View Full Version : Long file/folder-names & funny characters support
manekineko
2003-10-02, 18:33
what are the chances of us seeing support for long file names through either fat32 or avalaunch's fatx wrapper style?
i would guess that the majority of people who use xbmc/xbmp much have a lot of media with long file names, especially in music. *this has necessitated the use of such kludges as special renamer programs that truncate your mp3 file names before transferring them.
if xbmp added fat32 support, that would be really helpful, especially with drive g support. *i don't know enough about how things access the drive on the xbox to really know, but i could imagine any games placed of a fat32 drive completely flipping out, and if that was the case, then making drive g formated with fat32 a media drive would be a really convenient solution to this problem.
is there any possibility of seeing this?
what are the chances of us seeing support for long file names through either fat32 or avalaunch's fatx wrapper style?
fat32 = 0%
it wont be added by us simply because i dont have the skills for it. this would probably need some changes in the bios. so maybe the evox guys ??
fatx wrapper of avalaunch
now thats something we could add, but unfortunaly avalaunch isnt open source. i can ask the authors if they wanna share the fatx code with me and (more important)
if they release it under gpl. if its not possible for them to share the code that fatx = 0 % as well :-(
frodo
manekineko
2003-10-03, 03:48
what are the chances of us seeing support for long file names through either fat32 or avalaunch's fatx wrapper style?
fat32 = 0%
it wont be added by us simply because i dont have the skills for it. this would probably need some changes in the bios. so maybe the evox guys ??
changes wouldn't necessarily have to be in the bios, but the skills required would still be specialized, and if they don't exist in the developer group, i guess that's that.
just to clarify my point, you'll note that all support for file systems in pcs is done in the os/software level, not the bios level. *it's completely possible to write software-only support for a given file system. *if this was built into xbmc/xbmp though, like i said, i'm not sure if games would work under a fat32 partition since unlike with pcs there is no os to act as an interpreter. *i don't suppose you developers have any pull with either the evox or executor groups do you? *xbmp must be the most popular group in the scene after them, maybe if a developer from here requested it they might listen...?
Gamester17
2003-10-03, 13:28
fatx wrapper of avalaunch
now thats something we could add, but unfortunaly avalaunch isnt open source. i can ask the authors if they wanna share the fatx code with me and (more important) if they release it under gpl. if its not possible for them to share the code that fatx = 0 % as well :-(
avalaunch did say (at the initial announcement) they would release that specific source code under gpl once it finnished. i've spoken to tj and he said they have unfortunate haven't found it stable and have even been it removed from latest ava builds, but he said (as the perfectionists that they are) they will release the code once he finnished it as finds it stable enough for public use, (they might even make it a seprate sourceforge library project).
what are the chances of us seeing support for long file names through either fat32
fat32 = 0%
it wont be added by us simply because i dont have the skills for it. this would probably need some changes in the bios. so maybe the evox guys ??
changes wouldn't necessarily have to be in the bios, but the skills required would still be specialized, and if they don't exist in the developer group, i guess that's that.
just to clarify my point, you'll note that all support for file systems in pcs is done in the os/software level, not the bios level. *it's completely possible to write software-only support for a given file system. *if this was built into xbmc/xbmp though, like i said, i'm not sure if games would work under a fat32 partition since unlike with pcs there is no os to act as an interpreter. *i don't suppose you developers have any pull with either the evox or executor groups do you? *xbmp must be the most popular group in the scene after them, maybe if a developer from here requested it they might listen...?
manekineko, you are right that it would not have to be added to bios, but it would still be hard to add as require low level programming skills. yes, i agree that it be nice with support for it for f: or g: though would recommend ntfs instead (open source in linux os code) but it is not very realistinc and the fatx wrapper would be a more logical way to go (this would also mean long file name support for the xbox original harddrive's c: & e: ...and microsoft also goes a similar way with the xbox dash cdda ripping and naming of those files, see here (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=806429&group_id=64793&atid=508681))
ok, so i was looking for a song to play, and while looking at one of the songs which shows up as 'bom' (actually called 'hom-sha-bom', but the hypen fucked it up, because i have file name conventions turned on). so, i thought, why not something like an 'exceptions' list, that would change how the song shows up, if it had a hyphen in the name. but, then i thought why not elaborate on this, and allow it to rename anything. say you have a movie with a long ass title, or it has xbox illegal characters in it, you could use this list to say change "f:\vid\blah.mpg" > "bitch get off me", or whatever your little heart desires. would also work for songs and the like.
this is mearly a suggestion, but something worth incorporating in my opinion.
eeeh,
first this is the xbmc forum, not xbmp
second with xbmc you can already rename files
third, i dont have a clue what you're talking about :d
frodo
well, i know this is xbmc forums. i posted it here, because xbmc is still in early development, and i figured it would be easier to add now. and i didn't know xbmc could rename files, but that's not what i'm talking about. i'm talking about a list stored in the xbmc directory called rename.txt or something.
hypothetical contents of 'rename.txt':
f:\video\comedy\movie.mpg = "mövie wîith xbox illegal chars. or very long name"
and it would display 'movie.mpg' located in f:\video\comedy as 'mövie wîith xbox illegal chars. or very long name'
now do you get it?
Gamester17
2003-10-18, 15:06
that's basicaly how fat-x2 works in avalaunch, except everything is done automaticaly in the background bound to ftp/file-manager
xbmp fr: http://sourceforge.net/tracker....=697099 (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=64793&atid=508681&func=detail&aid=697099)
maybe this will get shot down mabye not... i would like the ftp to reconigize file names longer then what the file system of the xbox supports, this could be done by the ftp taking the file name and storing it in a database of some sort and then cutting the name down to the correct length to store on the xbox then when listing the ftp it could have 2 modes one to list the files from the database or one directly from the hardhard. plus then xbmc's interface could then show the long file names from the database making it easier to recongize movie files and mp3 files or whatever. reply back if you would like to see this feature implemented. ~~~
apprently no one has any problems with file names being long then 38 characters or whatever the limit is?
42 chars is max, and it should be enough to be descriptive really.
i actually think we should keep to the 8.3 filenames :)
ts
i'm running into problems with like tv shows and stuff like that
simpsons 05x09 - the last temptation of homer.avi
i don't want like partial names, you know? is it really that hard to make the ftp program read from a hidden file in each folder or something... my first suggestion of a database would obviously be a bit more involved, i'm just saying it would nice to be able to give give the files "virtual names". a lot of my mp3 are over the 42 char limit. i can't be the only one. and yes i understand implementation of this would def not be the first thing on the programmers list of things to do.
Gamester17
2004-02-13, 13:16
long file-names & funny characters support, fatx 2.x ( <= link to xbmp feature request on sourceforge) (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=64793&atid=508681&func=detail&aid=697099)
i'm running into problems with like tv shows and stuff like that
simpsons 05x09 - the last temptation of homer.avi
just to be sure, you know you can stream the files from your win/linux computer, don't you? then there's no hazzle moving files to the xbox, and no naming problems.
really, only reason i can see to move media files to xbox would be if you want to being the files to other locations using the xbox.
or if you want to be able to play movies with the computer off. or if your computer doesn't have much space and your xbox does (assuming you've modded the hdd)...
or if you want to be able to play movies with the computer off. or if your computer doesn't have much space and your xbox does (assuming you've modded the hdd)...
nah, those are *not* really legitimate reasons! go 24/7 and buy yourself a couple of hundred gigs for your computer! http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif (it's really worth it! :d )
i have 230gb of storage on my computer, i still prefer things on the xbox as it's a lot quieter. http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
i have 230gb of storage on my computer, i still prefer things on the xbox as it's a lot quieter. http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
you should keep your computer in your server room, not your living/bedroom. http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
i have a 250 gig in my xbox, then in my comptuer 2x36 gig wd rapors in raid 0, an 80 gig maxtor, a 47 gig ibm drive and another 40 gig westerndigital... so i'm not pressed for harddrive space but i was trying to keep all my media on the xbox. i do understand that you can stream from the computer to the xbox but i have 250 on the xbox so i don't have to :)
i actually serve my content from a pc. i call it my "media server" 2 x wd250gb se drives... this way i can add multiple xbox's ... one upstairs... one downstairs... each xbmc has access to the same content, one location etc... much better idea in my mind if your looking at adding multiple "clients/xbox's"
serving media via smb works great with 3 xbox's playing xvid's or playing mp3's etc... my cpu load on the media server is less than 10% and my network suffers little to none.
media server
p4 2.0a
xp sp2 beta
asus p4p800
using onboard 3com 1000mb nic
linksys wrt54g wireless broadband router.
100mb fullduplex network
fyi.... wireless b or g is "ok" / "fair" for xvid streaming etc.. for 1 xbox.. but using multiple wireless xboxs, either b or g doesn't provide good enough stream... high signal db as well.. over -65db... less than 50ft to ap from xbox. wireless g also is a real pain when you have 2.4ghz wireless headphones, and a 2.4g wireless panasonic dss cordless phone, and a 2.4g wireless seimens cordless.... plus the neighbours have 2 diff 2.4ghz phones as well..... wifi just works for inet etc... streaming etc.. not the greatest in my enviroment.... would be nice to see qos utilized in a smb connection between the xbox and pc.... qos is built in to xp is the service is installed but it relies on qos aware apps.... it would be good to dedicated a x% of available bw per xbox... etc... hopefully to avoid dropped / loss frames etc...
you should keep your computer in your server room, not your living/bedroom. *http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
my house isn't that big...
besides i like having the pc and xbox close together - makes for easier debugging and such.
thebeast
2004-02-20, 23:21
i have 230gb of storage on my computer, i still prefer things on the xbox as it's a lot quieter. http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
i, for one, welcome our fatx 2.0 masters.
openczun
2004-12-20, 06:16
i had nearly every episode of the simpsons before i modded my box and added a bigger hdd. sadly, it would take a lot of effort to rename all of the files to be compliant with the xbox filesystem. i think a helpful feature would be to add a "translation engine". this would be executed during any type of file transfer (smb copy, ftp, etc...) through xbmc. xbmc would shorten and strip the original file name for the save, but maintain a "filemap.xml" file which retained the original filename. any time a file list were viewed, the filesystem names would be translated back to the non-compliant names.
any thoughts? would this kill performance? surely there's a way to do something like this, but with a more efficient implementation.
openczun
it's been suggested a few times already, by me and a few others. nothing planned at the moment though
openczun
2004-12-20, 06:54
oops. apologies for the dupe then.
is there a another solution for this problem. i want to copy al my mp3 from the i tunes directory direct to my xbox but i need to rename every thing. and that is no option at all. i thougt to make a iso off al the mp3 but i can't open this file on the xbox.
does anybody have a solution for this problem ?
this is the prog i use to mass rename files for my xbox
http://www.1-4a.com/rename/download.htm
and it is freeware :thumbsup:
there is always the question of what happens if the files are modified through another program...
i guess the database of filenames would need to detect the file is no longer there and remove the entry from the database...
if this whole map is resident in memory it could grow pretty quickly....
i suggest instead to have a simple file in the same directory as the real files (called something like filename.txt or filename.xml). that is simple enough to be hand editted if need be and is possibly generated on any copy through ftp, dvd, smb (though the auto-generation is optional).....
also good is barenamex (i think its called) from the software section of xbox-scene.
crazy-flash
2005-12-21, 15:48
hi there,
currently i am using linux for my xbox but primary because the filenames on the fatx system suck. i know there are renaming tools but i want to keep the filenames!
what i am going to ask is if it would be possible to modify the ftp server in xbmc that filenames appear in the long format for the client but are in fact in xfat-convention on the fs. my idea would be to create a index file for each directory that contains the real name and the long name.
i have also seen a file-class in the xbmc source, does the ftp server make use of this class?
i dont think anyone else wants this feature, i would try to implement this by my own, i only want to know if its possible without too much work.
crazy-flash
2005-12-22, 00:41
thanks for moving the post to the right position.
i see this has been discussed over one year ago. is this now allready implemented? are you even working on it, or will i have to do it on my own?
jmarshall
2005-12-22, 01:07
it's not being worked on.
currently we just truncate the files, no record is kept of the real filenames.
i suggest the following technique if you wish to implement it:
1. implement the renaming in the cfilehd class. just store it in a .realdirectorylist file, and use this file when a getdirectory() operation is performed to translate the names. this is the easy bit.
2. make xbfilezilla use xbmc's file classes. there's 2 ways i see of doing this.
a. it likely uses fread/fwrite etc. "just" implement a base function class which collects the real functions that do the file reading and writing and change the fread/fwrites etc. so that they use the base functions instead. then you just need to convert the fread/fwrites in one location to use the cfilehd methods.
b. redo xbfilezilla as a dll. i don't know how feasible this is, and is probably the harder method. once it's a dll, however, all file handling operations are automatically handled by xbmc's file classes.
good luck :)
cheers,
jonathan
Loto_Bak
2005-12-22, 22:54
wayyy too many potential problems
xbmc doesnt have exclusive control of the xbox filesystem, what happens when other applications move or modify these 'long' files?
there is only one way this should ever be implimented imo, as a wrapper implimented in the bios.
hacks are not the way to fix filesystem limitations.
crazy-flash
2005-12-23, 00:47
@jmarshall
thanks for the tips. i already took a look inside the code to find some important places, which were similar to your suggestions. thank you really much, now i know i am on the right way ;)
i dont't really know what method i use for filezilla yet.
why do you think rebuilding the dll would be hard? (i never coded something for xbox yet)
@loto_bak
it doesn't matter to me if the files get modified outside. i implement this for my own and i will definitly only use xbmc for filetransfers.
also i don't see this as dramastic as you:
-if you loose the entry in the index-file, the file will still be shown in its truncated form.
-if you loose the file, the entry may still exist in the index-file, but i dont really care about this...
dont get me wrong: i would never release something like this, but for my own use it will be ok!
jmarshall
2005-12-23, 09:06
i don't think modification outside of xbmc is a problem:
xbmc will use the file purely as a translation source - if it's asked for the long file, then it will look in the table to see if the conversion has been done to get the actual filename, then just continue (if the user has changed the filename then it'll just report that the file no longer exists).
on a directory listing from within xbmc, we first read the files in, then translate using the table to their long names.
any moved or changed files are viewed as they really are.
i don't see any potential issues with this, maybe i'm missing something?
cheers,
jonathan
Loto_Bak
2005-12-24, 04:28
sorry if i came off rude wasn't my intention
my point was more being, the implimentation is less than ideal. many of the fatx shortcommings can be made up for in other ways.
how so?
music files if they were tagged properly and scanned have no need for long filenames.
movie files are simular to music (less reliably so)
videos other than movies, pictures, and general filesystem maintanence are the areas that benfit.
the places that imo would benifit the most (emulation roms) would be left unaffected
just my 2 cents. take me with a grain of salt as i dont need the feature :)
jmarshall
2005-12-24, 05:22
crazy-flash:
the only reason i suggested that rebuilding filezilla server as a dll could pose problems is due to the fact that you'll need to export the commands it needs. probably starting with the official filezilla sources would be best in this case, and just add the exports necessary for correct xbmc operation. unsure of what is needed. if you've done this sort of thing before (lib/exe -> dll) then go for it.
otherwise, from a scan of the filezilla sources, it uses the win32 readfile()/createfile() etc. interfaces (around 8 functions in total by the looks) which you could replace with custom versions of each function that use the cfilehd class. the idea is that the functions are drop in replacements. for instance,
handle xboxcreatefile( ... )
{
cfilehd *file = new cfilehd()
file->open() / openforwrite() etc.
return (handle)file;
}
then just have a
#define xbox_invalid_handle_value null
in place of the usual invalid_handle_value.
in the other file commands you then just cast the handle back to a cfilehd pointer and do whatever needs doing.
let me know how you get on.
cheers,
jonathan
and do not forget you have to do the same in python. it is using open / fopen / fread and such all over the place.
El Piranna
2006-12-15, 22:21
I have read here at the forums (and suffer myself ;) ) the name lost problem because FATX name limit of 48 character. Well, i've got and idea: at W9x times there was the "DOS name" feature, that it meaned files where stored with a "8.3" name because DOS, but later they where represented under Windows with full, 256 character name. My idea is to have in each directory it need a little txt (xml?) file full name and use it instead stored name. This feature only need to be added at the XBMC write/read functions, so althought apps that don't use that functions (ftp server? :( ) couldn't be able to benefict of it but all the rest (search name, video player, browser and phyton scripts - i supose) yes, so you can see the full name on the screen, internet searches don't fail, etc, etc, etc...
Ey, i have say what was the correct place to implement it!!!:p
how about using a old very old method descript.ion (create by JP-Soft 4DOS)
it is also support by total commander
just need to add a line in descript.ion file when uploading a file