I built what I think is the ultimate HTPC for XBMC, now I am selling it...

[rernst]

Guys and gals,

I believe I built the ultimate media-phile machine for XBMC. Let me know what you think. I was pondering hawking it on eBay for my cost (indicated below) + 30% (is that a reasonable margin?). Here it is:

The machine sports everything out of the box. HDMI output, digital coax and optical output, VGA connector (if you really want), 8 channel audio (per miniplugs, six USB ports. Really just an 'On switch', no gadgetry about CPU speed or other useless info). Cool 'n quiet architecture (AMD). This system plays everything you throw at it, the CPU is definitely powerful enough. With XP, Media Center, Vista it also plays HDCP. I have only been able to locate the Sony Bluray slimline for $340, which is hefty. You can get an external Bluray for $130.

The total dimensions of the case are 390 x 68 x 348 mm. If you know of a smaller case (multiply all dimensions), let me know. Notice this case has a fanless power supply.

I bought a Silverstone LC19 case (comes in black or silver, I got black) for $200,-, an ASUS M3N78-EMH (NVIDEOA 8200 onboard, no fan necessary) for $85, open box items for $20 less), 2GB or memory for $20,-, and AMD 4050e CPU (notice the e for heat and wattage) for $70 and a Silverstone SST-NT07-AM2 CPU cooler for $29,-. You can add a 500GB drive for $51.

AMD does not sell the wires from the motherboard to optical and coax out, so I bought them off eBay for $20,-

Cost of total system: $529,- rock bottom, add 30%=$690,-.

I understand that a significantly cheaper system can be built but certainly not this small and quiet. Considering the power of this system (the only multimedia box that supports just about anything you throw at it, including VFR - my main reason for building it, there is no set-top box on the market today that supports it). There is no existing set top box that supports the variety of video and audio. Forget Popcorn and Tvix (I am selling mine on eBay).

Notice I actually built and tested this system. Besides the necessity to Flash the motherboard first thing to get it working right it went in a hitch. I'd say it can be put together in an hour if you know what you are doing.

This would be an XP machine running XBMC, vanilla. You would have to get an IR least a remote for $30,-. So add that for the price.

I added some more goodies to my machine, i.e. running XP instead. ($85). If you really, really want media center, it's $110 or you can get a Vista edition (not recommended) for about the same price. SP 1 is so-so and I understand a new service pack is in the works and I bought one but went back to XP.

I also put in a 1TB drive for $50 more. I also got the Microsoft remote with their wireless keyboard which adds $80,-. One could offer a standard keyboard and optical mouse (generic stuff) for $25,-.

I also added a wireless N AP for $50,- (external). I guess you could go for an internal card at about the same price but I wanted to be able to plug in more devices since it is somewhere totally different in the house. The connection is rock-solid through many walls.

I ditched the XBMC FTP and run Filezilla server which is extremely powerful, reliable and feature rich. I need to sync the content between the box and some local drives and the only way to use a good piece of software for FTP syncing requires a rock solid FTP server.

I know the vanilla Tvix 4100SH sells for $370 but it does not support a fraction of the formats, has no DVD ROM player, it's FTP server only supports one connection and constantly craps out, does not support remote desktop, does not support VFR, does not support DRM (my configuration supports wired Ethernet Internet access but as I suggested I got the Access point instead). Tvix only supports two external USB drives, this box supports at least six directly off the case and however many you want off a USB hub. You also have to add the cost of a hard drive to the Tvix if you actually want it to be a media server. If you manage to play an ISO on this box without it hanging up at least once, you are lucky. It does not play six channel AAC either, in any container, only AC3.

Popcorn plain sucks.

Feedback? Is this something you think someone could sell?

Note I am not trying to peddle the box here and will not sell it here (I'll tell you where to get the parts).

[Dabear3]

any pics?

have you tried it with xbmc live?

[topfs2]

The total dimensions of the case are 390 x 68 x 348 mm. If you know of a smaller case (multiply all dimensions), let me know. Notice this case has a fanless power supply.

Bwuhaha mine is smaller ;)

http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/3688/
Case dimensions: 65mm(H) x 210mm(D) x 258mm(W)

e8400
G45 Chipset
HDMI out, s/pdif the works.

Fanless PSU and room for DVD/Rom slimeline and 2.5" HDD (but who wants HDD when you run on USB)

I havent added a DVD/Rom because I so rarely use it and have used the extra space for a bigger fan.

P.S I think the LC-19 and or the LC-09 looks better than my case but I had serious size restrictions on this build

Cheers,
Tobias

[yazoo]

Bwuhaha mine is smaller ;)


:laugh: :grin: thats not something I would boast about :rofl:

[rernst]

Bwuhaha mine is smaller ;)

http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/3688/
Case dimensions: 65mm(H) x 210mm(D) x 258mm(W)

e8400
G45 Chipset
HDMI out, s/pdif the works.

Fanless PSU and room for DVD/Rom slimeline and 2.5" HDD (but who wants HDD when you run on USB)

I havent added a DVD/Rom because I so rarely use it and have used the extra space for a bigger fan.

P.S I think the LC-19 and or the LC-09 looks better than my case but I had serious size restrictions on this build

Cheers,
Tobias

True, but pretty severe limitations as to what motherboard you can stick in there. Still it looks like a nice case but connectivity is limited. Doesn't seem to take any expansion cards but it's a tradeoff between size and heat. WHat sort of processor do you run in there?

What is the total noise output, do you know. I would like to measure mine but don't quite know how.

I must say the LC case looks more like a shelf piece next to a nice Ars Technica setup but size does matter for some. The Tvix and Popcorn have a very small footprint and that appeals to the hackers in us.

That being said - do you think these custom-built machines can be turned into a real business?

(BTW, I am still awaiting my slimline drive which contrary to my expectations could not just be picked up at Fry's).

I do disagree on one point, though and that is swapping the internal drive for a USB standalone. That sort-of defeats the idea of simple, elegant and fool-proof design. I am still struggling with that part. I do not believe the integration of ripping into XBMC is a good idea. There are just superior solutions (may I mention Handbrake again) which do an outstanding job. I transferred my whole Tvix over a day using FTP (Filezilla client and server) from my old Tvix box. I have three quadcores cranking on 100+ episodes on Bab 5 (done with that) and 50+ DVDs of X-Files (yeah, I like this stuff). They put out enormous heat. To expect a player to do this sort of thing is not seeing the box as a playback device but merely another computer. It also adds more noise and do you really want to have two more cords dangling next to the Bang & Olufson? ;-)

I operate the whole thing using a trivial remote now except when I do Netflix Watch Now which I completely legitimately watch through their player but I have to switch out of XBMC into IE. That is not what the average Joe should have to do and a solution would be great. I mean how hard is it to fire up an IE clone (the whole of the IE core is available to slap together your own browser). Yes, I hate being tied to XP but having used Linux, XP and Vista extensively I still consider Linux in the 'multimedia trial stage', where XP is a fully mature system. We all hate DRM but it is a reality and unless you are going to take up the good fight with Netflix to watch your free videos under Linux in half a decade from now you have to go with the motions.

But then if the whole thing might be a money maker I'd try to put some effort into integrating this into XBMC myself. They sell an absolutely dumb box (no browsing, no true selecting movies, no hard drive buffering) for 100 bucks. XBMC could throw this in just for grins.

I will have a closer look at your case. It is half of the LC 19, which is nice.

One final word I forgot: It just might be that the commercial viability also hinges on the relaxation of the Digital Rights Act to provide for fair use of material that you legitimately own. I cannot help but believe that the MPAA is eventually going to cave in on that as it would *increase sales*, not increase piracy. Once that is taken care of every Tom Disk and Harry will want to load their 700 DVDs instead of buying a 100 DVD changer.

[rernst]

Bwuhaha mine is smaller ;)

http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/3688/
Case dimensions: 65mm(H) x 210mm(D) x 258mm(W)

e8400
G45 Chipset
HDMI out, s/pdif the works.

Fanless PSU and room for DVD/Rom slimeline and 2.5" HDD (but who wants HDD when you run on USB)

I havent added a DVD/Rom because I so rarely use it and have used the extra space for a bigger fan.

P.S I think the LC-19 and or the LC-09 looks better than my case but I had serious size restrictions on this build

Cheers,
Tobias
Does the stock CPU fan fit in there?

[Tuneld]

e8400
G45 Chipset
HDMI out, s/pdif the works.


Tobias, I have really spent my whole day finding components and case for a XBMC pc (time to retire the xbox) but have not been 100% satisfied with my findings.

Your spec seams really nice. Want to share what cooler, mobo (DG45FC perhaps?) and CPU you used in this build?

And is 60W really all you need? Or did you change that to a picoPSU 120W ?

Sincerly
Tuneld
Sweden :)

[harryzimm]

You cant build an ultimate machine with an amd proccesor. They suck at 1080p video decoding compared to intel.

[topfs2]

Does the stock CPU fan fit in there?

Barely, the new versions of the Intel Coolers (low profile) does but you cant have a 2.5" HDD and DVD-Drive if you use the Intel cooler.

NorthQ have one with the zalman design that would fit I believe whilst still being able to have HDD and DVD

Tobias, I have really spent my whole day finding components and case for a XBMC pc (time to retire the xbox) but have not been 100% satisfied with my findings.

Your spec seams really nice. Want to share what cooler, mobo (DG45FC perhaps?) and CPU you used in this build?

And is 60W really all you need? Or did you change that to a picoPSU 120W ?

Sincerly
Tuneld
Sweden :)

You guessed correctly its the
Intel DG45FC
Intel e8400 (actually switched it to a e4300 now because I dont need 1080p playback and my gaming computer needs more horsepower ;) )
2 GB ram
The biggest problem was to find a PSU, I really didnt dare to use the bundled PSU because it probably idle below 60 but during the boot Im guessing at 80W.
I bought the PW-200M from mini-box (http://www.mini-box.com/PW-200M-DC-DC-power-supply?sc=8&category=13) (As your from sweden I bought if from www.mini-pc.se
I wouldnt run it on less than the PicoPSU 120, even according to specs my PSU lacks power on the 3.3v rail but hey, it works :)

True, but pretty severe limitations as to what motherboard you can stick in there. Still it looks like a nice case but connectivity is limited. Doesn't seem to take any expansion cards but it's a tradeoff between size and heat. WHat sort of processor do you run in there?

What is the total noise output, do you know. I would like to measure mine but don't quite know how. ...

I aimed to keep it small so it would fit in my bookshelf but yeah ideally I would have wanted to have an expansion slot for TV Tuner or better audio card.

The bundled 40x40 fan must go its really noisy. Also the case seems to magnify the 40x40s fan noise with the cover, but that might be due to the fact that the bundled 40x40 spins fast.

Cheers,
Tobias

[migueld]

That's a beautiful case. I'm surprised since last time I checked, the HTPC cases from silverstone were not very appealing. Nice work, thanks for sharing.

My only issue is... what happens if and when Apple adds blu-ray to the Mac Mini? Suppose that Apple prices such machine at $799. That machine would be capable to play anything you trow at it, would have smallest footprint, and OSX's sleep function means that it's instant on. Wireless N. Completely silent. How would a custom HTPC compete with this? It's tough competition.

Personally a killer HTPC should have an amazing PVR system, equal or better than Tivo. OR should be a server/HTPC combo and should be able to host 5 or 6 drives. Preferably all inside the case, no external devices, and as elegant as possible. That would beat the Mac Mini hands down.

[QuietTime]

e8400
G45 Chipset
HDMI out, s/pdif the works.

Is the on the linux or windows build? Im having problems getting s/pdif out to work on the linux build. Any help would be appreciated.

[topfs2]

Is the on the linux or windows build? Im having problems getting s/pdif out to work on the linux build. Any help would be appreciated.

Linux build but Im not using s/pdif actually, I can´t live without my stereo :)

Anyway I´ve read that its supposed to work but you need to be sure you have un-muted it in alsamixer (I reckong gnome-volume-control should do the trick aswell)

Hopefully you get it to work
HDMI Audio is a no go due to drivers, although I get some form of audio out of it, I can make out the navigation sounds through the static. It will probably work in interpid+1.

Cheers, hope you get it working.
Tobias

[topfs2]

That's a beautiful case. I'm surprised since last time I checked, the HTPC cases from silverstone were not very appealing. Nice work, thanks for sharing.

My only issue is... what happens if and when Apple adds blu-ray to the Mac Mini? Suppose that Apple prices such machine at $799. That machine would be capable to play anything you trow at it, would have smallest footprint, and OSX's sleep function means that it's instant on. Wireless N. Completely silent. How would a custom HTPC compete with this? It's tough competition.

Personally a killer HTPC should have an amazing PVR system, equal or better than Tivo. OR should be a server/HTPC combo and should be able to host 5 or 6 drives. Preferably all inside the case, no external devices, and as elegant as possible. That would beat the Mac Mini hands down.

New Apple mini would be lovely! but I cant see how your killer PVR would beat it, 5-6 drives makes ALOT of noise, not talking about the size of the thing. I say NO to servers in my living room ;)

Also silverstone make some great looking cases, the one rernst choosed is really good looking, same with LC-09

[migueld]

New Apple mini would be lovely! but I cant see how your killer PVR would beat it, 5-6 drives makes ALOT of noise, not talking about the size of the thing. I say NO to servers in my living room ;)

Also silverstone make some great looking cases, the one rernst choosed is really good looking, same with LC-09

The cases I like most are the Zalman HTPC cases, but the obvious downside is the price tag :-/ Regarding noisy hard drives, I'm very familiar with silentpcreview.com and I'm a silence freak :laugh: so it's familiar ground to me. My drives don't make much noise (I got 1TB green power drives). I know what you mean by noisy servers; I would say that one needs to be very careful when choosing components.

[rernst]

You cant build an ultimate machine with an amd proccesor. They suck at 1080p video decoding compared to intel.

Where did you get that from? The 4050e that I have has no problems. It also software upscales easily. Intel is overrated and adds another $100 to a box that you might spend better.

BTW, I now finished mine with coax and optical output and a slim DVD drive.

I have yet to find a better-looking and more capable machine. I added a remote keyboard ($50, IR) and fully loaded remote (media remote via eventghost).

[rernst]

That's a beautiful case. I'm surprised since last time I checked, the HTPC cases from silverstone were not very appealing. Nice work, thanks for sharing.

My only issue is... what happens if and when Apple adds blu-ray to the Mac Mini? Suppose that Apple prices such machine at $799. That machine would be capable to play anything you trow at it, would have smallest footprint, and OSX's sleep function means that it's instant on. Wireless N. Completely silent. How would a custom HTPC compete with this? It's tough competition.

Personally a killer HTPC should have an amazing PVR system, equal or better than Tivo. OR should be a server/HTPC combo and should be able to host 5 or 6 drives. Preferably all inside the case, no external devices, and as elegant as possible. That would beat the Mac Mini hands down.

I find that hard to believe that Apple will sell you a 1TB box with Bluray support for $799,-. It can't even play standard h.264. There is very little open source software for it. What sort of remote would it offer? Apple is known to make it hard for third party products to enhance the hardware. This is what they make their money with, essentially radically overpricing it (yes, they make it look pretty but so can I).

A rock bottom Bluray is $120,- as far as I can tell, a 1TB drive is $100,- and Apple surcharges 100%.

You can hook up as many USB drives to a box as you want - I am not sure why you would want to have that in a huge case. I look at it like that: I hook up one or two drives on top of what's inside. In six months they come out with a 2 or 2.5 TB drive and I stick that one in.

I agree with your PVR suggestion but right now I only see the HDPC-20 on the horizon for me. Who knows more about this gadget? From what I see it is Vista proprietary and for good reason: They will stick tons of DRM on it to make sure you cannot record any content. After all, TiVo shut the opensourcce community out after it got them to jumpstart them. The MPAA must be really nervous about DirecTV, in particular since Amazon and Netflix hooked up with them. Does this mean you get get DRM-free Amazon and Netflix Watch Now content? I doubt it.

There will be no open PVR for satellite content and it certainly isn't the comunity's fault.

[migueld]

You can hook up as many USB drives to a box as you want - I am not sure why you would want to have that in a huge case. I look at it like that: I hook up one or two drives on top of what's inside. In six months they come out with a 2 or 2.5 TB drive and I stick that one in.

This is probably a personal preference, but I'd hate having 3-5+ external drives alongside a mac mini. That means 3-5 bulky AC adapters, the drives themselves cluttering a table or something; aesthetically it's just not elegant. A single unit is far more elegant IMHO. Besides, one saves money since internal drives are cheaper.

I find that hard to believe that Apple will sell you a 1TB box with Bluray support for $799,-. It can't even play standard h.264. There is very little open source software for it. What sort of remote would it offer? Apple is known to make it hard for third party products to enhance the hardware. This is what they make their money with, essentially radically overpricing it (yes, they make it look pretty but so can I).

A rock bottom Bluray is $120,- as far as I can tell, a 1TB drive is $100,- and Apple surcharges 100%.

Yes the mini wouldn't match the same HDD spec as the suggested HTPC, but like you suggested, one can add external drives. It'll be a bit more expensive, but not a deal breaker IMO. I guess it depends on what you want to compromise. You have a valid point there. Regarding the remote most people use apple's remote which comes with the machine. If you don't like that, there are other options, some examples: ps3, harmony, dinovo etc.

Regarding h.264, what do you mean? AFAIK the 1.8 ghz model plays h.264 720 easily, and the 2.0 ghz model handles h.264 1080 fine... I'm assuming the specs will be better on the next revision, so there shouldn't be any h.264 issues.

[Geeba]

and the 2.0 ghz model handles h.264 1080 fine... I wouldn't bet my bottom dollar on that.... :no: theres heaps of hardware threads all saying you need around about the 3.0Ghz mark to run native 1080 HD

[rernst]

and the 2.0 ghz model handles h.264 1080 fine... I wouldn't bet my bottom dollar on that.... :no: theres heaps of hardware threads all saying you need around about the 3.0Ghz mark to run native 1080 HD
I just tested. My 4050e AMD with an 8600 on the motherboard plays 1080p without so much as a hitch. It's a myth that these processors are underpowered. I would go so far as to say that they are overpowered given a decent graphics card. Off course, the weakest link in the chain determines the results but the processor definitely isn't.

Look at the initial specs I posted which allows you to build a machine for roughly 500 bucks in a beautiful case. Trust me, it plays full 1080 including AC3 sound (I don't have a DTS receiver and this motherboard offers no such option - I do not know of any as a matter of fact).

Don't be fooled into buying an Intel CPU.

[harryzimm]

Try playing some of the planet earth 1080p samples or a high bitrate movie that has a resolution over 1920x800 without black bars and tell me that cpu can handle it. Sure it can play some 1080p but you said you built the ultimate, surely that means it can play all 1080p. I had my amd x2 5600 clocked at 3.4 ghz with a 8400 gs in a shuttle xpc and still was dropping frames on planet earth and some movies. Recently i upgraded to a gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H with onboard nvidia 7100 through hdmi and a intel E8400. Not a single dropped frame on any content including the killa sample. I think you need to do some more research before making claims of 1080p playback on that hardware.

By the way what platform are you testing on?

[rernst]

Try playing some of the planet earth 1080p samples or a high bitrate movie that has a resolution over 1920x800 without black bars and tell me that cpu can handle it. Sure it can play some 1080p but you said you built the ultimate, surely that means it can play all 1080p. I had my amd x2 5600 clocked at 3.4 ghz with a 8400 gs in a shuttle xpc and still was dropping frames on planet earth and some movies. Recently i upgraded to a gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H with onboard nvidia 7100 through hdmi and a intel E8400. Not a single dropped frame on any content including the killa sample. I think you need to do some more research before making claims of 1080p playback on that hardware.

By the way what platform are you testing on?

I am testing under Windows. I am fairly certain that the graphics drivers for Windows are better optimized than the Linux ones, after all, Linux is not really a market for Nvidia. Did you use PCI express x16? Shuttle is generally considered a budget platform, but that is arguable. The Asus motherboard I am using has Hypertransport v 3, that will also make a difference. Also note that this is an onboard 8600 card with shared memory, i.e. there are no PCI bus problems, or so I presume. All of that taken together would explain the difference.

Did you use DDR 800?

Again, the reason for me was to have a *cool* (as in temperature) machine.

I will check with a full rez. HD title.

[avickery]

Try playing some of the planet earth 1080p samples or a high bitrate movie that has a resolution over 1920x800 without black bars and tell me that cpu can handle it. Sure it can play some 1080p but you said you built the ultimate, surely that means it can play all 1080p. I had my amd x2 5600 clocked at 3.4 ghz with a 8400 gs in a shuttle xpc and still was dropping frames on planet earth and some movies. Recently i upgraded to a gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H with onboard nvidia 7100 through hdmi and a intel E8400. Not a single dropped frame on any content including the killa sample. I think you need to do some more research before making claims of 1080p playback on that hardware.

By the way what platform are you testing on?

Hate my first post to be contesting someone else's point, but this is most likely due totally to the fact that you're using Linux. Running my hardware configuration (6000+, Gigabyte 790G motherboard, IGP clocked to 800Mhz, *NO DISCRETE VIDEO CARD*, 2 gigs DDR2-800, WD Caviar) under XP/Vista 32-bit has absolutely no trouble decoding full 1080P. Very very very little stutter.
I was planning on using Linux, but honestly, the state of VGA drivers for Linux is abysmal.

[avickery]

Also, the "e" series of CPU's from AMD have proven themselves very capable.
There's no reason that a couple hundred Mhz should have a big effect on video decode. Modern GPU's (I.E. the RV7 series ATi Radeon 3300 powering my 790G mobo) have the UVD, which take the brunt of work for hardware decode (now encode too!) off the CPU. Proper firmware and OS drivers are needed to take advantage of that functionality, though.

Hopefully with AMD's recent attitude towards the FOSS community, and further revisions of their drivers, we'll see improvements for Linux. But as it stands, running my system in Linux would be extra work for less overall performance.

[rernst]

Also, the "e" series of CPU's from AMD have proven themselves very capable.
There's no reason that a couple hundred Mhz should have a big effect on video decode. Modern GPU's (I.E. the RV7 series ATi Radeon 3300 powering my 790G mobo) have the UVD, which take the brunt of work for hardware decode (now encode too!) off the CPU. Proper firmware and OS drivers are needed to take advantage of that functionality, though.

Hopefully with AMD's recent attitude towards the FOSS community, and further revisions of their drivers, we'll see improvements for Linux. But as it stands, running my system in Linux would be extra work for less overall performance.
Let me add to that that I tested with Gothika which is full 1080p, no black bars and it plays back flawlessly. Rule of thumb is that you need 2 Ghz to do 1080p. I am running XP. Sorry it doesn't work right for you but indeed Linux drivers are simply not as optimized. I am all for the open source community but the fact of life is that Linux simply does not have as good of hardware support as Windows. Linux won't even run on my box due to miserable lack of support.

[avickery]

Amen!

[rwparris2]

Modern GPU's (I.E. the RV7 series ATi Radeon 3300 powering my 790G mobo) have the UVD, which take the brunt of work for hardware decode (now encode too!) off the CPU. Proper firmware and OS drivers are needed to take advantage of that functionality, though.

XBMC doesn't support this regardless of platform and or drivers.

[rernst]

XBMC doesn't support this regardless of platform and or drivers.
There is a lot of hardware driver support (such as the AMD CPU driver support) that needs no cooperation with the playback mechanism. Hypertransport doesn't need, either. I understand Purevideo HD doesn't either, but I may be corrected. All these things happen under the covers, no need for XBMC to be aware of.

[avickery]

Correct. The application, if I am properly informed, makes use of the OS and existing drivers/graphics systems. Hence, it should be independent of, and doesn't need to be aware of that functionality.

Whenever I get home from work and clients after that, I'll try to post some benchmarks if anyone is interested. Otherwise, you can check out the OCWorkbench benchmarks on the mobo,as I'm using a mostly identical setup.

Might not be tonight, as I live on the southern shore of Lake Erie. Don't know if you all watch CNN, but we got over a foot in the last 24.

[harryzimm]

Hate my first post to be contesting someone else's point, but this is most likely due totally to the fact that you're using Linux. Running my hardware configuration (6000+, Gigabyte 790G motherboard, IGP clocked to 800Mhz, *NO DISCRETE VIDEO CARD*, 2 gigs DDR2-800, WD Caviar) under XP/Vista 32-bit has absolutely no trouble decoding full 1080P. Very very very little stutter.
I was planning on using Linux, but honestly, the state of VGA drivers for Linux is abysmal.

Yes you are correct about the linux drivers. My shuttle with x2 5600 clocked at 3.2ghz can play the killa sample without dropped frames on xbmc for windows but no way on linux. Unfortunatly i much prefer the linux port. To be honest i got so sick of amd 1080p problems that i upgraded to a intel based motherboard with a e8400 (using linux) and haven't had a problem since. It plays all 1080p including planet earth and some home ripped blu rays easy.


My advise to anyone looking to build a htpc still stands. Go intel , the simple fact is they are better and worth the extra cash.

Rule of thumb is that you need 2 Ghz to do 1080p.

I think that's just a tad bit optimistic mate. Im not trying to offend anyone its just my experience. Have a search on the forums for the killa sample and post your playback results at 2ghz.

cheers

[avickery]

That's my biggest (and only) gripe about Linux. Drivers.
For everything else I can use it for, I use a *nix variant (Mac OS 10.5.4 on my laptop, SLES9 on my home desktop (OpenLDAP domain controller), and
as many systems at work as I can possibly run Linux on;

I recently built 5 high-end Dell T7400 8-Core Xeon workstations with 4-disk Raid 10 SAS arrays, NVidia QuadroFX cards, etc... for heavy-duty FEA (Finite Element Analysis) with Ansys. Linux is 10%-15% faster per job, plus provides better HPC support, than XP-64. So Linux wins there.

Intel/AMD to me has always been about the same. Most applications have pretty identical bang-for-buck ratio. I chose my recent HTPC rig mostly due to the fact that I wanted a minimal system with maximum features. The GeForce 8300 series IGP motherboards are really nice, and correct me if I'm wrong, do offer 7.1 HD Audio over HDMI, which is sweet. Mine doesn't have that feature. BUT, from video decode to casual gaming, performs slightly better, and has more features that I was looking for for about 2/3's the price overall.

Also, at work, with the exception of a couple servers, we're an Intel-only shop.

[topfs2]

There is a lot of hardware driver support (such as the AMD CPU driver support) that needs no cooperation with the playback mechanism. Hypertransport doesn't need, either. I understand Purevideo HD doesn't either, but I may be corrected. All these things happen under the covers, no need for XBMC to be aware of.

XBMC use internal codecs so it doesnt matter the slightest what codecs you have install, which purevideo is. When decoding video in XBMC the only thing important is CPU, doesnt matter if you have a onboard gfx solution or a fully fledged nvidia 9xxx card.

The better gfx card will handle 1080p better because it generally handles bigger textures better but that is usually small jitters.
But for dropped frames and real stutters gfx card doesnt matter

Cheers, Tobias

[avickery]

XBMC use internal codecs so it doesnt matter the slightest what codecs you have install, which purevideo is. When decoding video in XBMC the only thing important is CPU, doesnt matter if you have a onboard gfx solution or a fully fledged nvidia 9xxx card.

The better gfx card will handle 1080p better because it generally handles bigger textures better but that is usually small jitters.
But for dropped frames and real stutters gfx card doesnt matter

Cheers, Tobias

I just had to look that up. For some reason I had it in my head that FFMpeg supported gfx hardware accelerated encode/decode. Turns out not true. Kind of a let down, but I understand the need to use cross-platform-compatible tools, open source code, etc.

[rernst]

XBMC use internal codecs so it doesnt matter the slightest what codecs you have install, which purevideo is. When decoding video in XBMC the only thing important is CPU, doesnt matter if you have a onboard gfx solution or a fully fledged nvidia 9xxx card.

The better gfx card will handle 1080p better because it generally handles bigger textures better but that is usually small jitters.
But for dropped frames and real stutters gfx card doesnt matter

Cheers, Tobias
Nah, Purevideo is not a codec, it is (here NVidia):

H.264, WMV/VC-1, and MPEG-4 Hardware Acceleration
NVIDIA PureVideo provides ultra-smooth playback of H.264, WMV/VC-1 and MPEG-4 HD and SD videos with minimal CPU usage.

I very much assume you have to program the player to exploit it but I am not sure I see the need since all of the above can be played back by today's medium powered processors.

[topfs2]

Nah, Purevideo is not a codec, it is (here NVidia):

H.264, WMV/VC-1, and MPEG-4 Hardware Acceleration
NVIDIA PureVideo provides ultra-smooth playback of H.264, WMV/VC-1 and MPEG-4 HD and SD videos with minimal CPU usage.

I very much assume you have to program the player to exploit it but I am not sure I see the need since all of the above can be played back by today's medium powered processors.

Purevideo Decoder http://www.nvidia.com/object/purevideo_overview.html

and the definition on codec: A codec is a device or program capable of encoding and/or decoding a digital data stream or signal. The word codec may be a combination of any of the following: 'compressor-decompressor', 'coder-decoder', or 'compression/decompression algorithm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codec

And yeah the program needs to be able to exploit it, ie PowerDVD and WinDVD but purevideo can be run without them.

[rernst]

Purevideo Decoder http://www.nvidia.com/object/purevideo_overview.html

and the definition on codec:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codec

And yeah the program needs to be able to exploit it, ie PowerDVD and WinDVD but purevideo can be run without them.
Yeah, according to Wikipedia. Only use I was familiar with was codec as in algorithm (VC1/AVC/AVCHD/Sorenson, etc.). But who am I to argue with the masters?

[topfs2]

Yeah, according to Wikipedia. Only use I was familiar with was codec as in algorithm (VC1/AVC/AVCHD/Sorenson, etc.). But who am I to argue with the masters?

If you have a better source for what a codec is or not I love to know because Im long from an expert in this and its not my area of expertise at all.

Here are microsofts explanation to what a codec is:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/faq/codec.mspx
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/c/codec.html

Anyway I never meant to offend you just wanted to tell you guys not to buy and extreme GPU as it currently wont help XBMC decoding anything.
Hopefully we will support GPU offloading down the road, we had a GSoC project to get it working and NVidia is patching FFMpeg to get GPU acceleration aswell. Still the nvidia one is miles away from working and vendor specific.

Cheers,
Tobias.

[Sixfoota21]

Im about to order and build a HTPC.However, after reading multiple threads I still cannot decide if using an External Player would give me a better picture than using default XBMC player. I have a 3.0ghz 700mhz single core AMD processor with 2gigs ram on my current PC. I can play my dvd's fine on my 1080i 42" without enabling the "High Quality Software Upscaling" option under video settings. But when I enable it, my screen stutters and voice is lagging, however, picture quality is noticeably better. I'm assuming this problem is because of my specs ( Task Mgr shows 66% CPU usage under this condition) ..I'm guessing that an intel motherboard with HDMI and onboard intel gma 4500hd along with e8400 CPU should enable me to use this feature with no problems on a windows vista PC. Also I noticed when I am using the High Quality Upscaling feature, when i play a dvd and chg the OSD interface handling to bob or weave, the stuter goes away, but so does the better picture quality. Can someone using "High Quality Upscaling" please help me with some advise !!

[Sonic132]

I have an even better ultimate machine for xbmc. Here are the specs...
* Dimensions: Approximately 325mm (W) x 98mm (H) x 274mm (D)
* CPU: Cell Broadband Engine
* GPU: RSX
* Main Memory: 256MB XDR Main RAM
* Embedded VRAM: 256MB GDDR3 VRAM
* Hard Drive Disk: 2.5” Serial ATA (80 GB HDD)
* Main Input/Output: USB 2.0 (x4), MemoryStick/SD/CompactFlash
* Ethernet: 10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T
* Bluetooth: 2.0 (EDR), Wireless Controller (up to 7)
* Wireless Communication: IEEE 802.11 b/g
* Screen Size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
* HDMI: HDMI out – (x1/HDMI)
* Analog: AV MUTLI OUT x1
* Digital Audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL x1)
* Disc Drive: Blu-ray/DVD/CD (read-only)

And we raise the curtain only to reveal a (drumroll) Sony Playstation 3! Yes that's right, the PS3.
Only problem is I don't know exactly how to compile xbmc and/or Boxee for YDL 6.1 or any other YDL for that matter. Anyone have any idea how? They say they work with Ubuntu but don't make any mention of Yellow Dog.
Send me a message if you know how or know where a thread is that mentions how.

Thanks!

[harryzimm]

I have an even better ultimate machine for xbmc. Here are the specs...
* Dimensions: Approximately 325mm (W) x 98mm (H) x 274mm (D)
* CPU: Cell Broadband Engine
* GPU: RSX
* Main Memory: 256MB XDR Main RAM
* Embedded VRAM: 256MB GDDR3 VRAM
* Hard Drive Disk: 2.5” Serial ATA (80 GB HDD)
* Main Input/Output: USB 2.0 (x4), MemoryStick/SD/CompactFlash
* Ethernet: 10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T
* Bluetooth: 2.0 (EDR), Wireless Controller (up to 7)
* Wireless Communication: IEEE 802.11 b/g
* Screen Size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
* HDMI: HDMI out – (x1/HDMI)
* Analog: AV MUTLI OUT x1
* Digital Audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL x1)
* Disc Drive: Blu-ray/DVD/CD (read-only)

And we raise the curtain only to reveal a (drumroll) Sony Playstation 3! Yes that's right, the PS3.
Only problem is I don't know exactly how to compile xbmc and/or Boxee for YDL 6.1 or any other YDL for that matter. Anyone have any idea how? They say they work with Ubuntu but don't make any mention of Yellow Dog.
Send me a message if you know how or know where a thread is that mentions how.

Thanks!

http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40236

[Anastrophe]

superb thread :)