View Full Version : Reference Hardware
boscorillium
2008-11-24, 20:58
I know in the past this has been beaten to death and it always seemed like the caveat was that XBMC for Linux was no where near release and yet now we're there!
Is there any kind of working group on creating reference hardware for support by XBMC developers? I would really like to get involved in that area since I would like to build a system that would be well supported by XBMC developers.
I guess I could just build a system and then be the primary maintainer for that set of hardware.
Any thoughts?
only hardware that would be "well supported by developers" is hardware that said developers own and use themselves
boscorillium
2008-11-24, 23:03
That's all well and good, but if we don't have that spec'd out then it really can't be built by anyone else can it?
So if that's the starting point for reference hardware then so be it. But either way a build sheet would be awesome.
If you'd like to put the work in and you can get a couple developers to agree then I don't see why not. A few pointers:
1. Should be cheap. < $500, and even that seems expensive.
2. a few graphics options. a) integrated for budget and or space aware buyers, b) low profile for those that really think they need the extra punch but don't have that much space in the case, c) bigger graphics in case someone really stupid wants to shell out the money. i'd skip the third choice. keep them from the same manufacturer and in the same family of graphics to keep graphics bugs to a minimum.
3. To begin with, I would not include a case recommendation. Cases choice can have a huge effect on the price and everyone has their own aesthetic opinion.
4. You don't need a CPU that can play killa birdz without missing a beat, that's not a realistic sample.
5. Start a wiki, the message board isn't a good place for this kind of thing.
6. This could evolve with each release so it's okay to pick something that just came out and might be more expensive. prices will drop, and by the time we release the next version that will be the cheaper option and you can create an updated spec with the latest and greatest hardware.
that's all i got for now.
7. hdmi would be good.
8. make sure the sound works out of the box on the latest ubuntu.
9. this should be a recommended build for both windows and linux.
I actually just ordered a new Linux HTPC from newegg with the intention of trying to integrate VDPAU using an itegrated GeForce 9400 mGPU. $500 including a case/PS but no hard drive. I'll contribute information about what works and what doesn't and performance if you want to start collecting information, boscorillium.
A what works and what doesn't database is different from a reference hardware spec. there's another thread on the forums regarding a hardware database.
ultrabrutal
2008-11-26, 09:51
I have this requirement: HDMI1.3a with sound so 1080p24 is supported with HD sound formats
I have this requirement: HDMI1.3a with sound so 1080p24 is supported with HD sound formats
seems reasonable. motherboard suggestions?
I'd suggest any mATX motherboard with 9300m mGPU.
don't be afraid to give specifics. he is talking about a reference spec, not a general idea of what peoples opinions might maybe be.
Asus P5N7A-VM about 110€ in sweden with taxes, 120$ on newegg
has everything you need in a mATX package.
http://www.3dnews.ru/_imgdata/img/2008/10/17/99541.jpg
look at those connectivity options! :)
CPU, RAM, HDD and Cases is up to the user to decide whats important to them. None of those items should cause any driver issues(except maybe a IR-reciever or a LCD)
other boards that use the same chipset with practically the same features:
MSI P7NGM-Digital
GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H
http://www.newegg.com/ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000200280%201070509908%20107172854&name=NVIDIA%20GeForce%209000)
wow. way to not understand reference spec at all. cpu and ram will effect what kind of video can be played. can i play a 720p video with a celeron and 512 mb ram on that board? ir receiver should also be part of the spec.
Asus P5N7A-VM
MSI P7NGM-Digital
GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H
I looked at all 3 of these when I was making my decision. It is important to note none of these will have working audio over HDMI with Ubuntu 8.10, as it requires hda-intel patch NVHDMI which is not in the Intrepid kernel. It should be in 9.04 though.
Downside of the MSI P7NGM-Digital is that no NVHDMI means no digital sound out as this board does not have S/PDIF. Not even a pin header for it. The ASUS and Gigabyte are ok, but it should be noted that the SPDIF ports on both these boards are driven by the Realtek discrete chip, not the nVidia chipset.
Even more complicated, the nVidia chip supposedly doesn't provide "trusted path" meaning that playing Blu-ray discs with a commercial player won't send audio through that requires end to end encryption. The ASUS has an Realtek ALC1200 chip that doesn't have trusted path either, but the Gigabyte has the ALC889 which does. That's probably not important when it comes to XBMC but might be something to note for people who want blu-ray playback directly from discs.
The only other differences between the two are that the ASUS has a DisplayPort jack and a 9300 mGPU and the Gigabyte does not, a 9400 mGPU, and FireWire. (the 9400 being ever-so-slightly higher clocked)
Is there an older board with HDMI that supports digital sound?
It is important to note none of these will have working audio over HDMI with Ubuntu 8.10, as it requires hda-intel patch NVHDMI which is not in the Intrepid kernel. It should be in 9.04 though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that no hardware will work with HDMI-audio on Ubuntu 8.10 without kernel patch?
Downside of the MSI P7NGM-Digital is that no NVHDMI means no digital sound out as this board does not have S/PDIF. Realtek discrete chip.
true, the reference should have S/PDIF-out. Didn't look that close on that board.
wow. way to not understand reference spec at all. cpu and ram will effect what kind of video can be played. can i play a 720p video with a celeron and 512 mb ram on that board? ir receiver should also be part of the spec.
wow, way to go with the constructive/condescending comment. Ofcourse the cpu/ram will affect what video it will be able to playback, thats why I wrote that it's up to the user. Adds some flexibility. Maybe suggest something like this(examples):
________720p____1080p___killasample
e7200____*
e8200____*________*
e8500____*________*________*
As for Ram goes, it's so cheap and anything more than 2gb ddr 2 800mhz will probably(? :) not affect playback.
i suggest a single spec to start with. lets say able to play 720p h264 video for starters. how much cpu/ram will that require?
If were talking about building a new system and considering price/performance I'd suggest a E7200 if you want to be able to play all 720p videos. And most 1080p rips will work as well. If you want a cheaper alternative you'll sacrifice a lot of performance for little money.(only core2duo that's cheaper is the E4400, but it's just 30€)
-I'm no expert on this, my experience is with a P8400. I've compared results on This site (http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Duo+E7200+%40+2.53G Hz) and with the lowest price I could find.
CptCarnage
2008-11-27, 18:22
What about the E7300? Thats running at 2.66Ghz, but with a 3Mb L2 Cache rather then 6. Difference of about $50.
I don't know if the chart that I linked to is representive of the capabilities in xbmc, but E7300 gives a 5% increase in performance on that chart. Id rather go up to a E8400, it has a 24% bump from E7200
The E7300 will clock 3GHZ and will work fine IMO and SHOULD allow for playback of the Killa' sample - if that sample isn't representative then by all means please post a link to one freely available that IS. The 65nm CPU I am using is working fine at 3ghz and a 45nm
2gig RAM is enough, I've not used this specific one but this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231087) should work fine.
The ASUS board appears to have optical out but what would it take to patch the kernel for HDMI audio? Could this be done for the LiveCD? IF it were patched would we be able to then output 7.1 uncompressed audio with XBMC? I assume yes as it would just go straight out with no processing but not having ever done it...
I need to build another XBMC box it looks like and that ASUS board looks pretty good compared to the barebones Shuttle XPC (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101039) I was considering.
TheJaff2
2008-12-01, 09:30
Just thought I'd chime in with my experience with the E7300:
With integrated graphics/sound (on Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H), 3Gb of PC6400 ram, winXP sp3, I would say that it plays ALL 1080p content that matters.
What I mean by that in numbers is: KillaSample 40mbit/s drops 15 frames at stock speed, 7-8 frames when overclocked to 3.00GHz. Have not seen any "normal" 1080p content skip.
could we try to stay on the topic of a reference spec, please.
TheJaff2
2008-12-01, 11:14
could we try to stay on the topic of a reference spec, please.
Sorry bout that. I'll add my system for consideration as a reference system then (skip Case/PSU and HD right?):
************************************************** **
Processor: Intel E7300 @ 2.66GHz
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H
RAM: 3Gb Corsair PC6400 (2Gb is probably enough)
Graphics: Onboard Nvidia 7100
Sound: Onboard RealTek optical/HDMI (coax-header also available)
Cost: 2600SEK or US$320 (in october)
************************************************** **
My experience: Windows XP sp3: plays 1080p without problem, video 1280x720 or 1920x1080 over HDMI, sound over s/pdif, everything smooth in all aspects.
Other findings in the forums: someone reported it (the mobo) working out of the box in XBMC Live (optical sound). Another member reporting (HD?-)sound over HDMI working perfectly in WinXP
this isn't working either. someone needs to take the initiative to start a wiki and be decisive about the specs or we need to start looking into a hardware database (described in another thread).
quake101
2008-12-01, 17:09
this isn't working either. someone needs to take the initiative to start a wiki and be decisive about the specs or we need to start looking into a hardware database (described in another thread).
That would be great! I also think it would stop a lot of these type of threads. :)
Geekzilla
2008-12-01, 19:52
I will be building later this week or early next (depending on delivery) 2 systems based on just these specs:
E7300 - plan on o/c'ing to 3.0 only if necessary and might also test with e8400
Asus P5N7A-VM (9300GT)
2GB RAM
If you would like any tests done other than Killa Sampla, I'd be happy to spend some time testing.
I will be building later this week or early next (depending on delivery) 2 systems based on just these specs:
E7300 - plan on o/c'ing to 3.0 only if necessary and might also test with e8400
Asus P5N7A-VM (9300GT)
2GB RAM
If you would like any tests done other than Killa Sampla, I'd be happy to spend some time testing.
That to me sounds like a good plan. That board has plenty of outputs for video and an optical digital output for sound. If it's possible to get HDMI sound out of it I'd be VERY interested in what steps need to be taken please. If you really want to play try to get hold of a dual core Celeron and see how fast it will go and how well it will work:cool:
One thing I'd point out that we've found on the unRAID forums with regards to reference hardware - just about the time you think you've got the PERFECT setup the retailers stop carrying it! A specific motherboard will be on the market for maybe 6-8 months tops and then it's bottom bin stuff that only discount sites seem to carry. The refrence spec will be a moving target I'm afraid <sigh>
I would already expect it to be a moving target just from the fact that hardware is constantly being updated along with XBMC and support from the OS. But if we choose a chipset we should be able to find motherboards with that chipset for at least a year. That and I mentioned earlier updating the reference specs every 6 months with new releases of XBMC (like a month before the release to get out the bugs and give users a chance to build a new media center if their's is getting old or they want to add another room).
I put together a NewEgg list using the motherboard above. It's not yet showing as a Public List but I have shared it as "XBMC cheap build". If you have a NewEgg account you can pull it up using this -> https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishLists.aspx?WishListNumber=9999386&WishListTitle=XBMC%20cheap%20build but it may overwrite an existing wish list, at least it seemed to for a friend who tested it. Build doesn't include a remote and includes a CHOICE of HDD - both SATA laptop and desktop SATA drives in sizes easily able to accommodate XBMC or maybe just boot it from a USB stick. Case is cheap, they offer several, the P/S is a brand I've used before but is low capacity - 270Watts and not 80+ rated. I have a slight concern as to the physical size of the DVD burner as in reviews of this case DVD size can apparently be an issue. I actually need to build a system so I may build this one - and test an overclocked Celeron while I'm at it - so perhaps I can provide feedback after. I might use an aftermarket CPU cooler to aid in swapping CPUs as the Intel ones are NOT easy to reuse in my experience but will otherwise try not to deviate.
I desire HDMI audio and 1080 video as do many others so this could be interesting.