View Full Version : [MAC] New (March 2009+) Mac Mini with NVIDIA 9400 graphics - Good enough for 1080p?
Now that apple has finally updated the Mac Mini to have a better video chip and wireless N, would this machine be capable of 1080 h.264? Its speced pretty much the same as the new macbooks. Has anyone tried 1080p on those yet? I'm looking to replace my old XB with something for HD, and don't want the Apple TV if it can't handle everything.
Thanks,
Jason.
EMHMark3
2009-03-03, 16:30
Hm the *old* mac minis could handle 1080p h264, so I don't see why the *new* ones wouldn't. Dualcore decoding in XBMC FTW!
New ones are 2Ghz... old ones are 1.8 from memory... rule of thumb is 3Ghz for 1080p in XBMC...
afaik only Linux has GPU hardware decoding alowing slower CPUs to handle 1080 especailly 264.
cusquinho
2009-03-03, 18:37
Now that apple has finally updated the Mac Mini to have a better video chip and wireless N, would this machine be capable of 1080 h.264? Its speced pretty much the same as the new macbooks. Has anyone tried 1080p on those yet? I'm looking to replace my old XB with something for HD, and don't want the Apple TV if it can't handle everything.
Thanks,
Jason.
I think that's an awesome question. Mac Mini does not play most 1080p content, especially if we are talking about Matroska and high bitrates. The HUGE difference between the new mac mini and the old ones is the 9400M (ion) platform video card. I *know* ffmpeg still doesn't take any advantage of the GPU right now, and I also know there are on going works in that area. But isen't that the future???
Fffmpeg with GPU acceleration from the 9400M would make XBMC the best HTPC ever :-)
stevellion
2009-03-03, 18:52
Yep, can't wait to hear if this is the answer to my prayers.
High bitrate 1080p in a neat little box, running XBMC.. Looking forward to a confirmation.
stuartmarsden
2009-03-03, 19:39
It will support 1080p via GPU if you just remove that horrible proprietary OS and put Linux on there:grin:
cusquinho
2009-03-03, 19:44
It will support 1080p via GPU if you just remove that horrible proprietary OS and put Linux on there:grin:
not really since the issue is ffmpeg code for intel (both linux/macos) :P
What he is saying is that if you put Linux on there, you can use VDPAU.
The Linux version of XBMC has a new branch for VDPAU integration and is working quite well. So, stuartmarsden is correct in saying that if you put linux on, you will be able to play 1080p.
cusquinho
2009-03-03, 19:49
What he is saying is that if you put Linux on there, you can use VDPAU.
The Linux version of XBMC has a new branch for VDPAU integration and is working quite well. So, stuartmarsden is correct in saying that if you put linux on, you will be able to play 1080p.
Wow, very nice to know :-)
So you're saying that if we get the new mac mini, put debian and xbmc + vdpau we're good to go?
stuartmarsden
2009-03-03, 20:14
Sorry I was being a bit flippant in my response. My setup has a slower processor than the new Mac Mini (1.8 compared to 2GHz) and my graphics card is only slightly better (9500GT compared 9400M). I can play crazy encoded 1080p content like the killasample without my CPU going above 10% usage.
This is using the VDPAU branch http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=45525 on linux.
A lot of people there have even more modest hardware and can get smooth video. The new ION platform which also has NVIDIA 9400M and an atom CPU could be the perfect low cost HD platform for XBMC.
cusquinho
2009-03-03, 21:13
I've tried to search with no success. Wondering, is there any work going on in doing something like this inside Mac OS?
pantherman007
2009-03-03, 21:23
I know the audio connection can be configured for S/PDIF output, but is there any way to get HD audio out of the new Mini? I'm concerned that it would be limited to traditional AC3 and DTS over S/PDIF since there's no true HDMI port. You can get DVI and DP to HDMI adapters, but I think they're video only.
Am I missing something?
occamsrazor
2009-03-03, 21:32
The lack of GPU-acceleration in Windows and OS X XBMC is quite annoying, requiring much greater CPU requirements... I'm hoping the new Mac Mini will be capable of playing all 1080P H.264 files with just the CPU... but would be really great to get some kind of hardware acceleration.
BliBlaBlo
2009-03-03, 23:29
Yes... would be great if there was hardware acceleration soon... Does anybody know how far it is away?
I would love to buy a new mac mini as HTPC... but hardware acceleration would make it so much cooler :)
Yes... would be great if there was hardware acceleration soon... Does anybody know how far it is away?
I would love to buy a new mac mini as HTPC... but hardware acceleration would make it so much cooler :)
Not unless there is an Apple API that exposes it and as an Apple developer, I would know if there is one coming. So forget about OSX hardware acceleration for now.
If you want hw assisted decoding, get the new MacMini and run Linux/VDPAU on it.
Nuka1195
2009-03-03, 23:50
davilla, do you recommend this?
i see reports of python problems on linux, but what i run, runs well in osx.
and by new, do new mac mini's have intel gfx?
davilla, do you recommend this?
i see reports of python problems on linux, but what i run, runs well in osx.
and by new, do new mac mini's have intel gfx?
Nope, nvidia all the way!
davilla, do you recommend this?
i see reports of python problems on linux, but what i run, runs well in osx.
and by new, do new mac mini's have intel gfx?
Hehe, It should work fine but this is untested until someone actually gets one of the new MacMinis and installs Ubuntu/VDAPU on it.
Hehe, It should work fine but this is untested until someone actually gets one of the new MacMinis and installs Ubuntu/VDAPU on it.
What do you think of doing this via VMWare or Parallels? Could you still get to the appropriate hardware?
cusquinho
2009-03-04, 03:01
What do you think of doing this via VMWare or Parallels? Could you still get to the appropriate hardware?
my guess is that it wont work, since you would need direct access to the gpu to get the VDPAU going... not a fake video display driver..
Hm the *old* mac minis could handle 1080p h264
lol
My 1.83 GHZ Mini has played every 1080p file I've tried just fine
...and my graphics card is only slightly better (9500GT compared 9400M).
The 9500GT (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9500gt_us.html) is roughly twice as powerful as the 9400M (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9400m_g_us.html) even though it sounds like it would be similarly spec-ed.
BliBlaBlo
2009-03-04, 14:06
Not unless there is an Apple API that exposes it and as an Apple developer, I would know if there is one coming. So forget about OSX hardware acceleration for now.
If you want hw assisted decoding, get the new MacMini and run Linux/VDPAU on it.
And do you think OpenCL will bring possibilities for GPU acceleration?
What do you think of doing this via VMWare or Parallels? Could you still get to the appropriate hardware?
What about using Bootcamp?
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mac_mini
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Installing_MythTV_on_an_Intel_Mac_Mini_using_Ubunt u
http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Apple_Computer (german)
Should work fine and you should have access to VDAPU.
But I've some questions:
Can anyone confirm that the new MacMini hardware works with Ubuntu? Is it fast enough for 1080p (mkv, high bitrates...)?
Is 2 GHz fast enough (or is the 10% CPU upgrade option worth 140 EUR)?
Is 1 GB RAM enough for Ubuntu/XBMC?
Is 128MB grafics memory (shared) enough (small version)?
Is it possible (and not too complicated) to replace the disk (2.5", 5400rpm) with SSD?
DVI->HDMI should work just fine?
Optical out for audio should work for multi-channel audio, right? What about HD-sound formats?
Does Apple remote work with Ubuntu/XBMC?
Is it possible (and not too complicated) to use another remote (like PS3 remote)?
I'd be very happy if someone with a new MacMini could post his experience here...
What about using Bootcamp?
Can anyone confirm that the new MacMini hardware works with Ubuntu?
Is 1 GB RAM enough for Ubuntu/XBMC?
Is it possible (and not too complicated) to replace the disk (2.5", 5400rpm) with SSD?
DVI->HDMI should work just fine?
Optical out for audio should work for multi-channel audio, right? What about HD-sound formats?
Is it possible (and not too complicated) to use another remote (like PS3 remote)?
I don't see why it wouldn't
Yes but I would recommend at lest 2Gb
Yes its possible and not too complicated... the mini is a bit tricky to open
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2
Yes
The PS3 remote is bluetooth so its pretty easy to set up
My 1.83 GHZ Mini has played every 1080p file I've tried just fine
Not with XBMC it hasnt... uless they're extreemly low bit rate files, or your running Linux with hardware acceleration.....
jbennett
2009-03-04, 23:25
Anyone know if it is possible to do audio over the dvi (with an hdmi convertor) on the new mac mini? It's possible on other nvidia 9xxx series boards with an internal spdif connection.
ultrabrutal
2009-03-04, 23:28
Well that rules out HD audio formats so it's not interesting to me. Will wait for other ION boxes - for example Acer Hornet
2-7offsuit
2009-03-04, 23:58
Well I picked up one of the new Mac Minis last night. I won't be using it as an HTPC, but maybe I'll try and see if I can test some things out. I'm happy to help if someone can point me in the right direction.
Yes but I would recommend at lest 2Gb
Why? Can xbmc take advantage of so much RAM? The only advantage I can see is, that if you upgrade to 2 GB, you will increase VRAM from 128MB to 256MB for free, which should be useful...
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=661197
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2
Why DisplayPort and not DVI? AFAIK DVI signal is compatible to HDMI, and DisplayPort has to be converted?! And a MiniDVI -> DVI Adapter is shipped with every MacMini.
What's the right adapter for sound? How is the optical out jack called?
Does anyone know a site with information about the chipsets (lan,wlan,sound...) used in the new MacMini?
Well that rules out HD audio formats so it's not interesting to me. Will wait for other ION boxes - for example Acer Hornet
Why? You have optical audio out.
Why? Can xbmc take advantage of so much RAM? The only advantage I can see is, that if you upgrade to 2 GB, you will increase VRAM from 128MB to 256MB for free, which should be useful...
Why DisplayPort and not DVI? AFAIK DVI signal is compatible to HDMI, and DisplayPort has to be converted?! And a MiniDVI -> DVI Adapter is shipped with every MacMini.
What's the right adapter for sound? How is the optical out jack called?
Not necicaraly for XBMC alone but for the system overall (OSX likes ram). Yes 256mb VRAM will also help.
A dvi->hdmi will work just fine. DisplayPort doesn't have to be converted... just easer in my mind to use 1 adapter rather then 2.
Macs use Toslink Mini for optical.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042301&p_id=2671&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902&p_id=1556&seq=1&format=2
Why? You have optical audio out.
Dolby Digital+, Dolby Digital TrueHD, DTS HD, DTS HD MA and multichannel PCM cannot be transferred over optical or S/P-DIF. They need a HDMI connection.
Not with XBMC it hasnt... uless they're extreemly low bit rate files, or your running Linux with hardware acceleration.....
With Plex, which should not perform any different than XBMC on that front. These are 1080p scene rips.
well, has anyone gotten their hands on one of these and tested it with 1080p files? I'm interested in getting one specifically for this purpose ;)
terminalx
2009-03-06, 11:53
It will support 1080p via GPU if you just remove that horrible proprietary OS and put Linux on there:grin:
It seems installing installing linux on the new mac mini will still need a bit of time
http://blog.costan.us/2009/03/ubuntu-810-or-904-on-mac-mini.html
FYI, VDPAU in Linux "requires" at least 512mb of video memory, The new mac minis have only 128 and 256.
FYI, VDPAU in Linux "requires" at least 512mb of video memory, The new mac minis have only 128 and 256.
But that appears to be a function of how much RAM you have, and mediated by MacOS. If we're running Linux, couldn't we tweak how much RAM is shared with video?
If the solution for 1080/h264 support is to run Linux and VDPAU, can it be done on the Apple TV hardware?
Sigh. I need to learn to read.
If the solution for 1080/h264 support is to run Linux and VDPAU, can it be done on the Apple TV hardware?
no.
With Plex, which should not perform any different than XBMC on that front. These are 1080p scene rips.
They are exactly that.... rips... usually 4.5 - 8Gb in size..... the xbox will have a dam good bash at playing some of them even... high bit rate 1080p without hardware GPU assistance in XBMC is 3.0Ghz :eek:
If someone decides to have a go, then i'll try to help out. 128MB is never going to cut it, but 256 could be tweaked quite easily (although it wont support all level 4.1 'uber' h264 profiles - killa would be tricky for example).
motd
They are exactly that.... rips... usually 4.5 - 8Gb in size..... the xbox will have a dam good bash at playing some of them even... high bit rate 1080p without hardware GPU assistance in XBMC is 3.0Ghz :eek:
Yes, they are rips. 1080p x264 in an MKV container, which is what people typically mean when they say "will this play 1080p?". The bitrate on them varies depending on the movie and who encoded it, but all of the ones I've tried have played fine. Some dropped frames here and there, but not enough to notice or make it unwatchable. The Xbox will not even come close to playing them, hell my Xbox would freeze up just trying to play 720p x264 rips. My old Mac Mini plays them (1080) just fine.
yeah what i'm trying to find out is will this baby be able to handle them ;) but if your old Mac Mini plays 1080p like you described, I hope the new one can handle a 1080 in mkv container with ~10mb bitrate ;)
jayhawk785
2009-03-10, 21:24
chuuey, my old mini will play 1080p fine--not sure on the bitrate, i can check ffmpeg to see. But if all you are looking to play is scene rips in mkv @1080 you'll be fine with the new guys.
I just ordered mine. I'd suggested upgrading the proc, since I'm pretty sure they are soldered/glued in. I ordered 4g ram from newegg. Should be here on the 12th. I'll do some testing then (if my wife lets me play with it before my birthday lol).
The CPU soldered down, no more user CPU upgrades possible with the new MacMini. Cheapest way is select the $599 version then you can change the order to the higher speed CPU.
Does anyone know if we can bump past 4Gb RAM? Or if its possible to bump the shared video RAM past 256Mb? (In other words, is the 256Mb proportionate to the amount of system RAM, or is it a fixed amount?)
OtherWorldComputing reports that you can install more that 4GB of ram and it is seen by OSX but the system slows to a crawl once it starts using more than 4GB of ram. It's the same problem with the new MacBooks with more than 6GB of ram.
chuuey, my old mini will play 1080p fine--not sure on the bitrate, i can check ffmpeg to see. But if all you are looking to play is scene rips in mkv @1080 you'll be fine with the new guys.
I just ordered mine. I'd suggested upgrading the proc, since I'm pretty sure they are soldered/glued in. I ordered 4g ram from newegg. Should be here on the 12th. I'll do some testing then (if my wife lets me play with it before my birthday lol).
that's awesome :) please report how it will run? By the way this will be hooked up to a Panasonic Plasma via HDMI, i just hope it will be compatible and stuff :)
jayhawk785
2009-03-11, 02:38
OtherWorldComputing reports that you can install more that 4GB of ram and it is seen by OSX but the system slows to a crawl once it starts using more than 4GB of ram. It's the same problem with the new MacBooks with more than 6GB of ram.
Davilla, that's weird... I'm guessing it could be corrected with firmware updates. I wouldn't think this has much to do with os--snow leopard at 64bit not gonna help eh?
Yes, it's strange. Has to be something in the EFI firmware, possible dealing with mem mapping/setup. Can't remember if darwin does the setup of MTRR/PAT or if EFI does it.
Why the limit is strange too, physically both the new MacBook/MacMini can take two 4GB sticks but why only 6GB on MacBook and 4GB on MacMini when the MacBook Pro can take 8GB. Sounds artificial rather than some real constraint.
jayhawk785
2009-03-11, 03:21
It's probably their way of controlling platforms and scaling it's users toward different hardware. Since their isn't any real reason the OS nor the hardware shouldn't be able to take it, likely that apple put it in place to get you to buy their higher end desktops.
i dont need more than 4g in my laptop or htpc though, so its ok :)
So does anyone know EFI well enough to go off and check where this (somewhat artificial) constraint might be? When running Linux on one of these boxen would it be possible to allocate more video RAM (as mentioned in the VDPAU thread)?
I'm pretty sure that all you need to do is boot Linux on a greater than 4GB ram MacMini and see what happens when Linux passes the 4GB ram point. Since the Linux kernel does it's own MTRR/PAT, it's an easy test.
jayhawk785
2009-03-11, 21:33
haha, i dont have a spare ddr3 6-8gb to plugin :)
I'm pretty sure that all you need to do is boot Linux on a greater than 4GB ram MacMini and see what happens when Linux passes the 4GB ram point. Since the Linux kernel does it's own MTRR/PAT, it's an easy test.
Please pardon my ignorance, but would this automagically take care of the 512Mb VRAM that someone mentioned VDPAU might need?
Please pardon my ignorance, but would this automagically take care of the 512Mb VRAM that someone mentioned VDPAU might need?
Talking system ram here, not gpu vram. True vram is shared but still a that's a different topic. The current setup under OSX is 1GB ram -> 128MB vram, 2GB ram -> 256MB vram. 4GB ram should yield 512MB, remember this is under OSX.
Under Linux, the rules are different and until someone actually tries Linux on the MacMini, we have not info. My quess based on how the AppleTV works is, the nvidia driver will go up to the 512MB of vram needed.
Well i had a chance to test a 1080p movie with around 8k bitrate on a macbook similar to mini, 2ghz cpu, was fine:) by the way will a mini display 1080p resolution on my 1080p display via mini-dvi to hdmi cable of some sort? I just have no way of testing it;(
PantsOnFire
2009-03-13, 11:55
No consistent 'yes' to original question.
received my new mac mini yesterday (cpu: 2.26Ghz, ram: 2Gb) and it runs 1080p video flawlessly. cpu sits about about 50% playing the video :)
received my new mac mini yesterday (cpu: 2.26Ghz, ram: 2Gb) and it runs 1080p video flawlessly. cpu sits about about 50% playing the video :)
I really wish I hadn't seen you say this -- I just got my IRS refund electronically deposited into checking :grin:.
jayhawk785
2009-03-13, 21:23
1080p is fine, if you have a clip you want me to test, linky.
great news ;) i guess the 2.0 ghz will be able to handle them as well ;) i just hope that the 9400M will display 1080p resolution through Mini-DVI - HDMI cable :) going to hook this up to my Panasonic G10 series plasma ;)
ringgh0st
2009-03-13, 22:29
received my new mac mini yesterday (cpu: 2.26Ghz, ram: 2Gb) and it runs 1080p video flawlessly. cpu sits about about 50% playing the video :)
bello do you use XBMC under MacOS? Or XBMC under Linux? Or something else?
jayhawk785
2009-03-13, 22:39
great news ;) i guess the 2.0 ghz will be able to handle them as well ;) i just hope that the 9400M will display 1080p resolution through Mini-DVI - HDMI cable :) going to hook this up to my Panasonic G10 series plasma ;)
works fine for me on my 60" kuro ;)
griffore
2009-03-13, 23:10
my new mini (2.26, 1GB RAM) plays all of my 1080p rips (~10Mb bitrate video, AC3) without dropping any frames. if you don't have one yet, get one - you won't regret it.
BTW, i'm running XBMC under Mac OSX
The new Mac Mini is starting to sound promising in spite of the 9400M vid and 2.26 limitation on the CPU.
I admit I am very curious about Linux XMBC exploiting the GPU and if using OSX/XMBC combo - anyone have a measure of a poorly encoded clip such as that killabird file?
Seems that the only real measure is taking the worst possible clips and seeing how they play. The above mentioned file, on an iMAC 2ghrz with HD2400 vid and internal 7200rpm drive, has issues. Would be nice to see the new Mac Mini fair better.
- Phrehdd
elconcho
2009-03-15, 19:44
Not with XBMC it hasnt... uless they're extreemly low bit rate files, or your running Linux with hardware acceleration.....
You're wrong Geeba. I've got a 2Ghz mini (the older one) and it plays all MKV 1080P content that I throw at it with only one exception: the bird scene in episode one of Planet Earth 1080P. I believe this is the scene that was turned into the killa sample.
This isn't low bandwidth stuff. I've played ripped Blu Ray h264 stuff (40GB movie), and 4-15GB MKVs downloaded from usenet. It all plays smooth as glass.
I use Plex 99% of the time, but the performance seems the same in both Plex and XBMC.
You're wrong Geeba. I've got a 2Ghz mini (the older one) and it plays all MKV 1080P content that I throw at it with only one exception: the bird scene in episode one of Planet Earth 1080P. I believe this is the scene that was turned into the killa sample.
This isn't low bandwidth stuff. I've played ripped Blu Ray h264 stuff (40GB movie), and 4-15GB MKVs downloaded from usenet. It all plays smooth as glass.
I use Plex 99% of the time, but the performance seems the same in both Plex and XBMC.
hehe, i know exactly which scene you are reffering to! Anyway I will have my Mini here in about a few weeks so i will report back ;) thanks for all the information :)
You're wrong Geeba. I've got a 2Ghz mini (the older one) and it plays all MKV 1080P content that I throw at it with only one exception: the bird scene in episode one of Planet Earth 1080P. I believe this is the scene that was turned into the killa sample.
This isn't low bandwidth stuff. I've played ripped Blu Ray h264 stuff (40GB movie), and 4-15GB MKVs downloaded from usenet. It all plays smooth as glass.
I use Plex 99% of the time, but the performance seems the same in both Plex and XBMC.
Well a majority of people cant get FULL 1080P running on a 2Ghz machine! without GPU assitance! Me included... and everything I have read on this forum says the same..... to me it sounds like your playing rips! My old P4 will have a bash at them!
jayhawk785
2009-03-17, 15:45
Well a majority of people cant get FULL 1080P running on a 2Ghz machine! without GPU assitance! Me included... and everything I have read on this forum says the same..... to me it sounds like your playing rips! My old P4 will have a bash at them!
rip or not, it's still 1080p --I think you are referring to the type of encoding? blu-ray media vs mkv conatiners with h264/dts/dd?
I don't know of many people trying to play full blu-ray rips on their mini's. Space/size would be a serious issue at 30-50g each :) 10-12g is about what you'll see for 1080p scene ripped mkv's.
elconcho
2009-03-17, 17:14
rip or not, it's still 1080p --I think you are referring to the type of encoding? blu-ray media vs mkv conatiners with h264/dts/dd?
I don't know of many people trying to play full blu-ray rips on their mini's. Space/size would be a serious issue at 30-50g each :) 10-12g is about what you'll see for 1080p scene ripped mkv's.
I don't get the "rips" comment either. I'm talking about downloaded content from usenet/bitorrent. They are MKVs containing x264 content in either 1080p or 720p, and come in a variety of bitrates. Playback of raw bluray is actually less taxing on the CPU than the more compressed stuff. I have tried 500+ 720p/1080p movies, and the only one that has trouble is listed above. I only have one Bluray movie that's a direct rip--it plays fine too.
So again, I don't know if geeba is using the mac version of XBMC or PLEX, or linux or what. When I had a non-mac HTPC, I needed GPU assistance with my 2.66Ghz C2Duo. For some reason, the mini runs everything beautifully at 2Ghz with no GPU assistance.
I just watched a 9.5GB 1080p movie last night on PLEX that was even transcoding the DTS to AC3 on the fly (PLEX does this, XBMC doesn't) and it didn't drop one frame. I could see the film grain in the movie. Awesome.
Well, just ordered a 2.26GHz+2Gb+120Gb. Will let you know how it goes!
rip or not, it's still 1080p --I think you are referring to the type of encoding? blu-ray media vs mkv conatiners with h264/dts/dd?
I don't know of many people trying to play full blu-ray rips on their mini's. Space/size would be a serious issue at 30-50g each :) 10-12g is about what you'll see for 1080p scene ripped mkv's.
I gather lots of people play different types of files. I have archived 1080p Main_Movie files at native resolution/bitrates with just AC3 and/or DTS. The files are often 17 to 23 gigs. The value of this is to stream full quality images via a front end.
I have played with compressed 1080p H.264, VC-1 converted into other formats and also back to m2ts files. From Vob Merge, Handbrake, RipBot etc. No matter which one, on a larger screen there is* a difference and it is noticeable. For some it may not be. I have seen DVD material converted to MP4 and look near identical. I don't think hi-def is as forgiving as is often stated by many. So, you'll still find some of us just wanting our m2ts archived file, vid as pristine as possible and no further lossee compression.
Cheers
-Phrehdd
I have just 'tested' Killa Sampla, running XBMC under OSX on my Mac Mini (2.26ghz 2gb), its sluggish compared to my Intel quad core 2.6 ghz. Not very supprising since it manages to generate 75% load on my quad core.
It would be nice to have a properly encoded file as baseline though, I don't think this file is very representative since I'm able to play everything else aslong as I have my Mac Mini connected through ethernet (no wireless N router yet).
So far I am very happy with XBMC on my Mac Mini and it's going to replace my popcorn hour a110, which has problemen with huge files too because of its crappy network performance.
It would be nice to have a properly encoded file as baseline though
I'm not sure if this is the link i'm after (can't test at work) but someones signature had a link a torrent file which contains few "regular" x264/mkv 1080p samples.
This is from Hitcher's signature http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=e65a244499019774d2db6fb9a8902bda
I've been thinking about switching to Mini, but not sure because of possible lack of cpu power.
1080p is fine, if you have a clip you want me to test, linky.
Sure!
http://tracker.hatters.org.uk/torrents/killa.sampla.x264.mkv.torrent
Yup, Killa - and it is. However *MY* rip of that scene used to also spike my CPU pretty good until it was running 3GHZ - this on Ubuntu. I also saw drops in King Kong prior to running 3GHZ. XBMC has been improving steadily since then and last I heard 2.5-2.6GHZ was good enough in Ubuntu. If you run VDPAU then an ATOM, Celeron, or even a P4 was supposed to be good enough. With no accel though do not see 2GHZ being enough...
My library isn't "scene rips" or other pirated crap from anywhere else. I rip BD and DVD myself and encode them myself. I save maybe 40% on the file size and when played on a machine with enough power it looks great. Stating a resolution like 1080P means jack without the associated bitrate. Some of the Apple Trailers are 1080 right? Not representative of what *I* and others play....
I'm not sure if this is the link i'm after (can't test at work) but someones signature had a link a torrent file which contains few "regular" x264/mkv 1080p samples.
This is from Hitcher's signature http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=e65a244499019774d2db6fb9a8902bda
I've been thinking about switching to Mini, but not sure because of possible lack of cpu power.
That file is 720p, not quiet what I'm looking for.
Sure!
http://tracker.hatters.org.uk/torrents/killa.sampla.x264.mkv.torrent
Yup, Killa - and it is. However *MY* rip of that scene used to also spike my CPU pretty good until it was running 3GHZ - this on Ubuntu. I also saw drops in King Kong prior to running 3GHZ. XBMC has been improving steadily since then and last I heard 2.5-2.6GHZ was good enough in Ubuntu. If you run VDPAU then an ATOM, Celeron, or even a P4 was supposed to be good enough. With no accel though do not see 2GHZ being enough...
My library isn't "scene rips" or other pirated crap from anywhere else. I rip BD and DVD myself and encode them myself. I save maybe 40% on the file size and when played on a machine with enough power it looks great. Stating a resolution like 1080P means jack without the associated bitrate. Some of the Apple Trailers are 1080 right? Not representative of what *I* and others play....
Well I think Killa isn't very representative, like I said, it manages to generate 75% load on my quad core 2.6ghz (i.e. 3 cores @ 2.6Ghz).
When I'm home, I will look for the file with the highest bitrate and see how that works for my Mac Mini.
My understanding is that the ffmpeg code for multithread doesn't scale much past 2 cores so how you managed that load on a quad is pretty puzzling. Killa' is indeed high bitrate but if you can play it then there's not much you won't be able to play. I can play it with both VDPAU and software decoding without dropping frames other than the normal few at startup <shrug> None of my other encodes ever have issues. Before I tweaked things I *did* see drops in fast motion shots in other movies. The Planet Earth "bird scene" that Killa came from is probably one of the most intense out there no matter how it's encoded...
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you: when your system manages to play Killa smooth, it will probably play anything you throw at it. It is just that I have watched a few 1080p movies on my mini sofar and I haven't noticed any other clips being sluggish.
I haven't checked yet...I will try later today and I will check on the CPU load on my quad while playing Killa aswell.
leftkidney
2009-03-31, 15:37
My 1.83 GHZ Mini has played every 1080p file I've tried just fine
really high bit rate 1080p - like 10mbps or higher x264 1080p files
because I have a macbook that has the 2.0ghz processor and the intel 955gma or 950gma not sure which one, and 2gb ram - but it wont play these files at all, it drops frames like a crack dealer drops crack when the cops are coming and in some cases it locks up
I havent tried linux yet but I ave tried other video players including vlc (which for high bit rate x264 content you have to change settings or it will drop frames anyways, I have changed these and still no luck) that wont play these
Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 8 frames
Muxing mode : Container profile=Unknown@5.1
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 5mn
Bit rate : 12.3 Mbps
Nominal bit rate : 12.9 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 072 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.249
Writing library : x264 core 56 svn-667C
A movie with the specs below played just fine on my 2.26ghz Mac Mini, average CPU load @ 130% with spikes up to 160%. Just for a test, I started a process in the background to generate some CPU load and it was then that I started to notice frames being dropped.
ID: 1
Format: AVC
Format/Info: Advanced Video Codec
Format profile: High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC: Yes
Format settings, ReFrames: 4 frames
Muxing mode: Container profile=Unknown@4.1
Codec ID: V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration: 1h 46mn
Bit rate: 14.5 Mbps
Nominal bit rate: 15.2 Mbps
Width: 1 920 pixels
Height: 800 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 2.400
Frame rate: 23.976 fps
Resolution: 24 bits
Colorimetry: 4:2:0
Scan type: Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame): 0.394
Writing library: x264 core 67 r1125M 10d6ef0
Sofar I am very happy with the performance of XBMC under OSX on my Mac Mini. Hopefully the future will get us VDPAU support.
Does anyone know if VDPAU support relies on Snow Leopard?
The only thing people should be aware of is that the Mac Mini only has a mini DisplayPort connector so it will not be able to play Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD audio streams.
BLKMGK, you were right, my quad core doesn't hit 75% while playing Killa, max is 48%.
really high bit rate 1080p - like 10mbps or higher x264 1080p files
because I have a macbook that has the 2.0ghz processor and the intel 955gma or 950gma not sure which one, and 2gb ram - but it wont play these files at all, it drops frames like a crack dealer drops crack when the cops are coming and in some cases it locks up
I havent tried linux yet but I ave tried other video players including vlc (which for high bit rate x264 content you have to change settings or it will drop frames anyways, I have changed these and still no luck) that wont play these
Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 8 frames
Muxing mode : Container profile=Unknown@5.1
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 5mn
Bit rate : 12.3 Mbps
Nominal bit rate : 12.9 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 072 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.249
Writing library : x264 core 56 svn-667C
I don't have any really high bitrate files, the first couple I checked were ~8mbps. They all play fine in Plex.
I can run high bitrate (peaks@40 Mbit/s) Blu Ray movies (unconverted) without any issues on OS X. So far I watched three of them.The box has been upgraded with 4 GByte RAM.
I also installed Ubuntu 9.04 and a VDPAU enabled XBMC trunk which also works.
The CPU utilization on the Ubuntu install is way lower (~5%) than on OS X (~99%). Without VDPAU the 1080p movies aren't playable smoothly at all on Ubuntu.
However, picture quality on OS X is better and XBMC is more stable as I can use the normal version.
I am coming from the Linux world, love it and used it as an HTPC with VDR and MythTV since ages. This is my first MAC and I have to say how pleased I am!
I took me around two hours for getting the complete Ubuntu installation setup (compiling XBMC VDPAU trunk, installing vdpau libs, latest Nvidia drivers) and about ten minutes for getting a comparable result on OS X (download XBMC).
I didn't try the "Killa" example, yet but will do later.
Nevertheless I am just hoping that h264 GPU acceleration will soon be supported just because of the power footprint.
...
Nevertheless I am just hoping that h264 GPU acceleration will soon be supported just because of the power footprint.
Snow Leopard, perhaps? Crossing my fingers.
I wouldn't put too much hope on it. OS X is already supporting GPU acceleration but it is limited to Quicktime which is a shame. It would have been easy for Apple to open the API to external projects. It seems that Windows 7 is going the same way, at least in the last RC GPU support was limited to WMP.
I wouldn't put too much hope on it. OS X is already supporting GPU acceleration but it is limited to Quicktime which is a shame. It would have been easy for Apple to open the API to external projects. It seems that Windows 7 is going the same way, at least in the last RC GPU support was limited to WMP.
How nasty would it be to make a Mac branch that used Quicktime as the playback engine, the same way there is a Linux branch to use VDPAU? Or is that getting too proprietary/closed?
How nasty would it be to make a Mac branch that used Quicktime as the playback engine, the same way there is a Linux branch to use VDPAU? Or is that getting too proprietary/closed?
Not going to work. As I've said before, the programmer APIs are not accelerated. Only Apple apps are accelerated until Apple exposes how to do this using the published APIs.
There might be some tricks possible but these will not be looked into until after 9.04 release.
Makes sense. Thanks for the info.
is it just possible to install windows on a boot camp partition, and use DXVA with Media Player Classic Home Cinema? Should play everything with that ;)
sure, that's possible. But
a.) we are here to discuss XBMC (you could even convert your movies to a QT format and watch it on MacOS using the GPU acceleration)
b.) who would ever install Windows on the nice Mini;)
Even if QT would be used as an internal palyer it wouldn't be able to support the wide range of codecs XBMC is by using its internal one.
No, we need access to the GPU as VDPAU is providing it on Linux today.
I just tried that sample with the birds flying on a brand new mini with 1 gig installed (I have 4 in the post)
Suffice to say it was not a pretty sight.
Um that being said I tried this sample with 4gigs on a mini and it was choppy as hell. then I tried it on an iMac 2.8 with 4 gigs of ram and it was choppy as hell. Long and short is I think its a shit sample.
I just took stark off as well, looks nice but its like treacle.
The sample is bad, but its still a very high bitrate, I think it is like 35mbit.
I don't think memory really matters anyway, not even the additional video memory you get when you're using 2Gb or more in the Mac Mini. It's all about processing power.
Well as I say the iMac may not be the big blue but I feel confident it can handle local sourced high def material, I guess the point is to establish if the mini could handle it. If simply playing it means its handled it then the stock mini with 1 gigi of ram will do fine, and thats streamed from a NAS.
I don't understand the dropped frames thing in the info section, it says on some films dropped 3, or dropped 16 or what ever but that figure never moves, how does it know how many frames its gonna drop?
PantsOnFire
2009-04-08, 02:11
anyone else taken the plunge with this new mac mini?
yes.. I have... but not with MacOS. I tried Ubuntu 9.04. See here: http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46786