View Full Version : Boot Xbox with Compact Flash (CF) Card/Drive?
skovgaard
2004-05-20, 16:54
hi
i have no idea whether the following suggestion would be possible, but i like it:
1) remove the xbox hd and replace this by a compact flash drive via usb (or by using a cf-to-ide adapter)
2) prepare the cf-drive, in order that an xbox boot-up will enter xbmc directly
3) stream av-files from networked pc's, internet, dvd-drive, etc.
4) case-mod the xbox to complete noise-less operation
anyone who knows if this is done already or possible to do at all?
Gamester17
2004-05-20, 17:07
1) remove the xbox hd and replace this by a compact flash drive via usb
that is certainely not possible, usb harddrives are not supported much less booting from one. besides, topic not really only xbmc related.
dancingmonkey
2004-05-20, 19:29
you can probably do it with this.
cf->ide adapter (http://store.compuapps.com/inidecfcflre.html)
although im not sure if it would work.
i am really interested in this too..
of course i know if it works.. it works via cf/ide
huh? this is never gonna happen surely?, the c: and e: partitions at very least have to be correct, e.g. 4 and bit gb for e: (there also has to be the e:\tdata and e:\udata\ folders present) plus the aorund 700mb-800mb for c: and similar sized amounts for the cache partitions x, y, z- so you'd need a 8gb cf card surely, and access times would be slow.
this would never work, can a cf card even be formatted in fatx?
Gamester17
2004-05-21, 12:35
this would never work, can a cf card even be formatted in fatx?
well, in theory if a cf => ide/eide adapter really makes a 8gb size cf card apper as a standard ata harddrive then it should be possible(?)
microdrive has a sustained data rate of 3.5mb/sec (average), fast cf "40x" delivers 6mb/sec and "80x" delivers 12mb/sec. because the new 60x and 80x cf cards are on the verge of shipping the 40x cards have plummeted in price in the last few weeks from over 230 ukp to less than 160.
this was a taken from a reasonably old article as a 1gb cf card costs at minimum £100 in the uk, although the 2.2gb (40x) can be had for £120.
currently 4gb is the max and the prices i've seen are around $499, and there has been announcements of 8gb cf cards coming out soon so i guess the size issue isn't a problem but the read/write speed (and i assume it is half duplex type- e.g. reading and writing can't be done simultanoeusly- not sure how much gets written by xbmc) and the price would make it prohibitive
forget any other flash media, most of them are just getting to the 1gb mark and are even more expensive
it is very possible to use the ide to cf adapter... it is currently being used in the ipod linux project as a hard drive replacement as the ipod 1.8" drives are too expensive. although the read/write speed of compact flash is still very slow in comparison it would still be ok for software loads. i think most of you have missed the original point to the post. there would be no need for gb cf cards as it would simply be holding the xbox os as xbmc. not more than a couple hundred megs for everything. everything else would stream via the network. you could even use a slimline aftermarket dvd-rom if you didn't care about reading original xbox discs and get the size of your xbox down. i bet you could build a custom xbox case at an inch thick or less... your limiting factor would probably be the cpu heatsink or the caps on the power supply!
simonmcc
2006-03-15, 13:37
i have googled and searched the forums, and found one thread here (http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.pl?act=st;f=10;t=4151).
i use my xbox soley for xbmc, and wonder if it is possible to remove the hard disk, and replace it with a compact flash card, connected through a cf to ide adaptor.
i stream all my media from a networked server, so storage on the xbox is not an issue. is access speed an issue?
has anyone managed this? is it possible? what is the smallest amount of space you would need on a disk?
telmnstr
2006-12-22, 18:33
Hello,
I'm looking into the possibility of moving to a Compact Flash card in my XBOX. I'm thinking that XBMC doesn't execute too many writes to disk, so I shouldn't have to worry too much about wear. By the time the card errors out (they have wear leveling), they will be a few bucks to replace.
The issue will be the ATA locking commands that the XBOX uses. Has anyone attempted to do such a thing? The CF card is IDE and will appear like a standard IDE drive to the host, and I believe they generally follow most of the ATA specification so it should have the password protection.
My goal is to reduce power consumption as I move to run the xbox on a 65 watt power supply straight from 12vdc. The CF will also be less shock prone. I will keep the DVD-ROM to satisfy the Xbox, and to have another removable storage medium. I currently use USB key fob storage as my primary removable storage.
XBMC has a huge future as a mobile platform.
Gamester17
2006-12-23, 18:04
Booting to a Compact Flash card (with a IDE/ATA converter) will work, though I'm not sure 2GB will be enough as a standard Xbox uses 8GB total spread on five partitions (C, E, X, Y, Z). However I would not recommend it as XBMC and Xbox games write quite a lot to the harddrive (for caching, logs, databases, and saves, etc.), so the card errors will occur much sooner than you expect, (I believe the avarage Compact Flash handles around 10,000 erase/write cycles which isn't as much as it sounds). I recommend getting a new 1.5" or 2.5" IDE harddisk-drive instead (those designed for laptops and portable media/MP3-players), they can handle the rewrites, they are cool, quiet and low-power, plus they can handle much higher G-force shockes than a normal 3.5" desktop harddisk-drive.
C-partition: 314.00MB
E-partition: 4,881.63MB
X-partition: 749.89MB
Y-partition: 749.89MB
Z-partition: 749.89MBthe size of C, X, Y, and Z partitions should definitly not be changed, maybe you could make a small E-partition with XBpartitioner if you have a 4GB Compact Flash memory, I don't know
A compact flash card is ATA compliant. I.E. It behaves just like a hard disc when connected to an ATA interface. Not sure is the lock function is availiable.
I have thought about this idea myself, hence me finding this forum thread. My question is:
Can the X,Y & Z partitions be smaller?? Are they only used for savegame data?
I'll do some research myself, but if anyone have done some tinkering with partition sizes for the xbox, they could help out.
If the partitions can be made smaller, then the XBMC system should easily run from <1GB CF card.
Gamester17
2007-01-09, 18:45
Can the X,Y & Z partitions be smaller? Are they only used for savegame data?Again, the size of C, X, Y, and Z partitions should definitly not be changed. C is the 'operating-system' so to speak, X, Y, and Z are used for temporary caching by games (not game-saves) so original Xbox games expect each of them to be 750MB!
E is the partition used for game-saves (and Microsoft dashboard Audio-CD rips), if any then E is the only one you could try to change.
This is true, however, if the xbox is being used as a dedicated media center then the xbox won't require to cache any game data. I think the ppl who would look at running CF cards in place of a HDD would go down this road. If you want games as well then 200+GB HDD would be the choice to make.
One of my XBbox's is purely for media, all of which is streamed from my Samba shares. I just recently lost a HDD in my other box recently, hence my thoughts toward using CF instead.
If I were to try using a CF card, is there a way of setting the partition sizes to be less than the standard?
I have access to CF cards and the adapter, just need a little assistance with the tweaking of partitions, and I'm happy to post the results. This could be a very interesting experiment! :)
Gamester17
2007-01-11, 13:50
FYI; XBMC uses the X, Y, and Z partitions as well for caching (of things like subtitles, video and audio cache, skin textures, etc.), plus the fact that XBMC constantly write stuff to its many databases (eg. bookmark times, resume times, video settings, etc. etc. etc.) and logs (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23162), so even if you only use XBMC you will not get away from disk writing and rewriting/overwriting, I think that a CF card will get trashed so I do not recommend it, ...and as for game caching; just because you don't have games on the harddrive doesn't mean others only don't run Xbox games from CD/DVD. Maybe you can get a MicroDrive instead?, a MicroDrive is a real harddrive but it is exacly the size of a CF card and uses the same interface, they don't generate much heat nor noise (but new ones are however quite expensive).
I haven't tried to create custom sized partitions myself, the only Xbox tools that I imagine may be customized (maybe by just editing a xml/ini/cfg file but maybe the source code must be modified) to support that is XBpartitioner, XboxHDM, or EvoX/EvolutionX NewHD Boot CD (by editing disk.bin).
Good luck
FYI; XBMC uses the X, Y, and Z partitions as well for caching (of things like subtitles, video and audio cache, skin textures, etc.), plus the fact that XBMC constantly write stuff to its many databases (eg. bookmark times, resume times, video settings, etc. etc. etc.) and logs (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23162)
Thanks, some useful information :D. I have been working with CF cards for some time now, and the company I work for used them for HDD replacement about 3 years ago. Only then they were 64MB! The systems back then and till recently operated Win98, and these system are still out there. The newer systems run WinXPe. The CF control IC does has wear leveling built in, so I believe I will get years of operation from a CF card before it goes bung :)
The question on my lips is, How much space will XBMC need in the X,Y & Z partitions to operate? And the XBox will never ever be used to play games, even from the DVD.
It would be nice to use a 1GB CF card, these are really cheap! Above this they get expensive, and the HDD looks more attractive.
Have you ever monitored how much data you throw into these partitions?
jmarshall
2007-01-12, 01:49
You should be able to operate within 1GB reasonably easily. The cache drive (Z:) is only used for small items (a few k) on the whole, or if you are extracting a compressed .rar file (which you're unlikely to be doing).
The key would be to get the kernel to be happy with the drive partitioning.
Good luck, and let us know how you go.
You can also use a high-capacity SD card with the SD-CF-IDE adapter combination. A 60x 8GB SD card will probably be more than enough.
ultrabrutal
2007-01-29, 00:52
a 8 gb compactflash card can be bought for less than $200. it would be nice to know it it works with a ide-cf adapter and if it's possible to format card with xboxhdm and lock it for softmodded box or if you need a modchip for it too work
Murmlgrmpf
2007-04-07, 17:10
actually i bought an double sided cf to ide adapter and installed an 4gb cf card to it.
My HDD is unlocked, and i have a flashed tsop.
When turning on the Xbox with the adapter connected, i get either an Error 07 or Error 09 screen of death. One of the two errors indicates wrong jumper setting (master/slave).
Anyone having some idea how to fix or debug this?
When a blank hdd is connected to the xbox, the problem does not occure. (This way i figured out which of the two errors is due to jumper setting)
Loto_Bak
2007-04-10, 02:50
error 07 is hdd timeout
error 09 is the kernel not liking the hdd for some reason. Most likely size (apparently a xbox with a debug bios throws this error when connected to a 8gb hdd because its too small)
regarding using flash memory as a replacement...
stick with slower speed flashmemory. Generally they are rated for more read/writes than faster media.
ultrabrutal
2007-04-12, 01:00
my guess too would be a problem with the size since a normal Xbox harddrive is 8 or 10 gb's. It needs to be formated correctly but of course you already know this
matt518000
2007-04-13, 07:27
if you want to use 8G CF , you can find the 8G supportd IDE-CF adapter in the http://www.soarland.com ,http://www.soarland.com/images/ide-cf/STIC4005.JPG
Hi,
I'm new to all this... A couple of weeks ago I stumbled upon a video of an old Xbox with XBMC on it along with a nice blue LCD on the front; mine has been gathering dust for years so I thought converting it to a media centre would be great given that the optical 5.1 always sounded pretty nice plugged into my AV amp :p.
I read about soft-mods :confused2:, and about 3 seconds after that, I ordered an X3 along with the new front panel that has USB ports and a nice big LCD; I am still waiting for them to arrive.
Next I turned the old box on and the first thing I noticed was the shear amount of noise it generates. I found some tutorials here and there, installed an 80mm 11db fan and replaced the heat sync and fan on the GPU with a nice new zelman one. I flicked the box on to see how it sounded and the only thing I could hear was the near silent hum of the AC power supply; so i was pretty happy at that point :), until I plugged the hdd back in :mad:. Hence me finding this thread.
While the signup process for this forum was taking ages I ordered a 24mbps 8GB compactflash card and an IDE adaptor for it; so if anybody has got this working I would be heavily interested in a few tips.
Thanks, AJ
Sorry about the double post, I could not find an edit button.
FYI:
I am planning to flash it with 'x3.3294.bin', when i get the chip, before using 'Auto Installer Deluxe v4.01' to setup the HDD, XBMC and the XBMC dash.
Please tell me if I have missed anything important here that is vital to the running of XBMC.
Thanks, AJ
Well my CF card arrived with the adaptor, I had to make up a new power cable as the CF to IDE adaptor has a floppy drive connector on it.
However I can't get it up and running as my X3 has STILL not arrived!
Gamester17
2007-06-02, 22:37
Please tell me if I have missed anything important here that is vital to the running of XBMC.Be warned! I already stated earlier in this topic-thread that I think the Xbox will trash a solid-state Compact Flash memory in a very short time (maybe days, weeks, a few months). I highly recommend you use a 4200rpm/5400rpm 2,5" IDE harddrive instead, those are practially silent and will not get trashed.
8GB CF cards are £30 now; by the time it dies it will be even cheaper to replace.
AJ
As gamester said why not try a 2.5 laptop hdd. i put one in mine its so quiet even with my ear next to the box i cant hear it. plus they run very cool. i put a 100 gig seagate one in my xbox. best mod i ever did. :)
I have a Toshiba 80GB laptop drive that I considered using; it claims to be a pretty quiet one but I can still hear it across the room.
I have also considered chucking the old case and making this thing a little more slimline at some point; any ideas or links with that in mind?
Aside from that, 8GB CF cards are £30 now, if the card dies in a few days then i will consider other options.
AJ
Gamester17
2007-06-03, 19:55
if money is no object then the XBCase is a sweet option:
http://shop.bestplayer.de/product_info.php?pID=52281
http://shop.bestplayer.de/product_info.php?pID=52218http://shop.bestplayer.de/product_info.php?pID=52288
http://shop.bestplayer.de/product_info.php?pID=52280
...doesn't look like you can buy just the case any more
A simple and cheaper case-mod is otherwise X3CP front:
http://shop.bestplayer.de/product_info.php?pID=34007
I have ordered the X3CP front with my X3 that has STILL not arrived.
That other one looks bigger than the standard case; I am thinking slimline anyway. If I cut the CPU heat sync down a few mm I may be able to get it into the case off something like this:
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products/42/84/222/DV-300-K/index.html
That way it would match my amp nicely.
AJ
Murmlgrmpf
2007-08-13, 14:19
I have got news concerning the problems i got when trying to boot the xbox with cf card adapter attached to ide.
In fact it seems as if most of the cf to ide adapter boards lock master and slave even if there is just one cf card on the board.
the result is that there are too many devices on the bus und thus the xbox refuses to boot.
User27,
Did you ever get the CF card working?
No one has ever given us a definite answer on that front.
My only concern is that you won't be able to lock it...
I think I'll just try the laptop HD instead. Seems to be better bang for the buck, and nearly silent.
Wes
12mb/s = 1.5Mb/s you will find a dramatic speed decress
As an experiment to try and build an ultra mintaure casing (I am a latecomer to the game, I know), I decided to try a CF to IDE converter and plug in an 8GB Seagate CF microdrive (ST68022CF).
I have also read the other threads about running the xbox with <8GB on a CF drive (hence why I used a microdrive)
Flashbios & Cromwell correctly recognise the drive.
The xecuter 3 bios (Build 3294) (using an xecuter 3 ce chip) brings up a hardware error 9. Googling around I "think" this is because the alleged 8Gb drive is actually 7.5GB, and the bios demands at least an 8Gb drive.
I only use xbmc on the box, nothing else.
a) Am I correct that the cromwell bios won't boot XBMC?
b) Is there any bios that will boot XBMC that will be more flexible on the drive characteristics? Some of the old discussions suggested even a 4GB drive would do - but it seems not with this bios, and I can't even get it into the main bios screen - stops at the "error" page.
Thanks in advance
Matt
Matt
spamenigma
2008-02-04, 22:56
Decided to have a go at this myself, I didnt do any research just bought a 16GB CF card, and IDE>CF adaptor to see if this will work for an XBMC solution.
I managed to format it with the slayers disk, but that process was very slow, even the booting into slayers was extremely slow.
I'm researching now and found this thread as after it formatted, It wont boot, just sits there for ages, then gives the service error. Anyone else had any success with this, and any performance issues? the CF I bought was 150X 16GB OEM SAMSUNG COMPACT FLASH CF CARD.
Adapter is set to master.
hi there,
i tried it yesterday plugging an Transcend x133 8GB CF card into an CF-to-IDE adapter.
Then figured that it first didn't work right, which was because the cheapo CF-to-IDE adapter didn't have the DMA Lines connected (PINs 44 and 43 on the cf side). After fixing that the card performed quite well and XBMC is booted-up in no less than 10 sec.
Also handling is quite responsive... i would definetly recommend it if there wouldn't be that one issue. This terrible delay if returning from a Movie with the "red"-button. it takes like 30 sec and seems to write/read quite some stuff to the disk?! why is that?!
To the Setup:
I'm streaming all my movies via SMB... (that's also why i don't want the big hdd in the xbox)
and have the latest T3CH Release (T3CH XBMC 2008-03-23 SVN rev12263)
hmm maybe i just have to by a faster CF card...
cheers
Hmmm .... you would expect that if the card's speed is the problem XBMC would also load much slower ... Or are there a lot of small files which are written to disk. According the transcend website the data transfer rate is 21.5MB/sec in the best circumstances. Strange fact: in the datasheet of the flashcard I can't find anything about write or even read speeds ???
Hi there,
hmm well i can't explain, XBMC itself doesn't seem any slower.
Only three things anoy me, in regards to responsivenes (speed):
<< Opening a movie >>
CF: takes around 3-7 sec
HDD: about the same
the delay is still okay...
<< Changing from a running movie to running in Background >>
CF: takes around 10 - 15 sec
HDD: around 7 sec
The CF Card Time is way to long.. so you cannot really use the feature.
Interestingly: Testing the same setup with an old TECH Release (T3CH XBMC 2006-11-12 2.0.1) the change from foreground to background video was only around 3 sec on the CF Card (didn't test it on the HDD)
But the old release is not too nice to use...
<< Stopping a Movie >>
CF: takes around 20 - 30 sec
HDD: < 3 sec
the sad thing is that the movie is still running during that 30 sec closing time.
[All test were made with the current Tech build: T3CH XBMC 2008-03-23 SVN rev12263 and either an Transcend 8GB x133 CF Card or a Stock 8 GB HDD]
I was able to get WriteSpeeds of 6 MB/s for sequential wirtes through FTP. Didn't check the card in my PC.
I also found that more than one Write access at a time would decrease the throughput to around 2 MB/s total.
Maybe someone who know's which functions are called for the above mentioned functionality can shed some light into theses anomalies. Preciesely: which files are written?! which are read?! why do we need so much disk IO to open/close/Background a movie?!