View Full Version : ToolTip Support for XBMC Options
I build off svn on a regular bases. Sometimes I go through the xbmc options and can't really understand what it does. It would nice to have a tooltip that will show small description what the option is used for or what it does.
[edit] I forgot to say first I do think its a really cool idea!
I'd imagine the main stumbling block would simply be the amount of translation required, and keeping it up to date, settings changes a lot.
At Initial time, yes it will be alot of effort to get the description in place but once it is done, it should be fairly easy to maintain.
I believe the major work here is for Skinners to display the description and Translators. XBMC core will only need to updated to retrieve the description for the particular option.
I thought of this today and thought it to be a pretty good idea and would probably be helpful to users who aren't familiar with XBMC, and as well aren't familiar with the Wiki, or the Forums.
Having this feature would make XBMC more stand alone as a complete solution for the End-User.
I created a ticket for it on trac: http://xbmc.org/trac/ticket/7129
rwparris2
2009-09-02, 20:33
Is asking a user to visit the wiki that unheard of?
Generally using the name of the setting as a search term will yield relevant results.
rwparris2:
Not all users visit xbmc website .. Again it is all about users experience .. If you tell a user to visit a website to get info about a particular option then most likely they will stop using that option or stop using xbmc alltogether because it is too complicated ..
jmarshall
2009-09-03, 01:01
Suggestions on how it would work are welcome.
If it's restricted to the settings screens then it'd be easy to call up the string (assuming the string is in strings.xml) but how to display it needs to be up to the skinners, yet not be a burden to them.
Cheers,
Jonathan
Suggestions on how it would work are welcome.
Cheers,
Jonathan
How about a simple clickable/selectable question mark at the far right of the option(s) that could pop up a dialog with the explanation for the setting as drawn from the strings.xml.
While there could be a generic set of explanations, this could be customized as needed or desired by the skinners...
Just my 2 cents.
jmarshall
2009-09-03, 02:36
Any tool tips IMO would be automated (just sit on the settings for 2 seconds)
All that's needed then is the tool tip dialog - xbmc could handle the placement of it onscreen I should think.
needtotest
2009-09-06, 23:22
Any tool tips IMO would be automated (just sit on the settings for 2 seconds)
All that's needed then is the tool tip dialog - xbmc could handle the placement of it onscreen I should think.
...it might work if it showed like the rss feed. Or if you could click the info button on the remote to get details for the function you are standing on.
But it would indeed be a nice feature.
/needtotest
I think that how the tip appears, and where it is located on screen should play a role in the deciding factors.
Say for example, the upscaling options. The tooltip dialog would have to be large enough to cover a brief description of each of the options available for upscaling, along with an overview of what upscaling is. Giving the user the ability to make an educated decision on which to choose. This could be helpful if choosing one option requires more CPU power over another option, much like in FPS games when choosing graphics settings.
I thought at first that it might be nice to have a field that is always left available on screen to display this information, but I'm not sure about other skins as I've only used Project Mayhem.
Also, I think using the info button (Same one that brings up properties of a file/movie/tvshow) to bring up the dialog box would be beneficial because it might be confusing to the user if a dialog box starts showing up out of no where for no apparent reason. It might also frustrate them if they have to press a button to exit the dialog.
I think the strings.xml would be a good route to make it translatable by the users, and allow them to offer translations in their native languages and submit them back to the team. I think it's important that the strings be able to handle "new lines," as the example above would require several of them to be easily readable.
I'm not sure how placement would work since I've only seen one skin but I would imagine that it wouldn't really matter as long as the box would relatively centered in the view, and was big enough to get the important text on the screen, and offer a scroll bar for really big descriptions. Also it should have an X at the top for mouse clicks and be leaveable with the back/cancel buttons.
I think i'm going to try and GIMP something up for a visual.
--
Nevermind GIMPing, I found the perfect example. In the Project Mayhem III HD, the About XBMC box that shows up after hitting "About XBMC" on the first Settings page. This box (without the auto-scrolling) would be a perfect tool to use for this purpose. Maybe change the dimensions to be wider instead of taller to fill more of the screen and allow for more text to fit on a single line.
It doesn't have the "X" in the top right corner, but it does exit with "Escape" on the keyboard which I would imagine is cancel/back.
Here's a picture of what i'm talking about:
http://nofadz.com/~maxim/pics/screenshot000.png
I am thinking it should be similar to how keyboard character is displayed in xbmc when you try to scroll through a huge list of tv shows .. It should disappear automatically as well ..
It should disappear automatically as well ..I would prefer it not disappear automatically in the case that the window had a lot of information in it. It could be very frustrating for the user.
I would prefer it not disappear automatically in the case that the window had a lot of information in it. It could be very frustrating for the user.
As you probably know, that is what tooltip suppose to do. We can set a time limit for it to disappear.
Another way, is to have a dialog fixed into the skin that provides tool tip.
jmarshall
2009-09-09, 02:23
If we do a tool tip (i.e. a popup per setting that you're hovering on) then a small window that vanishes once you navigate would be the way to go I think.
If on the other hand we do a help window (specifically brought up by the user) then it'd be a larger modal dialog.
I see pros and cons to both approaches. Popup tooltips are useful in settings screens in particular, whereas a help dialog may be more useful in other screens. The help dialog, however, has the disadvantage of being a user-initiated action (it needs a button in the UI for instance)
Cheers,
Jonathan
jmarshall
2009-09-09, 04:06
Out of interest, which settings do you think require tool tip support? In some respects, if you can't some up what a setting does in a short sentence, then it sounds too complicated. Feel free to make a (long) list!
I suspect they're settings that we have on our "we really need to do something about this crap" list. :)
Cheers,
Jonathan
If we do a tool tip (i.e. a popup per setting that you're hovering on) then a small window that vanishes once you navigate would be the way to go I think.
Jonathan
exactly, tip should pop up when you hover for more than ???1 sec, 2 sec???, then disappear when you navigate to the next item....
Sounds good to me.
-Wes
Ohhhh I see what you mean. Yeah, tooltips isn't what I had in mind at all. Sorry for the confusion.
I vote for a help window. I like information and the help window has a greater potential house much more than a ToolTip. However, as jmarshall mentioned, the user has to press a button to initiate it.
#1 The user doesn't know from looking at the screen which buttons do what. On XBOX this was pretty easy, and they do this in games all the time. Just have in one of the lower corners a picture of the Button, right? Well the skinners would have to put that button there, it would have to be dynamic to adjust to change changes in the keymap. In addition what of multiple buttons being available on the same screen? It's just not viable.
#2 If the user actually did know what button to push, does this special dialog box get a special button? Like, F1 on the keyboard for almost every Windows application ever developed? If that's acceptable then that probably wouldn't be all that hard to create a new Action within XBMC for this new help feature.
It seems my suggestion should go into a different thread. Sorry for confusing everyone! Continue on with your ToolTip discussion. :)
I also just found this thread that might have some relevant opinions/ideas about how it could be implemented and for what purposes it could serve: http://www.xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=788
Check the OP, he's got a photoshop of his idea, looks very similar to a ToolTip, jmarshall, you were there too. :-P
I see pros and cons to both approaches. Popup tooltips are useful in settings screens in particular, whereas a help dialog may be more useful in other screens. The help dialog, however, has the disadvantage of being a user-initiated action (it needs a button in the UI for instance)
It doesn't have to be triggered by a button press, it can be triggered by selecting the setting as well.
If we do a tool tip (i.e. a popup per setting that you're hovering on) then a small window that vanishes once you navigate would be the way to go I think.
If on the other hand we do a help window (specifically brought up by the user) then it'd be a larger modal dialog.
I see another way, description text box that is fixed into skin .. It displays a text, when the user selects the settings ..
jmarshall
2009-09-09, 08:17
@Maxim: I'm surprised you found only one thread :p
@CrashX: It'd be up to the skinner to display no matter what we do, so the presentation style of the tool tip really isn't much of an issue (info label and info bool and we're done).
The big questions are:
1. Are tool tips the answer? (I'm not convinced, perhaps because they've been abused wherever I've seen them in use, but feel free to persuade me.)
2. Is a more general "Help" button (it would definitely have to be a focusable button in the UI, and ofcourse mappable to an button) more useful?
3. Would it be better to just get rid of (or change) those settings that can't be understood. If you can't explain it simply, then how is a user supposed to understand whether it's any use?
A list of the confusing settings would be most helpful.
Cheers,
Jonathan
blacklist
2009-09-09, 17:11
@Maxim: I'm surprised you found only one thread :p
@CrashX: It'd be up to the skinner to display no matter what we do, so the presentation style of the tool tip really isn't much of an issue (info label and info bool and we're done).
The big questions are:
1. Are tool tips the answer? (I'm not convinced, perhaps because they've been abused wherever I've seen them in use, but feel free to persuade me.)
2. Is a more general "Help" button (it would definitely have to be a focusable button in the UI, and ofcourse mappable to an button) more useful?
3. Would it be better to just get rid of (or change) those settings that can't be understood. If you can't explain it simply, then how is a user supposed to understand whether it's any use?
A list of the confusing settings would be most helpful.
Cheers,
Jonathan
IMO:
1. No.
2. Yes. Actually it would make a whole lot of sense if it could be mapped to the "info" button. (not sure what the actual button is called, that's what its mapped to on my remote). This way, when I've got a setting highlighted that I want more information about, I hit the info button and it gives me some sort of brief tutorial on what this setting does.
3. Yes. Honestly, I think most of the settings are fairly self-explanatory. The only place I could see this being helpful at all is when you are in some of the features like Event Server settings... something that an every-day user may not typically get involved with.
Overall, though this seems like a great deal of work for relatively little benefit.
Blacklist.
rwparris2
2009-09-09, 17:24
2. Yes. Actually it would make a whole lot of sense if it could be mapped to the "info" button. (not sure what the actual button is called, that's what its mapped to on my remote). This way, when I've got a setting highlighted that I want more information about, I hit the info button and it gives me some sort of brief tutorial on what this setting does.
This doesn't help new users who wouldn't know to press info.
IMO If anything is to be done onscreen, it should automatically show after highlighting the item x seconds.
blacklist
2009-09-09, 18:09
This doesn't help new users who wouldn't know to press info.
IMO If anything is to be done onscreen, it should automatically show after highlighting the item x seconds.
Or, a simple "Press info for help" at the bottom of the page would suffice.
My point of view is simply that a bunch of little windows popping up if I sit too long on something gets annoying very quickly.
I assume there would be a setting to toggle off the "tool tips" as well for more advanced users?
of course. i'd go crazy with something like that onscreen. it's not for you, it's for noobs.
1. Are tool tips the answer? (I'm not convinced, perhaps because they've been abused wherever I've seen them in use, but feel free to persuade me.)
2. Is a more general "Help" button (it would definitely have to be a focusable button in the UI, and ofcourse mappable to an button) more useful?
3. Would it be better to just get rid of (or change) those settings that can't be understood. If you can't explain it simply, then how is a user supposed to understand whether it's any use?
1&2. This looks like a decision for the skinners to decide on. Some skins will use one method and another skin might use another. I am not sure why we want to decide on which route to take ?
3. True we can do that but ask yourself this question, can you make it so that anyone will understand those settings ? What I think we should do is to get the info we find from xbmc forum and wiki into xbmc itself so that they don't have to go searching for it ..
1/2 is certainly not up to the skinners to decide - we're dynamic but we're not THAT dynamic
1/2 is certainly not up to the skinners to decide - we're dynamic but we're not THAT dynamic
Can you please clearify what skinners can do and can't do ? I see skins like Aeon and I am totally amazed what skinners can do with xbmc ..
i'm not the guy to ask for essays; basically. while aeon et al looks diff and navs different, it's still the same windows, the same dialogs and in general the paradigms wrt browsing etc. there's no skins out there that shows e.g. movies and tvshows in a single listing - it's not doable since those mechanisms are fixed.
i'm not the guy to ask for essays; basically. while aeon et al looks diff and navs different, it's still the same windows, the same dialogs and in general the paradigms wrt browsing etc. there's no skins out there that shows e.g. movies and tvshows in a single listing - it's not doable since those mechanisms are fixed.
Sorry my mistake, I should of made it more clearer, I mean what can and can't do with the above tasks for 1&2 ?
TeknoJnky
2009-09-09, 21:47
Hi, good topic I think.
In my opinion, instead of any type of pop up tooltip or help window, it would be much better for a remote driven application such as xbmc, to have an optional help ticker tape. Something that does not obscure the UI and of course can be disabled if perferred.
The rss feed ticker is a prime example of what I refer to.
my opinion:
I think the approach of having a custom dialog overlayed(ofcourse with the option to turn it off) after a certain time of idle on a setting is the best and most intuitive solution. And then hide it when navigating off the setting.
A help buttons that covers all the setting on a certain page would just be annoying since you probably would have to read a long text. The tooltips imo, would only contain 1-3 sentences. not explain everything about scaling.
some key points:
Let the dialog know it's "parents" position, and if possible make it usable to it as a variable, so you can set the window position to where the parent is, and then position the dialog accordingly.
(as jm wrote) have a infolabel that displays the help of currently(most recent) selected option. This would make both the "autopopupdialog" and the "helppane" possible. (The "helppane" could be fully controlled by the skinner)
have a infolabel that has the setting "id". So that skinners can make custom dialogs for each setting, if they want.
by the way, to have a little icon in the skin that has an "I" or a "?" and by clicking that bringing up a help dialog is already possible if I'm not mistaken. Couldn't you just make a custom dialog and then have a onclick on the button? so for those that want that, just skin away. only problem is that there isn't any language support for it in xbmc.
TeknoJnky
2009-09-09, 22:23
Popups and panels/dialogs assume a primarily mouse driven interface... but how many actually use a mouse as primary input, ie htpc/xbox?
Popups and panels/dialogs assume a primarily mouse driven interface... but how many actually use a mouse as primary input, ie htpc/xbox?
No, it doesn't. how did you come to this conclusion?
Popups and panels/dialogs assume a primarily mouse driven interface... but how many actually use a mouse as primary input, ie htpc/xbox?This isn't entirely true, though the origins a of a "ToolTip" definitely came a mouse driven interface. There isn't a moment, however, in the use of XBMC where there isn't an indicator as to what is selected at the moment. This is often done by a change of color, or a highlight to signify when an item is in focus. At that point is when the ToolTip feature could come into play, and if an item is selected for a certain duration then an action could be executed.
At that point a message in a predefined ticker area (Like a status bar in most applications), or a small window pops up (Like a ToolTip).
It's just an idea to try and help inform the user without them having to go out of the way to get information.
TeknoJnky
2009-09-09, 23:03
agreed, but I would find any popups/dialogs too 'windows centric' and obtrusive to the interface for use on tv centric media system. Who really likes those mousever popup adds/info on web pages, for example.
A tickertape/status area info is much more subtle and suitable, in my opinion of course.
jmarshall
2009-09-10, 02:49
The actual display is up to the skinner, as always.
We really aren't getting at the heart of the matter: Would the tool tips, or help dialog or whatever actually make a difference?
I'm of the firm belief that if the setting can't be described in 10 words or less (i.e. the name of the setting) then I'd have a hard time defending the inclusion of the setting in the UI full stop - i.e. perhaps there's a better solution that IS describable in simple language.
Perhaps this will be made clear if a list of tool-tip descriptions are made. Those making the descriptions will soon see which options are hardest to describe, and those options can then be flagged for future simplification.
The event server options for instance that are in the UI are essentially useless. Even I have no idea what they're supposed to do, and I've never needed to touch them!
Cheers,
Jonathan
joebrady
2009-09-10, 05:09
So Maybe we should just start posting here the settings and their corresponding breif descriptions, and then figure out how to get them in.
I started to put together a list of the settings based off the PM3 skin. It's organized in a tree.
http://paste.ubuntu.com/270425/
I didn't propose tooltips for use, but instead described what I understood just by looking at the title of the setting.
A few notes, I don't use the library, and I only use XBMC to play videos, so i'm most familiar with the Video branch of the settings and I still don't understand some of the settings.
It may be that the tooltips that are displayed aren't much more useful than a well named setting.
jmarshall
2009-09-14, 04:59
I've added some comments to those options here:
http://paste.ubuntu.com/270616/
Cheers,
Jonathan