XBMC and MeediOS merger would be prime

[TheKrimzonGhost]

Im sure your probably on the same boat as everyone else when it comes to your Apps Customization. Now here is a very simple way to get the easy file access of XBMC and yet maintain the other features of Meedio that XBMC just doesnt have. I am going to assume that you are running your PC as an HTPC and therefore HD space isnt a huge issue. First we need to download a few programs.

XBMC (for ease of access)
http://xbmc.org/download/

XBMC Skin Editor (to remove junk from xbmc)
http://xbmcskineditor.xbox-scene.com/downloads.php

Meedio/os (for media center base)
[url]http://www.meedios.com

Ok now we have all the tools necessary to start customizing a bastard child of both apps.

Step1.) Make a new folder at the root of your C:\

C:\TKGDIO-MC

Step2.) Create 3 Sub folders in your folder

C:\TKGDIO-MC\Button Icons
C:\TKGDIO-MC\X
C:\TKGDIO-MC\Mee

Step3.) Create 3 Sub folders in the XBMC folder

C:\TKGDIO-MC\X\Movies
C:\TKGDIO-MC\X\Music
C:\TKGDIO-MC\X\Pictures

Step4.) Install XBMC into C:\TKGDIO-MC\X\Movies

Step5.) Copy all of the files within C:\TKGDIO-MC\X\Movies to

C:\TKGDIO-MC\X\Music
C:\TKGDIO-MC\X\Pictures

Step6.) Open XBMC Skin Editor go to File Open Skin browse to C:\TKGDIO-MC\X\Movies\XBMC\Skin\Mediastream\Skin now on the left hand side click the + sign to expand mediastream then expand 720p scroll down until you see Home.xml double click this file.

Step7.) Select the binoculars or search button and type "system button"...This wlll bring you to a line in the xml that looks like this.
"
<item id="6">
<description>My System Button</description>
<label> $LOCALIZE[31006] </label>
<label2> $LOCALIZE[31016] </label2>
<onclick>SetFocus(506)</onclick>
<visible>!Skin.HasSetting(HideSystem)</visible>
</item>"


Step8.) Now replace
<visible>!Skin.HasSetting(HideSystem)</visible>
With
<visible>off</visible>

Repeat this for every button that you don't want until only the power and video button remain.

Step9.) Repeat this process for the other 2 folders you created under X leaving the Pictures button for the pictures folder and the Music button for the music folder.

(Now the hard part is done I could prepackage the file system so that only the apps would need to be installed using the concept of folder/file merging)

Step10.) Install meedio or meedios (again it doesn't matter which on because they are both fundamentally the same) into the Mee directory that you made.

C:\TKGDIO-MC\Mee

Step11.) Enter the Meedio configuration.exe and delete all of the modules listed for Pictures, Movies, and Music. Replace them with Program modules Using the same names this way your fan art and other options will stay congruent. point them each to their according install of xbmc.

example
Movies
C:\TKGDIO-MC\X\Movies\XBMC\xbmc.exe
then for Parameters type
-fs -p

repeat for all modules.

Setp12.) enjoy

Now this is an easy way out and I could config every aspect of it so that the end user only has to download and dump the apps into their specified areas but what I was really trying to do here was to get the devs to research the code and realize that it has very promising features.

In any case the way Ive done things waists space yes but it does prove a point that it is possible to junction both apps together.Im not recommending the devs to go about it in this manner because thats just plain stupid. Instead Im imploring them to make a more direct media viewing solution..and this is the way I have had to do it to get things to work the way I want them to...and if you think about it, its a round about way to make this app work in an easy manor and that sucks.

XBMC+Meedios= MediaCenter Ascension

[hikaricore]

By PC the OP means Windows.
Obviously unaware that Windows, Linux, and Mac OSX all run on "PC" hardware.

[jmarshall]

What promising features? You're launching XBMC three different copies of XBMC from 3 separate paths to accomplish what exactly?

[kricker]

There had been talks in the past of MeediOS and MediaPortal joining forces somewhat. It dissolved over too many different ideas of where to take things (to put it gently). I would not expect anything with XBMC and another app going any differently. For right now pick one and use it or do what you've done and cobble something together. I just wouldn't be expecting any merger talk for a long time if ever again on the MeediOS front.

[TheKrimzonGhost]

Ok this is just a dumbed down version of things to come but this is what I had to do to get a 100% functional media center app that has all the features that we want...full customization and ease of use. XBMCs Media launching and playing capabilities far out shine their competition yet their ease of customization is something else all together. I was hoping by showing my Frankensteined combination app that it would get things moving into a different direction. I think both teams hold crucial keys in creating a perfect system. You see Meedios has file importing I do not agree with this method it uses up to many resources and takes to long to startup. There for coupling the abilities of both apps is the most logical approach to media center enlightenment.

[TheKrimzonGhost]

What promising features? You're launching XBMC three different copies of XBMC from 3 separate paths to accomplish what exactly?

Im glad you asked...Each path has a custom stripped down build of xbmc. This way I can utilize XBMCs easy file access and media players. This is not the way I would expect to do this in the future but it proves a point that it is possible to execute features from xbmc inside of meedio/meedios therefore gaining the attributes of both pieces of software in one single app. I dont have to worry about HD space, 2Gigs these days is not much so this works rather well for me.

[TheKrimzonGhost]

By PC the OP means Windows.
Obviously unaware that Windows, Linux, and Mac OSX all run on "PC" hardware.

Oh well pardon me I thought that the C:\ really specified that I was referring to a Windows install. Next time I will list my stats.

[midgetspy]

But you haven't explained WHY you are launching 3 copies of XBMC. Why not just launch one? What is the point?

[rwparris2]

you also haven't said what features are to be gained by this.

[natethomas]

There's a reason I stopped using Meedios after 2 hours of fiddling. That reason: I had accomplished and understood nothing.

The whole point of XBMC is the low level of tech knowledge necessary to get started. You install it; you point to where your files are; you can be done. If you want it to be pretty, you tell it to scan your files into its library. Then, once again, you are done.

Maybe Meedios has gotten easier to use since last I tried, but I'm guessing it is still nearly impossible to figure out without a full day or two to fiddle, plus a degree in programming.

[natethomas]

Of course, with that said, I guess this is a solution if you happen to like Meedios but don't like the way it doesn't work very well.

[kricker]

Maybe Meedios has gotten easier to use since last I tried, but I'm guessing it is still nearly impossible to figure out without a full day or two to fiddle, plus a degree in programming.Indeed it has. Your opinion on it may change a bit if you saw it in action lately. Also the importing portion has improved quite a bit (at least the non-released code I got to play with a while back).

[MaxNL]

Sorry I did't get what is possible to gain using meedio as a overall interface.
I've been looking at the web page but I didn't get what are the differences with xbmc.
Bye
Max

[TheKrimzonGhost]

There's a reason I stopped using Meedios after 2 hours of fiddling. That reason: I had accomplished and understood nothing.

The whole point of XBMC is the low level of tech knowledge necessary to get started. You install it; you point to where your files are; you can be done. If you want it to be pretty, you tell it to scan your files into its library. Then, once again, you are done.

Maybe Meedios has gotten easier to use since last I tried, but I'm guessing it is still nearly impossible to figure out without a full day or two to fiddle, plus a degree in programming.

Ok you are absolutely 100% right in regards to Meedios being a bitch to set up but XBMC is missing certain customization features that are found in Meedios. So therefore I made a easier to use yet still customizable instance of meedios by haveing the abiltity to launch 3 differently configured instances of xbmc. A music instance, A movie instance, and photos instance. Letting Xbmc take over these aspects of meedios seems reasonable to me. To make meedios more user friendly this is what ive had to do. It works really well for me and Im just passing on the knowledge of what ive done. take it or leave it.

[MaxNL]

.... but XBMC is missing certain customization features that are found in Meedios. ...

Which are?

[midgetspy]

Heh yeah 14 posts over 3 days and I still have no idea what the purpose of this is.

[davilla]

patches welcome, even from the Meedios devs :)

[TheKrimzonGhost]

I guess I didnt really make it clear why I did this. Ok I love XBMCs ease of use its direct fast and easy set up. Meedios on the other hand has more advanced options for importers,plugins,games, and luanchers. So it is my belief that XBMC lacks in some areas of its frame work and so does Meedio/os but they are lacking in opposite areas therefore making sort of puzzle like pieces that fit nicely together. The way I did what I did was just to get a P.O.C. and to get the creative juices flowing. I think the devs of both projects should think about joining forces or at least borrowing sources. We need ease of use out of the box for the less skilled and advanced configuration options for the advanced user. Im working to do just this. I think another goal of this community should be to consider the handicapped when finishing these apps. For instance offering options for the blind or deaf and easier interfaces for the less fortunate.

And the reason for 3 installs is one is custom for each media mode. If I were to strip all of the data from the Home.xml except for lets say the music data. Then that would be one mode. If I were to strip all the data in a separate install now lets say for pictures now you have two separately launchable modes...This is proof that it is possible to launch singular xbmc functions within meedio/os therefore combining maximum easy use and full on customization.

I dont know what other way to communicate it, just try it and you will understand.

[althekiller]

Ya know we have a "feature request" ticket type on trac for a reason. Meedios being win32 only implies there's very little that can be taken directly. Remember XBMC aims to be platform agnostic.

1) Figure out just EXACTLY what it is you want. I still have no damn clue. You seem to be under the impression that everyone has used Meedios exclusively before XBMC. We haven't. Assume we don't even know what it is instead.
2) Make sure no one else already created a ticket for that same thing.
3) Create a new ticket with a clear description of what you want.

If your idea is easily split into smaller subfeatures, submit each separately. Keep in mind though that this is only a request. In no way does it imply that someone will work on it or even that it will be accepted if someone does.

Be aware that we are pretty critical of things posted to trac so you'd better get your descriptive skills on the ball before you start posting. Your efforts here clearly aren't cutting it.

[midgetspy]

I guess I didnt really make it clear why I did this. Ok I love XBMCs ease of use its direct fast and easy set up. Meedios on the other hand has more advanced options for importers,plugins,games, and luanchers.

...


I dont know what other way to communicate it, just try it and you will understand.

LOL are you being deliberately vague? Advanced options like *what*??? You need to be MUCH MUCH more specific if you want anybody to look at implementing new features into XBMC.

[natethomas]

Seriously. What advanced options? Give an example or two. I'm not disagreeing with you; I'm just trying to find out what I'm missing out on.

[t0ffluss]

Seriously. What advanced options? Give an example or two. I'm not disagreeing with you; I'm just trying to find out what I'm missing out on.

One option I guess he`s thinking about is the library views option in Meedio.

XBMC is lacking the possibility to configure the way you want to sort your media, currently its only possible to sort by name, descending, ascending.. the library views function in Meedio allowed the user to configure individual views for, lets say, movies..

Instead of having just a set of options like XBMC (recently added, by actor, by year, by title etc) In Meedio these filters are 100% customizable.

http://www.meedios.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ultimate_Music_Libary_Views

[Roborob]

I used Meedios before, and the only thing i'm missing in XBMC is the option to edit the homescreen shortcuts in an easy way, and for every shortcut a different directory. For example a Shortcut for Concerts and link it to a directory. I know you can edit some xml files but that's not easy, and profiles for every shortcut i don't like. But I use XBMC because it's almost perfect form me :grin:

[TheKrimzonGhost]

Im sorry I wasnt clear I just figured that most people would do what I do and that is check out all of the media center options out there. After toying with a few of them I've come to realize that XBMC has nailed most of the features in its app. ..But it lacks in the ability to customize launchers to carry out specific tasks yet Meedio/os lacks in all of the other areas like to be blunt the ability to launch media right out of the box. So what needs to happen is you need a solid base for customization and a solid base for media accessibility. So we have these two solid bases and if we mix them together they form this sort of well oiled machine that both the end user and advanced user could benefit from. Its like mixing the features of a smooth running Cadillac (XBMC)and a not so perfect but ballzy pickup truck (Meedio/os)the outcome is something like an Escalade.

[natethomas]

Im sorry I wasnt clear I just figured that most people would do what I do and that is check out all of the media center options out there. After toying with a few of them I've come to realize that XBMC has nailed most of the features in its app. ..But it lacks in the ability to customize launchers to carry out specific tasks yet Meedio/os lacks in all of the other areas like to be blunt the ability to launch media right out of the box. So what needs to happen is you need a solid base for customization and a solid base for media accessibility. So we have these two solid bases and if we mix them together they form this sort of well oiled machine that both the end user and advanced user could benefit from. Its like mixing the features of a smooth running Cadillac (XBMC)and a not so perfect but ballzy pickup truck (Meedio/os)the outcome is something like an Escalade.

Pal, as one lover of media to another, I want to tell you that you are not making your point by insisting on being general and over-using simile and metaphor.

I STILL don't know what you mean by "the ability to customize launchers to carry out specific tasks." Unless you are referring to what Tofluss is talking about with the ability to customize your library sort functions.

Honestly, I think this is a decent idea. In particular, whenever XBMC officially starts to recognize the difference between HD and SD media and different streams, it seems like an ability to sort SD from HD would be nice. If XBMC came pre-bundled with some additional sort features in this regard, there would probably be a benefit.

However, I DON'T like the ability to allow users to custom define their own categories. For one thing, it sounds like a hassle that will only benefit a minority of people. For another, it is guaranteed to confuse the heck out of n00bs. Finally, it sounds like something that would be difficult to accomplish from 10 feet away using a remote control, and that ease of use is the whole point of XBMC. Bonus point: I would also be concerned that such a feature would limit the creativity of our brilliant skinning team.

Im sorry I wasnt clear I just figured that most people would do what I do and that is check out all of the media center options out there.

Nice subtle jab! :grin: As mentioned previously, I did do what you did. I tried out MeediOS, and after I couldn't get it to work over the course of several hours, I decided I was done with it. Any movement by XBMC toward a less user friendly experience is one I cannot support. The degree of customizability described here sounds exactly like that.

[jmarshall]

t0ffloss: Look into the video smartplaylists. If they can be improved, let us know how.

The eventual goal is for the entire library to be configurable at the same level as smartplaylists are (basically allow you to dump various nodes (assuming they make sense) into various places in the browsing tree).

[t0ffluss]

t0ffloss: Look into the video smartplaylists. If they can be improved, let us know how.

The eventual goal is for the entire library to be configurable at the same level as smartplaylists are (basically allow you to dump various nodes (assuming they make sense) into various places in the browsing tree).

hmm. interesting! I will have a look at it :)

[TheKrimzonGhost]

Hmmm after reading some of your posts I have come to realize that there are a lot of back doors In XBMC that I didn't think of before in fact it seems to me that I may be able to accomplish all of my goals within XBMC...But that is not going to stop me from researching ways to integrate both apps into a highly customizable yet easy to use app...In fact the new things Im finding within XBMC are very promising to me...Just give me a few hours and Ill tell you what I've come up with.

[natethomas]

I am agog.

[TheKrimzonGhost]

Ok I tried Editing some .xml only to find that I couldn't create the types of launchers that I wanted to. Its these launchers that give Meedio/os a sort of upper hand. What I was trying to accomplish was the launching of .html files and programs within XBMC. I didn't get to spend a lot of time looking at it but Ill keep at it. If anyone can think of any posible exploits Id like to see your ideas.

[rwparris2]

What I was trying to accomplish was the launching of .html files and programs within XBMC. I didn't get to spend a lot of time looking at it but Ill keep at it. If anyone can think of any posible exploits Id like to see your ideas.


Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think I speak for everyone when I say "No one knows what the hell you're talking about."

[althekiller]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think I speak for everyone when I say "No one knows what the hell you're talking about."

Took the words straight from my mouth.

Launchers? We don't know this Meedios lingo (or yours?) that you keep using. Assume we're all complete idiots, have no idea what you're talking about, are extremely computer illiterate and have a severe learning disability. Assume NOTHING more. Now, try to explain what you're trying to do, from the begining.

[natethomas]

One additional note. An "exploit" is the discovery of some code or other that allows you to circumvent the intended purpose of a piece of software or the software designers. Because XBMC is completely open source and changes are readily accepted if they aren't horrible, I don't think a code alteration in this case can be called an exploit.

As to your main point... huh? Are you trying to figure out a way to make XBMC display webpages?

[kricker]

I have used Meedio extensively and I have an idea what he is talking about. When I get a chance later today, I'll chime in and give hopefully a good detailed run down.

[kricker]

Meedio's menu system is customizable. The user add menu items as need to perform whatever task they need. Menus can be made as deep or as shallow as needed and may have as many submenus as needed as well as submenus of submenus. There is no limit.

->VIDEO
->movies
->TV
->recordings
->archived
->tv guide
->manage favorites
->dvd
->trailers
->podcasts
->AUDIO
->streaming radio
->cd
->Jukebox
->Library
->GAMES
->WEB
->browse the web
->email
->news
->torrents
->WEATHER
->SETTINGS
->file browser
->free space
->appearance
->icons
->tools
->importers
->update
->tv settings
->POWER
->restart meedio
->reboot
->shutdown
->standby
->hibernate

This is just an example of a Meedio menu system, with submenus and sub-submenus. Each one of those items either launches a Meedio built in module or an external program. The user decides as they build the menu system based on their needs. For example; in the WEB submenu "browse the web" can launch Firefox in kiosk mode, "email" can launch Thunderbird or Firefox in kiosk mode opened directly to Gmail, "news" opens the built in module to browse rss feeds from chosen websites, "torrents" launches utorrent (or maximizes it from the tray). Here is another example. Video menu; "movies" opens meemovies to browse movie library, "TV" opens a submenu for; "recordings" to open Meedios built in PVR recorded TV module, or in my case switches to SageTV's recordings screen, "archived" switches to the Meedio module meeTVshows to browse a TV library, etc. I think you may get the picture by now.

I think this is the kind of customization and usability TheKrimzonGhost was trying to explain.

Libraries are another thing Meedio users are trying to come to grips with. In Meedio you can have as many libraries as you want containing any sort of "tags" and data you care to have. Depending on the module you use, you can then sort by any of these tags to organize the library as you see fit. The libraries can have "view" steps, which means you can view and sort a library in multiple ways. These view steps can be show as menu items within Meedio or just used by the modules to sort the library. I may have a view step that is labeled "genre", then have each genre as a substep of that view, which then contain the movies that have that specific genre tag or tags. As well as the genre view step, I can have one listed as "actor", which can be sorted by actor names, then by movie name. This would let me browse a list of actors, choose one, and then see the list of movies they appear in. Once again, I don't think there is a limit to the amount of view steps a library can have.

Another great thing about the Meedio library system is, you can have multiple movie libraries if you like. One for adults, one for kids, one for guests, etc. Then in the Meedio menu system you can have a menu item open the module which then just browses that specific library. You could also do this with one library and view steps, by creating a view step for a custom tag and sorting the movies that way. You can also passcode menu items that point to libraries you don't want prying eyes in.

This is still a very basic and general explanation of how Meedio works. There are many plugins for Meedio that act just like plugins do for XBMC. These plugins add functions from importing media into libraries (some easy to use, some more complex), adding new modules for viewing media both local and online, scraping online content for details just like XBMC scrapers, external video and audio players, and much more. I've just scratched the surface here and since it's late Imay not have written this in the most coherent way. Feel free to ask more questions. For all its problems, there is a lot to love about Meedio as well. MeediOS plans to solve a lot of the GUI issues Meedio had and there are importers being developed for the libraries to ease the importing process and make it as simple as importing media into XBMC. Different strokes for different folks. I have been a heavy user of both XBMC and Meedio as well as GBPVR, SageTV, Media Portal and others. I can see the ups and downs of each and every one of them.

[t0ffluss]

Kricker.. your description almost wanted me to switch back :) ah, the good old days.. Im hoping MeediOS can live up to its hype. Seems to move in the right direction anyways :)

A bit more MeediOS possibilities in XBMC and you would be one killer app.

-Richard

[natethomas]

Alright! Now I follow a bit better!

Nevertheless, I think I'm sticking to my original point. One of the nice things about XBMC is the LACK of a million options. That may sound crazy, but it ought to make sense from a certain perspective. When I'm showing people XBMC, I want them to be impressed with the ease of use. I want them to like the pretty graphics. And I want them to think this is nothing more than a living room entertainment center.

I don't want to see a keyboard anywhere near my computer. I don't want to see a mouse either. All I want is a TV, a remote control, and a bunch of media. And I want all those things to be as tightly integrated as the best of us can devise.

I don't want to read the news on my tv. I don't want check my email or grab torrents in any way that requires me to pick up a mouse.

All I want is for XBMC to be a pretty way to view pictures, listen to music, and play movies and tv episodes. The further we go from that ideal, the further XBMC goes from being a media center to being just a prettier OS.

I acknowledge Launcher, but only as a means for Windows folk to use an external video player and, potentially, as a means one day of seamlessly switching from XBMC to various controller based games (a la the XBMC Xbox edition).

Feel free to take this rant for a grain of salt. I'm also the guy who STILL doesn't see the point of installing XBMC onto a laptop, unless that laptop is connected to a big TV in the same room.

[kricker]

Alright! Now I follow a bit better!

Nevertheless, I think I'm sticking to my original point. One of the nice things about XBMC is the LACK of a million options. That may sound crazy, but it ought to make sense from a certain perspective. When I'm showing people XBMC, I want them to be impressed with the ease of use. I want them to like the pretty graphics. And I want them to think this is nothing more than a living room entertainment center.

I don't want to see a keyboard anywhere near my computer. I don't want to see a mouse either. All I want is a TV, a remote control, and a bunch of media. And I want all those things to be as tightly integrated as the best of us can devise.

I don't want to read the news on my tv. I don't want check my email or grab torrents in any way that requires me to pick up a mouse.

All I want is for XBMC to be a pretty way to view pictures, listen to music, and play movies and tv episodes. The further we go from that ideal, the further XBMC goes from being a media center to being just a prettier OS.

I acknowledge Launcher, but only as a means for Windows folk to use an external video player and, potentially, as a means one day of seamlessly switching from XBMC to various controller based games (a la the XBMC Xbox edition).

Feel free to take this rant for a grain of salt. I'm also the guy who STILL doesn't see the point of installing XBMC onto a laptop, unless that laptop is connected to a big TV in the same room.I'll say it a again, different strokes for different folks. Once Meedio is setup there is no need for a mouse or keyboard, if you don't want to. I could check my torrents, email, and other things all with my remote. And just because there are options for how you set it up, doesn't mean you have to use them all. I too love XBMC for all the reasons you stated, but there are things I miss about Meedio. Mainly the ease of switching to other windows apps without hassle, whether it be a game or SageTV or something else.

Yes, I love to show of XBMC and it's ease of use and eye candy GUI. But for some reason, what really wows all my guests is when I launch Firefox on my HDTV to browse the web. When I do that, all my friends and family just say, "WTF?" on your TV, now that's cool.

[althekiller]

What's wrong with our favorites menu then? Sure your don't get to "organize" it. But, how much crap do you honestly need in there? There's also a "Programs" main menu item in some(most?) skins, it's just hidden by default (see skin settings). All this request sounds like to me is giving way more control than is really necessary for the average person. If you want to geek out, write a skin to do what you want.

[kricker]

Nothing is wrong with the favorites menu, it just really isn't the same thing. As for the Programs function in XBMC, let's be honest, on anything other than the XBOX it's pretty much useless. Given time I'm sure it will get better, after all it's in the road map. It just isn't there yet. The developers have more pressing things on their plates and that's fine.

The only valid request I see out of this entire thread is getting better functionality of launching other apps from within XBMC, and there are already tickets submitted for that. I have already hacked the media stream skin to allow me to jump back and forth between SageTV, launch firefox, utorrent and more.

I guess having customizable menus would be another request one could garner from this thread. But as althekiller said, it can be done by editing the skin files. Not quite as easy (if setting up Meedio could be called easy) but it is effective.

Please realize, I don't think anyone here is attacking XBMC, it needs no defense. Just like any other application, sometimes people just need help on achieving a goal they have in mind for the application if possible.

[natethomas]

Along those lines, I did not intend to sound defensive, if I did. I was really just taking a moment to talking about the things I liked about XBMC as compared to other similar programs.

[TheKrimzonGhost]

Thank you kricker those posts were very informative...sorry I havent been on lately Im just incredibly busy these days. I think Kricker did a much better job of pointing out the finer parts of my position. I believe that Meedios needs to come usable like XBMC yet have the ability to be later customizable in the Meedios fashion this is why I suggested merging the 2 Programs. By using the pieces of XBMC that work and using the Pieces of Meedios that work. All my original post was for is a proof of concept that both apps can work side by side...and yes when its all said and done I can sit back type to you from my couch or use my remote to manipulate all of my media.