote gnu, i thinkf about openxdk ... because i've read post about last release ... but maybe it's the same, and the problem is the same too ...
in any case, does anybody try to add a frame transfer from upper to lower mem ( copy the whole bytes output by mplyer ) ... to see if it is about 0.5% of a "frame time" ( 0.04s ) or if it's more about 20% ...
because if it's about 1% i thing it's a possible solution to have a process who render ( via mplayer in slave mode ) directly in upper ram and another who take next frame from upper, put it in lower ( via copy ) and display it ...
maybe i'm wrong or what i say have no sense ... so excuse me if ... :blush:
can xbmc use 128mb to play video?
in 64mb xbox
when i play hdtv video , i notice freemem soon to 2mb->1mb->0, when zero the video auto stop.
in 128mb xbox
the freemem soon to 64mb-> 63mb->62mb , then the video stop.
i think , xbmc not use 128mb ram .
can xbmc support 128mb to play video?
i run xbmc at 1080i and as i've learned, 64mb of ram just doesn't cut it.
if i upgrade the ram to 128mb, will xbmc take advantage of it?
has anyone else tried?
jeffmcclain
2006-02-05, 22:20
:cool: has anyone done the 128 meg memory upgrade to their xbox? does xbmc support the upgrade, and if so does it improve performance. i know that most games won't use the extra memory, but it seems to me more memory would only improve how xbmc handles pics and music. :thumbsup:
yes, and yes.
jeffmcclain
2006-02-05, 22:28
the extra 64mb ram in the xbox cannot be used for picture or video display purposes as the graphics card has no access to it. you don't really gain much from it.
from one who uses 1080i output a lot and have done several 128mb upgrades and can monitor the free memory usage on my x3lcd compared to my 64mb boxes, i can point blank 100% tell you that having 128mb for 1080i does help. in many cases, i can't even play back some streams with a 64mb box and 1080i (like the cnn py video streams), because it uses all the available memory for cache, and then just drops out of the playback (helps to drop the cache for those, but you do begin to get play back pauses even over a pretty good dsl connection). same thing goes for 720p and tivo .ty streaming. i can watch the free memory go to 0mb, the player blanks and blam...back to the xbmc menu/dash.
regards,
-jm
jeffmcclain
2006-02-06, 17:17
oh, one other thing, however. i'm not saying that the additional memory will help all playback, just that in many cases, it helps, especially if you are upconverting normal playback to 1080i and are getting low on memory.
for example, a high bit rate 720p divx encode of madagascar (you can download from the divx web page) ends up dropping about a hundred frames in the 2 or 3 minute clip (mostly in a scene transition where you spike the bit rate). 128mb upgrade did nothing for that, which means it is raw cpu limited...
-jm
atisvt99
2006-02-22, 19:21
good lord! 4 pages and my eyes have gone crossed... i don't stream a lot of video over my network, but i have noticed uncomfortable delays when browsing pictures from my server (taken with a 5mp camera???)... will adding more memory help this issue any? or am i looking at another issue... thanks for the input, and hopefully a nice straight forward answer! :)
- justin
diagdave@msn.com
2006-02-22, 19:36
no
Hello out there,
since over two years now the XBoxes of my friends and mine work pretty fine with 128 MB and GentooX. GentooX uses all the memory without any failure.
But all the time various XBMC versions won't detect the RAM upgrade.
Now I have read on one of these forum threads, that XBMC surely should recognize the upgrade and display the memory amount in the info page.
Other apps, capable of using 128 MB also don't find / show the upgrade.
So please, can anyone tell me, what we have made wrong with our update?
Is the EvoX BIOS or the Dashboard to be patched to use or forward the additional RAM to other XBE-apps?
Must there be a jumper or something else be soldered to use the RAM?
Why can GentooX detect and use actually the RAM?
I also tried the tool, which toggles the 128 MB usage bit in a XBE, but this was also no success!
Thank you so much so far for your help!
jiz_king
2006-10-16, 22:42
All builds have showed 128MB OK for me for at least the past year.
Hi jiz_king,
thank you for your reply.
I have read, that XBMC should view the 128 MB on its info page, but on our four XBoxes it doesn't. All XBoxes pretend to have only 64 MB under XBMC, whereas GentooX perfectly detects and uses the whole 128 MB of RAM.
We therefore thought the last two years, that this was a bug of XBMC!
Now, since some days, we now, that isn't!
We all have the simple Aladin Mod-Chip with EvoX BIOS M8 flashed onto and the evoxdash.xbe Version 5835 (the newest).
GentooX and XBMC is started through evoxdash.xbe, located at drive G: and renemaed to default.xbe (as entered via EVTool in the M8 BIOS).
Also included is the LBA48 patch and 160 or 250 MB HDDs are used.
Somewhere in the web I have read, that the XBox scans the memory at the beginning and calculates the whole ram amount at the point, where the first access error occurs. So the XBox always should detect the correct ram size.
But as statet, our 4 boxes won't detect the upgrade in normal "XBox app mode", only under Linux.
Under one of the 4 Boxes is one, which was upgraded by a professional XBox Modding service. The soldering of this box looks best, but their behaviour is the same.
The latest XBMC V2.0 TCH3 build 3-10 also detects only 64 MB.
I can hardly believe, that we have made any mistake.
We think, the 128 MB have to be activated under normal XBox OS somehow, maybe in the BIOS?
Can you give us some hints, concerning this?
I have seen in your profile, that you use no Mod-Chip and the X3 BIOS.
Can it be, that M8 can't access 128 MB and X3 can?
Sorry if this seems like an attempt to hijack your thread, but I'm curious to know what are the benefits of more RAM in XBMC, and is it worth cashing out for the upgrade?
xbmc is pretty much constrained by the xbox's memory. where this can cause problems is in 1080i mode where xbmc runs on the edge. you need to turn the video caches down, and disable services like the web remote, ftp etc. more memory would help in this case. it would also help with database access. queries can crash when the resultant table is too large.
Hello,
all the points, where more memory would be helpful to XBMC, Kraqh3D has stateted, I never have taken into account.
I am amazed how much is affected in XBMC, having more memory.
The only function, I often use and which my also benefit from the upgrade, is viewing large pictures of cameras or scanners and zooming deeply into it. Elder XBMC versions often crashed when doing this (the newer versions I have not tested this until now).
By the way I / we have not upgraded our XBoxes to the purpose of XBMC. It always was the focus to GentooX.
KDE and various other applications are totally slowed down to a level on 64MB machines, where you can not or you soon won't work any more.
But if you now have 128MB GentooX machines and spent a lot of time and a little money for doing the ram upgrade, you also want to have the ram upgrade benefits for all the native XBox applications you are running besides GentooX.
And this is, what we don't understand. Why is the upgrade not visible to all the so called homebrew SW, running under the native XBox OS?
What have you done or how are your XBoxes configured (mod-chip, BIOS and so on), that you can see and use the extended memory with homebrew SW and especially with XBMC. Is there any additional modification to be done to activate the extended ram banks via e.g a soldering switch on the PCB?
GentooX as I know tests for ram banks and calculates the amount on the first address access error, so ram banks have to be coherent.
When doing the ram upgrade for the XBoxes I painful made the experience, that any smallest HW error (bad or not so good looking soldering of the ram devices; low resistance, caused from collophonium mud after soldering between the pins and so on) results in a broken XBox, doing the so called "christmas tree" LED cycle, where the XBox attempts to boot for three times and starts blinking in all colours afterwards, showing all the time a dark picture.
I have upgraded 3 of the 4 Boxes and none of the 3 worked, when switched on for the firtst time after doing the upgrade. Several hours I sat there with my magnifying glass and my Ohm meter, inspecting all the 400 pins of the devices for short circuit, dust and bad soldering. A lot of cleaning spray (mankind will foregive my contribution to the ozone hole at this point) in conjunction with a hard brush made most XBoxes alive again. I have sworn in that rough times never doing such an upgrade in my live again!
Therefore one of the 4 Boxes was upgraded by a professional game console modding company, but also this box shows the same behaviour as those upgraded by me.
Maybe you now have a little feeling, why it means a lot for me also having the upgrade benefit with XBMC!
Why the hell won't our sh... XBoxes recognize the upgraded ram under the native OS?
This can't be so complicated! GentooX works fine round the clock since two years, using more than 117 MB of physical memory. Some Boxes really were turned on for over a whole year without any down time!! They were used as data servers.
Nowadays you would say NAS device to such a thing :)
Regarding pictures... Yes, in the past high mega-pixel images were be a problem but that's changed. To work around the memory issues with pictures, the picture is read in chunks and downsized in memory before being displayed. This has a negative side effect of it takes longer for the first picture to be displayed. In a slideshow, all subsequent pictures come up immediately because the "next" one is queued up.
nnunodark
2006-11-16, 11:19
Is it actually possible? My friend says it took is xbox to an expert and he upgraded his ram on the xbox. if it can be done i am going to get an upgrade. i just dont know because xbox ram is different from the pc so i have my doubts because i have no idea where he (the expert) gets yhe ram
nnunodark
2006-11-16, 11:47
i just saw the inside of his xbox, its true. dont know if it is actually an upgrade just know that it is a different RAM module
Yeah, its possible. An expert has to do it. Coz he has to remove the old ram module from mainboard and put a new module into it. Its not just plug and play. So you have to know what you are doing.
Sollie.
nnunodark
2006-11-16, 11:57
yeah. i am meeting the guy today i may just get the upgrade today.
nnunodark
2006-11-16, 12:02
People of portugal if you want me to get you in contact with this guy just post in thread.
Se alguem de portugal quiser conhecer este homem postem neste forum
You have to know that xbmc doesnt use extra ram, 64 mb is hardcoded. For using 128 mb memory you have to change some lines into the xbmc sourcecode. I am not a coder, so dont ask me.
Sollie.
nnunodark
2006-11-16, 12:09
I will see if i can changed it. Anyway will it work in games?
I dont think so. Read this topic:
http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6276&highlight=128
Maybe i was wrong about editing source lines.
Sollie.
PS: maybe you should consider not to do this upgrade. I think only some emulators will work and linux systems.
nnunodark
2006-11-16, 12:53
yeah its not worth it. thanks sollie. still the guy makes a lot of money selling to people that dont know about this.
Your welcom, i am glad i could help.
Sollie.
nnunodark
2006-11-16, 20:32
my friend tried to get his money back but no luck. everyone else dont upgrade your ram learn from the mistakes of others
Hi Emperor,
Well, I must tell you that I never had a problem with my ram upgrade.
I did it myself, and both gentoox and xbmc detect the 128mb for more than a year. I used a lot of T3CH compilations and all of them displayed the 128mb.
When I first installed the extra memory I used a program to check if it was ok or not:
I uploaded it here :
http://rapidshare.com/files/9936622/xbmemcheck.rar.html
The program will give you some errors at the end of the ram because it is probably where the program is running.
I would like to ask a question to kraqh3d or any other developer, as I have searched the forums and didn't find any definitive answer:
Is XBMC able to use the 128mb if needed? ( the compiles made by T3CH)
Hi Finas,
thank you very, very much for the helpful tool. I have not thought any more, anybody is responding to my thread!
I just downloaded and executed the tool with the following status report printed:
J
Tested memory: 131072
Memoryblocks OK: 54987
Memory Blocks ERROR: 0
Blocks not able to allocate: 76085
Number of CRC errors: 0
(By the way, what does the "J" mean in the left upper corner of the screen?)
It confirms that our XBoxes don't recognize or I will better say don't activate the additional 64MB of RAM in the native XBox OS mode.
As we have several XBoxes with RAM upgrade (and one of it was upgraded by a professional company) and none of them activates / recognizes the whole RAM, I think that our problem must be a matter of SW. I am quite sure, we and the company haven't made any mistake during upgrade. The Samsung chips soldered onto the empty foot prints on the PCB are the same as the original ones, but a little faster in access time.
We have checked every pin to its neighbours and against ground and found no error / short circuit and Gentoox runs and uses the whole memory amount!
We all have identical machines, board revision 1.4 and the Aladin blue chip with I think 256 kB Flash, capable to store only one BIOS at a time. As BIOS we all use a modified M8 BIOS (modified with the EBVtool). Modified are only some color settings and the paths and names, where to load the default executables.
In another thread somewhere in the web I have read, that XBMC has to be compiled with a special switch to make it use the additional RAM. Are the compilations of T3CH done with this switch beeing active?
As your experience tells me, T3CH has apparently activated this switch.
Another tool I have tried in the mean time was mame128. It also doesn't recognize the upgrade.
My theory is, that the M8 BIOS or the modchip is responsible for not activating the whole RAM:
The Pentium-III processor has an integrated MMU. And the MMU I think is not programmed correctly by the BIOS to map the address space above the standard 64MB to the new available physical space.
For example I had a "weired" PC in the past with a curious BIOS, there you had to validate / select the detected RAM after an upgrade, otherwise it was not visible to any SW.
GentooX I think starts during its Bootloader its own BIOS (a modified cromwell or somewhat) and does a machine initializing of its own.
During this procedure the RAM is auto detected and configured correctly and therefore becomes visible.
As Linux recognizes the whole RAM, I think also its proved, that the aladin modchip is not responsible for our RAM ignoration.
So my questions are:
1) is my theory of the MMU configuration right
2) is there therefore a special BIOS or BIOS patch necessary to activate the RAM above the standard 64 MB
3) what BIOS are the people using, which can access 128 MB through XBMC
3) are there additional solderings (hidden switches / jumpers) to be done besides a one to one soldering of each RAM chip pin to the spare locations prints
4) are there additional wirerings necessary to one of the chipset chips to e.g. connect the new chip select signals (I dont't believe this, since Linux even works ...)
5) is there anybody on this planet using a simple standard aladin modchip with M8 BIOS and having 128 MB within XBMC
Thanks so far and it would give me great pleasure if you or anybody could help me and answer my questions.
Hi folks,
with the help of finas great memory tool I was sure, my theory of the wrong initialized MMU must be correct.
I searched the internet and I found the following page in an I think scandinavian language I didn't understand:
http://www.tdubel.com/artikkelit/x2evoxbios.html
which states the fact, that M8 BIOS doesn't support RAM upgrades.
I flashed an old X2 4981 BIOS and - oh wonder - all the memory now is recognized by finas tool and by XBMC.
But I would prefer to stay with M8, so does anybody know a patch for M8 to support more than the standard 64 MB?
Well, I can tell you that
- I have a chamaleon modchip on a 1.2 xbox, with the latest x2 bios released ( 5035)
- I just soldered the extra 64 mb chips nothing more, nothing less.
- XBMC display a memory value of 128mb ( but I still don't know if it makes use of it or not!!! )
- Mameox displays, and uses the 128mb ( I know this because some roms only work with more than 64mb on early mameox versions). Bender mameox has virtual memory support and works ok with 64mb xboxes)
- gentoox and debian also detect and use the 128mb.
In the end, I belive that you do have a bios problem. If I remember correctly, the development xboxes that were sent to developers had 128mb of ram and a special bios with debug flag on, and also with support for initializing the extra ram.
About the memory test tool:
I don't remember from where I got it!!! I remember talking with the developer, and he also was very surprised that someone was actualy using it. He told me that he wrote the program to test if it was possible to address more than 64mb, but he never had tried it on a 128mb xbox ( if I recall correctly).
I forgot everything else, I'm sorry.
Anyway, as you can see, in your xbox, the program cannot alocate the extra 64mb. It ony goes up to 54mb, the rest till 64 is probably used by the program itself. Mine wold go past 100 if I recall.
I think the J means nothing.
I belive that there is a X2 bios that is 256kb. Maybe you want to try to flash that one..
oops.. didn't saw your second thread!
Nice to see that you got it working :)
Hello finas,
thanks very much for your quick reply.
Do you know wether the X2 4983 (I think this was the last 256k BIOS) will work with my aladin, or are there code parts for the Xecuter mod chip in it that won't run on the aladin. Your 5035 BIOS I think I have read wishes to have 512k of flash.
senorphatnutz
2007-01-08, 05:57
As the subject suggests, I'd like to know if upgrading my RAM to 128MB will increase the performance of XBMC when running in 1080i mode.
Please don't flame if this has been asked, I searched a number of different terms and didn't find anything useful.
Advice or a link to a helpful post/artical/tutorial/whatever is greatly appreciated.
I modded my box myself a while ago, maybe 5 years at this point and have done a number of mods for others. I know the 128 upgrade is useful for development, homebrew and running linux but have never attempted it. I don't want to bother until I know it will be worth my while. However, I haven't been able to determine by reading if XBMC will address this extra memory and use it to benefit 1080i operation.
This whole thing was prompted by my recent upgrade to an HDTV. I can't get streaming of trailers or most .mp4 vids to work while in 1080i but it does work in ntsc 16x9 mode. Reviewing my logs show that memory errors pop when trying to stream trailers or watch .mp4 videos over my LAN. Hence the newfound desire to add more memory.
no. to put it in the most basic terms possible, a RAM upgrade won't do anything of consequence for XBMC.
senorphatnutz
2007-01-08, 06:07
Thanks for the quick reply. Is there a tweaking guide that I can use to reduce the memory usage in 1080i as much as possible, so as to get those streams and .mp4 vids working without going to a lower resolution?
the default skin Project Mayhem III is a little heavy on the graphics, but right now there's no skin that comes as close to its completeness. Smokehead's new project Clearity will probably end up being a good choice one he finishes building it. It's currently like 3.75 MB in size, while PMIII is around 29 MB. Of course, in both cases not all of that is in memory all the time, but I think others have discussed this before and said similair stuff to what I am saying.
In addition to the skin, you'll wanna turn off all the servers you aren't using, as each has overhead associated with it. Some of the people on here are very heavily into the HD stuff so they will have better advice.
I disagree, it doesn't do much for direct performance as you say, however it does quite alot for being able to play high rez content with large cache. We are very limited for memory in 1080i.
It's a quite common occurance that we run out of memory in that mode as you can see on this forum.
It's won't make any video play faster, but it will make it less likely you will crash due to lack of memory.
Finally! the answer I wanted to hear!
Just to get this straight.. If I am running in 1080i mode and have 128MB of ram in my XBOX, I won't be running into memory issues anymore?
The reason I am asking is, my TV can only display 480p or 1080i, so I have XBMC running in 1080i with PMIII and am upsampling all my movies to 1080i as well.. needless to say it does crash quite a bit and I am pondering with the idea of putting in the extra 64MB of ram..
Yeah I'm still looking into this mod also... I access to SMT (surface mount technology) soldering kit, just need the extra RAM chips....
Also I have noticed that Dreamtech did a processor upgrade... not the 1.4ghz thingy but the same 733mhz PIII but with the 256k cache... would this help performance for HD playback in XBMC? Thinking about having a tinker! :nerd: not an easy job but I have SMT'd 386 processors in the past with a good success rate! :nod:
Gamester17
2007-01-09, 17:33
64MB RAM memory upgrade to 128MB RAM memory will not be of much benefit to XBMC during video playback (nor for music with visualization) as XBMC's MPlayer and DVDPlayer cores are not designed to take advantage of the extra the extra memory. (They are however designed to take advanta of a faster 1.4GHz CPU if available).
@senorphatnutz; .mp4 files usually contain MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) video and AAC (Advanced Audio Codec) audio, both of which require much more processing power to be decoded then MPEG-2 / MPEG-4 ASP (H.263) video and MP3 audio. So the CPU is the bottleneck for MP4 video files long before the memory becomes an issue.
Please read these hints and tips from the XBMC online manal for more information
http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/wiki/index.php?title=Appendix_B:_Troubleshooting#Limita tions* With its 733Mhz Intel Pentium III and 64MB shared memory, the Xbox game-console does not have enough hardware-resources (not fast enough CPU nor large enough RAM-memory) to play 720p/1080i resolution-native HDTV video (at 1280x720 and 1920x1080 pixels), (like 720p/1080i WMV HD or MPEG-2). Workaround: XBMC can however upconvert all 480p/576p standard-resolution movies and output them to 720p or 1080i HDTV resolutions in better quality than most (if not all) HDTV's native function to upconvert video.
* Again with its 733Mhz Intel Pentium III and 64MB shared memory, the Xbox does not have enough hardware-resources (not fast enough CPU nor large enough RAM-memory) to play MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) encododed videos with Cabac and Deblocking if the video-resolution is higher than 352x288 pixels. Workaround: If you encode your MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) videos without Cabac and Deblocking then the Xbox hardware can handle up to 480x576 pixels video-resolution. Though best is to encode your videos to MPEG-4 ASP (like DivX or XviD) instead, then the videos native-resolution can be up to 960x540 pixels (a.k.a. HRHD resolution).
http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/wiki/index.php?title=Appendix_B:_Troubleshooting#I_use_ XBMC_in_HDTV_resolution_.28720p_or_1080i.29_and_wh en_I_try_play_a_video_or_audio_file.2Fstream_it_fa ils.2C_what_can_I_do.3FQ: I use XBMC in HDTV resolution (720p or 1080i) and when I try play a video or audio file/stream it fails, what can I do?
A: Most likely you are running out of available RAM (Random Access Memory). The Xbox hardware only comes equipped with 64MB of unified RAM, (which means that system and graphics memory are shared, unlike a standard PC where they are separate dedicated memory for both the system and the graphics, and usally both are much larger than 64MB by themself). 64MB of total RAM is not a lot, and is especially limiting at high-definition HDTV like 720p (1280x720) and 1080i (1920x1080) pixel-resolutions. This means that when you use 720p or 1080i you have to be mindful of things that can take up memory:
Cache sizes (especially video cache, this does normaly not have to be larger than 2MB, maybe 4MB or max 8MB or wireless)
Skin used (some skins use more memory than others, try to use XBMC default Project Mayhem 3 skin)
Enabled servers/services (WebServer, FTP-server, Python)
If you are having problems in 1080i then try if it works better in 720p (if your display supports 720p that is)
Try running video-playback at a lower resolution than the GUI, for example videos in 720p and GUI in 1080i
Due to the shortage of RAM, it may be a wise idea to turn off all of the listed servers/services at first until you know what can be sustained. Also lowering the video/audio/stream cache size to 1MB, (which is more than enough for playback over a wired local network). If you use wireless, then you may need it slightly higher, (though expect other problems with streaming video over wireless, see Wireless Specific Tips for more information).
http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/wiki/index.php?title=What_is_XBMC_%26_What_Can_it_Do%3F #Does_XBMC_and_Xbox_support_HDTV_.28High_Definitio n_TV.29_resolutions.3F.2C_and_HDTV_media.3FQ: Does XBMC and Xbox support HDTV (High Definition TV) resolutions?, and HDTV media?
A: Yes and no, but the answer is a little more complicated than that, you see: Xbox/XBMC can output a 480p/720p/1080i signal (if you have a Xbox High Definition AV Pack/component cable) and upscale all low-resolution videos (like retail DVD-Video/Movies) to 720p (1280x720 pixels progressive) or 1080i (1920x1080 pixels interlaced) in hardware (linear upscale/upconvert). So XBMC have no problems with upscaling for example DVD-Video (720x480 NTSC/720x756 PAL) movies to HDTV 480p/720p/1080i. XBMC is even capable of playing native HD video (video/movies with native resolutions higher than 720x576) like 720p (1280x720) and 1080i (1920x1080), however there is here a big snag/limitation with that and that is that a standard Xbox only has a 733Mhz Intel Pentium-III CPU (processor) and that does not have the processing power to decode those native HD videos fast enough, (Microsoft® and DivX® recommends a 2.4 Ghz PC + 384MB RAM for 720p MPEG-4 playback!). This means that you might only get maybe 10-20fps (frames per seconds) displayed which would appear so jerky because of all dropped frames that it will be un-viewable. The only real solution if you want to play videos with native HD resolutions on Xbox is to buy or upgrade to a non-standard Xbox with a much faster CPU (processor), (like example the DreamX-1400 from FriendTech] which has a 1480Mhz Pentium-III that is at least capable of decoding all native HD videos encodec with MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 ASP (H.263) that are have up to 720p in native HDTV video resolution. FriendTech do offers trade-in). Note! You must enable/setup your HDTV settings in Microsoft dashboard, (on NTSC Xboxes).
To make this even clearer XBMC capability on a standard Xbox (with Intel 733Mhz PIII CPU):
720x480 pixel video output to 480p HDTV (720x480 progressive) = OK! (eg not upscaled).
720x480 pixel video output to 720p HDTV (1280x720 progressive) = OK! (eg upscaled).
720x480 pixel video output to 1080i HDTV (1920x1080 interlaced) = OK! (eg upscaled).
1280x720 pixel progressive video output to 720p HDTV (native 1280x720 progressive) = FAIL!
1920x1080 interlaced video output to 1080i HDTV (native 1920x1080 interlaced) = FAIL!
Note! All above that state FAIL don't actually fail to play, it's just that the Xbox CPU is to slow to decode/render the high resolution so it will drop so may frames (producing stuttering playback) that is will be un-viewable.
64MB RAM memory upgrade to 128MB RAM memory will not be of much benefit to XBMC during video playback (nor for music with visualization) as XBMC's MPlayer and DVDPlayer cores are not designed to take advantage of the extra the extra memory. (They are however designed to take advanta of a faster 1.4GHz CPU if available).
Wonder why posted that when I just said it would benefit, and even the stuff you quoted said so in more words :).
In essence, it doesn't improve playback speeds one single bit. It will however reduce the likelyhood of memory crashes wich are quite frequent if you enable all features in xbmc and play a high res file (xvid ex. as those work fine 720 most of the time). Or just enable noise filter and/or PP (yea i know it's not available from gui).
Gamester17
2007-01-09, 18:54
@elupus, since both Msan and Geeba still asked after you explanied it I didn't think futher explaination would hurt :eek:
Ok, I must be stupid, or I just can't read properly..
64MB RAM memory upgrade to 128MB RAM memory will not be of much benefit to XBMC during video playback (nor for music with visualization) as XBMC's MPlayer and DVDPlayer cores are not designed to take advantage of the extra the extra memory. (They are however designed to take advanta of a faster 1.4GHz CPU if available).
Will having 128MB of RAM help me with my "running out of memory" messages when XBMC is trying to start an .avi? sort of like this message:
09:02:49 M: 12353536 SEVERE: DLL: Q:\system\players\mplayer\mplayer.dll : malloc failed, crash imminent (Out of memory requesting 16777216 bytes)
09:02:49 M: 12353536 ERROR: cmplayer:penfile() smb://WBROKOW1/RECORDINGS/Movies/Titanic.1997.SCE-SoT.Epic.Edit-DVDRip.XviD.SoT.cd2.avi failed
09:02:49 M: 19054592 ERROR: Playlist Player: skipping unplayable item: 0, path [smb://WBROKOW1/RECORDINGS/Movies/Titanic.1997.SCE-SoT.Epic.Edit-DVDRip.XviD.SoT.cd2.avi]
Note, this is not from me, I just posted that as an example, but I got similar messages quite a few times.
I don't care about HD 720p movies and such, I just need to play normal stuff, but at 1080i, as my TV only handles that and 480p (and I don't want to go down to 480p)
I also don't care if it speeds things up, only if it helps with these out of memory errors.
Please enlighten the "blind" :)
Good evening ! :)
Got a simple question.
XBMC is running in 1080i here. but i need to disable skin animations (if not, they are slow)
also i got few "memory issues" sometimes.
If i get a 128Mo xbox, does these problems will be solved ? (good skin animations in 1080i, no more memory issues ...)
TIA !
Great explanation! I did realise that the 128Mb RAM upgrade would be little more than "belt and Braces" A bit like high performance air filters for your car! (car tuning my other interest!) they do pretty much nothing but its icing on the cake!
I was wondering more about the 256k cache processor v's the xbox pewny 128k... I have 3 donner mainboards and a 733mhz 256k cache laptop processor that looks almost bang on identical to the xbox item? (need to get it in bits) I wouldnt attempt the 1.4ghz mod thats way out of my league... to be honest I'm not sure on BIOS problems or weather its even worth it or anything as yet... but I have the SMT station access so will have a go when I have a minute..... I used to repair Cisco/3Com/Shiva Networking kit at board level including processor replacement so I'll have a bash! I have to take things apart! Cars, houses, PC's everything! :nerd:
jimbo1960
2007-05-01, 12:47
I love my XBMC running PMIII in 1080i but every time the kids want to watch AMT I have to drop down to 720p.
I have sold myself on the idea of a RAM upgrade and will be dusting off my solder station.
Question is;
Where do you get the memory chips?
I have looked around and unless I want to buy 500 or take them from a dead mother board/graphics card, I can't find any.
Does anyone out there have a valid source for the components (a European location would be prefered)?
Thanks,
Jimbo
About 2 years ago I added 64mb more to one of my xbox's.
I got the memory from here:
http://www.xboxrepairguide.com/64mb-memory-chip-p-769.html
but they now appear to be out of stock
If you can't find a source, you can always desolder the chips from a damaged one that you can get on ebay ;)
jimbo1960
2007-05-02, 13:27
FYI
I located two sources for the chips. One is Thomas Wuensche (Germany) who is mentioned here http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Upgrading_Xbox_RAM_HOWTO
The other is Perplexer from Xbox-Scene (USA) http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showuser=13361
Hi,
I'm sure this must have been asked before but I cant find the answer int eh forum.
I've been playing quite seriously with XBMC.
I've nearly finished housing the lot in a DVD case and it look pretty good so far.
I've just added RAM to 128mb (from an old MB I have).
To start it wouldn't swith on (red/green flashing) I rechecked all my solder connections and decided to remove and re solder one of the chips.
Everything works fine but XBMC is only reporting 64mb. Should the extra ram be automatically detected?
Thanks
Some pics so far!!!
http://i19.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/df/20/cee8_1_sbl.JPG
http://i9.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/df/20/d206_1_sbl.JPG
http://i8.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/df/20/d52f_1_sbl.JPG
http://i2.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/df/20/d839_1_sbl.JPG
http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/df/20/cb19_1_sbl.JPG
Cheers
Gamester17
2008-03-05, 21:07
Everything works fine but XBMC is only reporting 64mb. Should the extra ram be automatically detected?Yes XBMC will detect and display "128MB" as installed RAM if compatible modules are soldered properly.
...but please read the topic thread I moved your post into, the is no real benifit to 128MB RAM.
Thanks for the info.
I've read through the post and most people seem to be talking about trying to run better quality video.
I wanted the extra ram because I can't run slide shows with pics from my 10meg camera at 1080i (crashes trying to load 2nd image) Its all OK at 720.
Will the extra ram help here? I've got about 6 main boards so i'll try another 4 chips if its likely to help.
Many thanks