View Full Version : After many years with XBMC, I'm regretfully getting ready to bail
wildonrio
2009-05-18, 19:46
I started off using XBMC on the XBOX back in 2005 and I have loved every minute of it. Recently, however, I've wanted to get into HD movies so I switched to the HTPC. Ever since, I have had a tremendous struggle with 1080p movies being too choppy to comfortably watch. My first CPU was an AMD 2.5 dual core, and when I would check the core usage by pushing "o" during playback, 1080p movies were pushing 90-95% usage. Assuming my CPU wasn't good enough, last week I upgraded to a 3.1 dual core. Although the choppiness has been improved, core usage is still at 80-85% and it's still choppy. And unfortunately, a 3.1 dual core is the second best CPU you can buy for AMD currently (the best being 3.2 - not much better). The smoothvideo option only makes things worse too.
I've reached a breaking point now. Other players play 1080p just fine on my HTPC while XBMC just can't do it. I love XBMC's interface, but if a 3.1 GHz AMD dual core can't handle 1080p, I seriously don't know what else I can do with XBMC until playback is improved. If other players can do it, I don't understand why XBMC can't (besides the lack of GPU support, but at 3.1 GHz, that really shouldn't matter).
I VERY regrettfully will be starting to research other media center programs, unless someone has a final suggestion they can make for me. My stats are in my sig. (If it will help, here (http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcwkxdpx_23cz9hqnf9&hl=en)'s a debug log of my HTPC trying to play a 1080p movie, and not doing very well.)
EDIT: The link to my debug log above has been updated, for those who were asking.
Here are two immediate suggestions:
Dont use a BETA OS and expect anything but BETA like results.
Upgrade to the latest SVN, your version is over 500 out of date
Edit: "XBMC: Auto updates every night" > "SVN:19952 from log" current version as of this post 20434.
SlaveUnit
2009-05-18, 20:23
But an intel chip and new MB of course. They are know for handling media better.
I don't know what to suggest but there's something amiss as I'm only running on a 2.33Ghz dual core with 2GB ram and a Radeon HD2400 and playing 1080p videos the CPU usage is 50-60%.
I have a VERY strong feeling that this is not related to the CPU at all, and is instead due to the ATI gfx card, which would indeed be compounded by the smoothvideo changes.
The debug log is not from a current SVN, but is very close to the Babylon release revision. If you would post a log from the 9.04 release, it would greatly improve our ability to help you track this down. I see no reason why we should not be able to get this resolved if you are willing to be engaged in the process.
FWIW, I play 1080p content on my 2.0GHz C2D Windows laptop with a good level of success. The MKV container will chew up a bit more CPU, but you certainly have more available.
wildonrio
2009-05-18, 20:59
Here are two immediate suggestions:
Dont use a BETA OS and expect anything but BETA like results.
Upgrade to the latest SVN, your version is over 500 out of date
Edit: "XBMC: Auto updates every night" > "SVN:19952 from log" current version as of this post 20434.
Respectfully, I find your post kind of funny, since your first suggestion is telling me to not use a BETA, while your second one is telling me that my problem is I haven't updated to the latest BETA. :) I see your point though. I did that debug log last week before I set up auto updates - it was done very near to 9.04 I believe. Since the problem has been the same the whole time, I didn't think it made too much of a difference. I'll post a brand new debug log tonight!
I don't know what to suggest but there's something amiss as I'm only running on a 2.33Ghz dual core with 2GB ram and a Radeon HD2400 and playing 1080p videos the CPU usage is 50-60%.
Intel or AMD?
If you would post a log from the 9.04 release, it would greatly improve our ability to help you track this down. I see no reason why we should not be able to get this resolved if you are willing to be engaged in the process.
Thank you! I will post a newer debug log later tonight if you want to come check back. I just posted one that I did a week ago (before I set up auto update), since the problem has really been the same ever since.
Respectfully, I find your post kind of funny, since your first suggestion is telling me to not use a BETA, while your second one is telling me that my problem is I haven't updated to the latest BETA. :) I see your point though. I did that debug log last week before I set up auto updates - it was done very near to 9.04 I believe. Since the problem has been the same the whole time, I didn't think it made too much of a difference. I'll post a brand new debug log tonight!
You make a fine point however, its fair to assume most XBMC users are not using Win7, therefore you can expect to be in a much smaller crowd of people getting OS specific problems. XBMC is so easy to update and SVNs fix things so fast rule number one is try a new version to see if things change. You probably wouldnt be surprised to hear it fixes alot of users problems :)
You should also consider trying the XBMC live CD. OK so its not a solution but it sounds like your really wanting to stay and seeing it work will give you a new lease of life.
Intel or AMD?
Intel 2 Core Duo to be precise.
LaTropa64
2009-05-18, 22:34
...
I've reached a breaking point now. Other players play 1080p just fine on my HTPC while XBMC just can't do it. I love XBMC's interface ...
Look into the externalplayer option and you can keep the xbmc interface but still playback your 1080p media on a non c2d machine.
remco9999
2009-05-18, 23:30
Just to let u know, i'm running:
Jetway ITX with 4850e AMD on a AMD 780g IGP. I get 60-80 percent cpu usage (so it runs a bit warm) but i haven't had any problems doing 1080p content.
wildonrio
2009-05-18, 23:43
Look into the externalplayer option and you can keep the xbmc interface but still playback your 1080p media on a non c2d machine.
How well does this work? I was gonna read the external player thread but it's 500 posts. For example, let's say I want to start a random movie playlist by pushing "play" over my Movies folder, does this even work with an external player, i.e. advancing through playlists at random?
Just to let u know, i'm running:
Jetway ITX with 4850e AMD on a AMD 780g IGP. I get 60-80 percent cpu usage (so it runs a bit warm) but i haven't had any problems doing 1080p content.
XP, Vista, or Seven? And when you say "no problems" do you mean absolutely no hiccups or jitters at all, even in panning scenes?
What type of display do you have the machine hooked up to? Interconnect type?
wildonrio
2009-05-19, 00:44
It's hooked up via HDMI to a 52" Samsung LN52A750.
So the only panning issues you should see would be due to processing delay. You also should not need to enable smoothvideo since your display refresh-rate is more than sufficient. I am still convinced it is an ATI problem, but we will keep digging once you get a log posted.
Where are the source media files located? Local, network, etc..? If network, how is it connected?
wildonrio
2009-05-19, 00:56
So the only panning issues you should see would be due to processing delay. You also should not need to enable smoothvideo since your display refresh-rate is more than sufficient. I am still convinced it is an ATI problem, but we will keep digging once you get a log posted.
Where are the source media files located? Local, network, etc..? If network, how is it connected?
It's local, a Seagate 1.5TB (2 of them actually :)). I'll get a log posted in the next couple hours.
Since XBMC for Windows doesn't use the GPU, how much of a difference would a new graphics card really make?
Discaciate
2009-05-19, 02:42
I'm also strugling to get a good 1080p playback on my HTPC (Cpu: AMD X2 5000).
I'm really thinking about switching to Linux, with GPU acceleration.
But I really like windows I my past experiences with Linux have all sucked.
I have 1080p content working fine on this setup with about 50 to 70 CPU % usage and no dropped frames throughout the length of a movie (it drops about 10 frames when started but I think this is a normal phenomena) :
GFX: ATI Radeon HD 4350
CPU: AMD 4400 XP 2.2ghz
RAM: 2GB
MB: ASUS A7N8X DELUXE
XBMC: Auto updates every night
OS: Windows XP SP3
Samsung Series 6 46" LCD via HDMI @ 1080p 60hz
Things of Note.
I had issues when I updated to to the SVN which included the Smoothvideo release. As suggested by a dev I turned off Synch playback to display and selected Sync to audio clock XBMC now works as before.
Ubuntu was my first OS of choice for XBMC though CPU usage was too High in my setup.
wildonrio
2009-05-19, 03:10
I am SERIOUSLY starting to think that Windows Seven/Vista has something to do with this... Every time I hear about someone having great playback with my same specs, they are always using XP. If this is true, that's too bad because Seven is amazing...
I am SERIOUSLY starting to think that Windows Seven/Vista has something to do with this... Every time I hear about someone having great playback with my same specs, they are always using XP. If this is true, that's too bad because Seven is amazing...
My main PC runs RC 7 and xbmc runs great on it though I have a Q9450 @ 3.2ghz. Also had to disable Smoothvideo on this setup as well due to synch and jittering issues. I think this could be the cause of a lot of issues.
I have no issues at all with XBMC playing 1080p, yes the CPU is high around 60-70 sometimes peak at 80-90.
I got AMD 4850e and 780G chipset running TinyXP
give TinyXP ago best damn OS for HTPC
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/06/24/tiny-xp-rev-09-windows-xp-with-cuise-control/
I have windows xp legit keys so I extract the image replace the keys with my keys in winnt.sif file
Alas, debug logging was not enabled in the latest debug log. Give it another go.
wildonrio
2009-05-19, 09:05
Oh man, I knew I forgot something. Sorry. Try the same link now.
Dont know if this helps at all.. but I am using Windows 7 rc 64bit, AMD Phenom2 940 quadcore (3.0ghz), 4gb of Ram, Gigabyte 780g board, ati hd4830 512mb card, never ever had any stutter problems with 1080p, just played one to see what % cpu is used as i didnt know, and it sits around 40% while decoding 15mbits of video.. Aparently xbmc doesnt utilise all cores, or the graphics card, so they shouldnt really factor into the equation.
Edit: I read somewhere that xbmc didnt utilise all the cores. but curiosity got the better of me and i fired up resource monitor and it is utilising all cores, but that could be windows 7s doing.
wildonrio
2009-05-19, 18:11
Yeah my theory there is that usually Windows is doing a lot of background processes (who knows what) that use up part of the two cores that XBMC is using. But when you have four cores, Windows does all its crap on two of them, which gives XBMC full use of the other two. Thanks for the info.
pwormwood
2009-05-19, 22:09
THis might be a shot in the dark and I dont know if it even works in Windows 7 but did you try the 'Change Refresh' Option?
Wildonrio,
I dunno if this will help you and your probs may be win 7 related BUT here's my experience - I've been in the same boat as you: on 1080p content there's been a little glitching and it's been driving me up the wall. specs:
Ati HD 3870 (audio and vid via HDMI)
Abit An-m2hd mobo
Athlon X2 64 6000
4gb ram
Win XP sp3
After tons of software changes (smoothvideo svn's etc) I decided to mess with hardware and made two changes:-
1) disabled cool'n'quiet in bios
2) OC'ed to 3.2
result: SILKY smooth playback. I haven't checked CPU overhead yet but as long as playback is smooth - I don't care.
I don't know which one made the difference - and again i don't care. I've got the result I wanted. You might want to be more systematic in your approach but I've always been a "nuke 'em from orbit" kinda guy.
Either way - I'm now a very happy xbmc camper.
HTH
wildonrio
2009-05-20, 00:43
Hmm, ok well I've already disabled the cool n quiet and I wouldn't mind OCing to 3.2, but I just don't know how I would cool it. What was your CPU at originally? And how are you cooling it now?
originally at 3ghz now at 3.2.
Cooling with an Arctic Cooling alpine 64 - nothing fancy but cooler and quieter than stock fan and fits in my case.
Link here (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-020-AR&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=1395) if you're in the UK.
I'm also strugling to get a good 1080p playback on my HTPC (Cpu: AMD X2 5000).
I'm really thinking about switching to Linux, with GPU acceleration.
But I really like windows I my past experiences with Linux have all sucked.
well worth it, xbmc here does 1080p at about 30% cpu.
Thats on a P4 2.8GHz machine with an nVidia 8400GS card doing vdpau.
Uses even less CPU on mplayer, but I like xbmc's interface.
Evanrich
2009-05-20, 21:55
I used to be an AMD nut myself, for the price and the fact that they were fairly good chips... but I tell you what. I can play any 1080p movie I have, even stuff upwards of 20 Mbps, and my cpu usage is only around 20-25%. Core 2 Quad Q6600, not over clocked.
^^ he's not wrong.
The intel chips are much better at handling the load for HD video. However, if funds for a switch up are not available then you will have to OC your AMD to get desired results. Worked for me.
No question that my next HTPC will be intel/nvidia.