DELL Studio Hybrid PC - perfect for XBMC? ...quite expensive though...

[pantherman007]

I've been struggling with what direction to go for my next build (living room friendly XBMC setup with HD capabilities). The Mac Mini has a lot of things going for it (size, noise), but has dated internals. The Omaura TF5 case is good size-wise and aesthetically, but isn't available in the US yet. AOPEN and other SFF cases just didn't feel quite right for the living room.

Enter the Hybrid that Dell just released today: http://www.dell.com/hybrid. Small form factor, Core2Duo from 1.86 to 2.6, Blu-ray option, 802.11n option, HDMI & DVI over Intel X3100, S/PDIF, up to 4GB RAM, etc. Starting at $499. Possibly a perfect combination (at least on paper).

I need to do some more digging on the CPUs (side effects of using T models with a slower bus speed) and noise (how loud is the fan?), but at first glance it looks promising for hosting an HD-capable XBMC build in a nice, small package.

Just thought I'd share my musings...

[Jeroen]

I was just thinking about making a thread on the Dell Hybrid. I guess it's a design you either love or hate. I love it personally and it seems like well suited for a mediacenter pc, but the pricing is ridiculous imo.

[pantherman007]

I think we're paying for the compact size. The Mac Mini is the only real equivalent that I'm aware of and it starts at $599 (with older internal components and fewer upgrade options).

I didn't see anything on the Dell website about its acoustics. If the reviews say that the Hybrid is pretty quiet, I think I'll give it a try.

[Livin]

it looks pretty nice.

I'd only be concerned about the Intel X3100 and intensive graphics

[Gamester17]

Starting at $499Starting at $499(US) yes but that is for the 1.86GHz model, the 2.00GHz model is actually $874 (because it can only be bought with a monitor and Windows Vista Home Premium) and that is not cheap IMHO.

Otherwise the Intel X3100 GMA will due just fine (the older Intel GMA 950 in the Mac Mini is even good enough).

[pantherman007]

Starting at $499(US) yes but that is for the 1.86GHz model, the 2.00GHz model is actually $874 (because it can only be bought with a monitor and Windows Vista Home Premium) and that is not cheap IMHO.

Otherwise the Intel X3100 GMA will due just fine (the older Intel GMA 950 in the Mac Mini is even good enough).

That's not what I see on their website. If you start from the baseline $499 model and customize from there, you can upgrade the internal components without needing a monitor or OS upgrade. Going to the 2 GHz CPU and 2GB RAM brings it to $599 (sans monitor and with Visa basic).

I wish they had enbedded an IR receiver in the front panel, though. The remote that they're selling as an option is RF.

[pike]

Starting at $499(US) yes but that is for the 1.86GHz model, the 2.00GHz model is actually $874 (because it can only be bought with a monitor and Windows Vista Home Premium) and that is not cheap IMHO.

Otherwise the Intel X3100 GMA will due just fine (the older Intel GMA 950 in the Mac Mini is even good enough).

fine for 720p maybe, but even GM965 (X3100) isn't really powerful enough to do fluent skin rendering at 1080p I am finding out here.

[imagine]

Seems like nice hardware in a pretty package.

But 499$ = 3085 SEK, on Dell's Swedish site the base model costs 5990 SEK = 969$, and that's with a Celeron 550 :confused2:
It would be cheaper to import it from the US.

[_Spook_]

I have had my Dell Studio Hybrid for a couple of days now. Works fine with 1080p material and skins. T8100 cpu, 3GB memory and 320GB drive.

[pike]

I have had my Dell Studio Hybrid for a couple of days now. Works fine with 1080p material and skins. T8100 cpu, 3GB memory and 320GB drive.

You may think it's fine, but I say it's not. I have an Aopen Minipc with a T7500 cpu, 2x2GB of 667Mhz DDR2 Ram and ~256GB hdd

I've had this system for more than 6months, a bit longer than "a couple" of days. There's severe isses with the BUS on this system. The fact that GPU and CPU share same Ram (on same Bus) is a MAJOR bottleneck in the design.
You won't notice this bottleneck in 720p, but you will notice it sooner or later in 1080p O U T P U T.

The problem shows itself when we do processing on the O U T P U T, processing like VSYNC and/or HQ Upscaling. I even found cases where certain gui operations combined with 25/30fps videos + vsync + certain modern skins (with more highres textures) pushes the whole system over the edge, resulting in vsync pulling the whole system to 20fps, resulting in MASSIVE video desyncing issues.

So again, just because you havent found these issues, doesn't mean they don't exist.

The Santa Rosa platform is simply not designed for 1080p O U T P U T (has nothing to do with DECODING)

[_Spook_]

You are probably right. But seems to work fine for me, for now atlease. Let me try some other 1080p stuff and see. As long as it works for me im happy :)

[americantabloid]

Thanks for interesting information. I think a lot of people are looking for the perfect hardware to run non xbox Xbmc on. I have been waiting for apple to upgrade the mac mini to higher specs, mainly the cpu, but now there also seams to be some issues with the intel graphics, so hopefully Apple will use some other solution for the graphics also.

I really like the size of the mac mini...

Spook, how is the sound level on the Dell?

Best regards
at

[pantherman007]

Thanks for interesting information. I think a lot of people are looking for the perfect hardware to run non xbox Xbmc on. I have been waiting for apple to upgrade the mac mini to higher specs, mainly the cpu, but now there also seams to be some issues with the intel graphics, so hopefully Apple will use some other solution for the graphics also.

I really like the size of the mac mini...

Spook, how is the sound level on the Dell?

Best regards
at

Rumor on the 'net is that Apple will be holding one of their "Events" on September 9th. Since I'm still on the fence about the Dell box, I'm going to wait to see if Apple puts out an updated Mini and then make a purchase decision that week.

I'd be curious to know what the acoustics on the Dell are, too.

[elupus]

_Spook_ you don't even have to be decoding anything.. nothing using opengl will do more than 30fp fullscreen 1080p

[_Spook_]

Tried some other 1080p video today and your right, it doesn't handle 1080p at all times. But I still like it. Looks good and the noise level is good.

[pike]

Sadly it seems like Linux drivers for Intel Gfx is CRAPTASTIC. I compared ProjectM @ 1080p on XBMC on OS X/GM950 vs. Ubuntu/GM965

OSX: 20-60fps (usually 30-40)
Ubuntu: 5fps

I even made videos, it's extremely depressing.
The Mac Mini is weaker hardware; older chipset & GFX,
less RAM (1GB vs 4GB),
older+slower CPU (OS X had a 1.87Ghz CoreDuo, Ubuntu had a 2.2Ghz Core2Duo)

[Gamester17]

Sadly it seems like Linux drivers for Intel Gfx is CRAPTASTIC.Maybe compile and try the latest test drivers from Intel? version xf86-video-intel 2.4.97.0 driver (the final 2.5 version should become available later this year):
http://www.intellinuxgraphics.org/download.html
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/

[Axel Foley]

I was just ordering this Dell minipc but I was a little bit worried about the GPU (Intel GMA X3100) so I've done a little bit of research:

Here you can see a description of the GMA X3100: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#GMA_X3100

Here you can find a really useful comparison table: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#Table_of_GMA_graphics_cores_and_chipsets

From the table, you can see that the GPU used by Dell Studio Hybrid doesn't support hardware acceleration for VC-1 (except for Motion Compensation for WMV9) and AVC, it supports hardware acceleration (VLD + iDCT + MC) only for MPEG-2.

It supports DirectX 10.0 (with the latest drivers) and OpenGL 1.5.

The drivers (linux and windows) currently do not support GLSL, so it doesn't meet "real" XBMC minimum requirements (OpenGL 1.4 + GLSL).

Now, having understood that it's not a perfect solution for XBMC and HD playback, the questions I'd like to ask are:

- Is it good enough for XBMC and HD playback?
- Does the CPU (Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T8100 (2,1 GHz, cache L2 3 MB, FSB 800 MHz) compensate the GPU weaknesses? At the end, I would just like to use it as my XBMC device and I want it to be smooth and fluid during operation.

I really like the product's low power consumption, low-noise levels, sleek design, gigabit ethernet, HDMI and DVI output, DVD slot-in reader etc. the price is a little bit high here in Europe, but not that much. So I thought I found the perfect solution for my living-room.

Are there any comparable products on the market with the same characteristics but with a better graphic subsystem in the €600-€650 price range?

I'd love to see an XBMC certified htpc systems list...;)

[pike]

Fujitsu Siemens have made another "Intel mini pc", newer architecture than X3100

Esprimo Q Series (http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/products/deskbound/personal_computers/esprimo_q_series.html), espescially the 5030 has GMA X4500 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#GMA_X4500) Chipset.
Now, this is probably better then X3100.

That design isn't very pretty though IMHO

[americantabloid]

There is also the Aopen XC Mini MP45DR,

http://www.aopen.nl/products_detail.aspx?Auno=2661

The new one also has the Intel X4500 chipset. Nice size for use as a HTPC. I just wondering of the soundlevel from that unit, anyone has one or its predecessors?

Best regards
at

[pike]

Predecessor: pike's Intel Graphic Benchmarking Weekend (http://xbmc.org/pike/2008/08/30/intel-graphics-benchmarking-weekend/)

[Gamester17]

From the table, you can see that the GPU used by Dell Studio Hybrid doesn't support hardware acceleration for VC-1 (except for Motion Compensation for WMV9) and AVC, it supports hardware acceleration (VLD + iDCT + MC) only for MPEG-2.That does not matter at all because there is currently no GPU hardware acceleration support in XBMC what so ever, for more information see:
http://xbmc.org/wiki/?title=Hardware_Accelerated_Video_Decoding
and
http://xbmc.org/wiki/?title=GSoC_-_GPU_Assisted_Video_Decoding


Fujitsu Siemens have made another "Intel mini pc", newer architecture than X3100

Esprimo Q Series (http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/products/deskbound/personal_computers/esprimo_q_series.html), espescially the 5030 has GMA X4500 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#GMA_X4500) Chipset.At first glance at the specification of the Fujitsu Siemens ESPRIMO Q5030 E-Star4 fitted with a Intel Core2 Duo P8400 (2.26GHz at 1066MHz FSB) (http://sp.fujitsu-siemens.com/dmsp/docs/ds_esprimo_q5030.pdf) it does looks like the perfect mini-pc for 1080p playback, at least after FFmpeg added their new multi-threading optimizations (which might take a few more months though before they make it into XBMC as the have not even been added to FFmpeg own mainline SVN yet), ...but on a seconds glance the price of this unit too expensive for my taste, plus the fact that it does not come with a built-in infrared receiver and now MCE remote control is inccluded.

[americantabloid]

Predecessor: pike's Intel Graphic Benchmarking Weekend (http://xbmc.org/pike/2008/08/30/intel-graphics-benchmarking-weekend/)

Hi Pike, I how is is the sound level on the Aopen Machine you have?

Regards
at

[Jeroen]

There is also the Aopen XC Mini MP45DR,

http://www.aopen.nl/products_detail.aspx?Auno=2661

The new one also has the Intel X4500 chipset. Nice size for use as a HTPC. I just wondering of the soundlevel from that unit, anyone has one or its predecessors?

Best regards
at

I love those Aopen boxes, the new one looks a lot better than the old one, which looks quite nice already. I'm on the verge of getting an htpc, this might well be the one I'll be getting. And yeah, I'm very interested in the sound production as well, as that's one of the reasons I'm replacing the xbox (I'll always love it though :))

[pike]

Hi Pike, I how is is the sound level on the Aopen Machine you have?

Regards
at

It's quieter than the mac mini I have. But none of them handles 1080p decoding.
You gotta understand, when the laptop cpu inside needs cooling, there's only a small fan to do the job. And a small fan spins fast to to this job.

With that said the Aopen is considerably Quieter than the Mac Mini.

[americantabloid]

Thanks for the reply.

I have no experience with either the mac mini or the aopen, so your information is most welcome. I have read a couple of comments of the mac mini being quite and if you say the aopen is quiter than it is good news for me. Hopefully it will be even quiter with a new 45nm based processor.

Would say that the Aopen is louder or quiter than a comman projector with the lamp in low mode?

Which of the Aopen or Mac seams to best built?

(Hopefully the drivers for the new Intel x4500 will be better than results you got for the 965 chipset.)

Regards
at

[pike]

http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/Resources/3/1220793207.jpg VS. http://www.aopen.nl/AOEB-GPS/PIC/4052_miniPC%20IV-Back_220x220.jpg

Fujistu-Siemens vs. Aopen :rolleyes:

Mac Mini ? has an even older chipset than X3100
With that said, Linux Intel Gfx Drivers are not very good... This was what my test was about...

[o_dog]

Why have a bluray drive? Can this computer even decode it? If i remember correctly the x3100 can't and I have no idea if the cpu is strong enough but i doubt it. Seems strange that they choose that gpu instead of the brand new x4500HD.

[pike]

both these Mini PC's are basically a LAPTOP, so a LAPTOP CPU and LAPTOP Chipset

[Gamester17]

Why have a bluray drive? Can this computer even decode it? If i remember correctly the x3100 can't and I have no idea if the cpu is strong enough but i doubt it. Seems strange that they choose that gpu instead of the brand new x4500HD.What are you talking about? XBMC doesn't support Blu-ray, see => http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=31630

[PantsOnFire]

- Is it good enough for XBMC and HD playback?
- Does the CPU (Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T8100 (2,1 GHz, cache L2 3 MB, FSB 800 MHz) compensate the GPU weaknesses? At the end, I would just like to use it as my XBMC device and I want it to be smooth and fluid during operation.


There are a couple of pretty well detailed demo/reviews of this PC on youtube if you search for them. The guy is pleased to heaven about the system until he gets playing 1080p content. It's actually quite heart-breaking, he's very excited and happy about the whole system until he runs MCE and finds the menus to be sluggish. No mention about if he updated his gfx driver however..

I dont know how xbmc and it skins compare to implementation of Microsoft's efforts, but smooth or fluid I would not use to describe the motion in MCE showing on screen in these youtube reviews.

[diazamet]

What are you talking about? XBMC doesn't support Blu-ray, see => http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=31630

I think his point was, why did Dell put a Blu-ray drive in a machine that is incapable of supporting Blu-ray at the hardware level?

[o_dog]

i wasn't talking about xbmc but the computer. Whats the point of a bluray drive if you can't decode the movies?

[Gamester17]

The DELL Studio Hybrid PC that comes with a Blu-Ray Disc Drive probably uses CyberLink PowerDVD (http://www.cyberlink.com) or Corel WinDVD 9 Plus Blu-ray (http://www.corel.com) software for playback (however both of those only features GPU hardware acceleration on NVIDIA and ATI graphics controllers, not Intel which DELL Studio Hybrid PC seem to come with).

[martroy]

The DELL Studio Hybrid PC that comes with a Blu-Ray Disc Drive probably uses CyberLink PowerDVD (http://www.cyberlink.com) or Corel WinDVD 9 Plus Blu-ray (http://www.corel.com) software for playback (however both of those only features GPU hardware acceleration on NVIDIA and ATI graphics controllers, not Intel which DELL Studio Hybrid PC seem to come with).

Yes, there is a GPU that is installed with the blu-ray option. According the PC Pro review (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/220890/dell-studio-hybrid.html), it is an addon mini-PCI Broadcom BCM70010 video decoder. The only reference I could find on Dell's website is in the Optical Drive section when custom building it: "6X BD Combo Drive(CD/DVD+/-R;Bluray Read)w/ Media Accelerator"

Martin

[frumpy_uk]

Fujitsu Siemens ESPRIMO Q5030 - anyone tried this box yet?

[navigates]

Fujitsu Siemens ESPRIMO Q5030 - anyone tried this box yet?

If you select the blueray option, you do get hardware acceleration. Still looking for the perfect xbox1/xbmc replacement.

[greenteagod]

The DELL Studio Hybrid PC that comes with a Blu-Ray Disc Drive probably uses CyberLink PowerDVD (http://www.cyberlink.com) or Corel WinDVD 9 Plus Blu-ray (http://www.corel.com) software for playback (however both of those only features GPU hardware acceleration on NVIDIA and ATI graphics controllers, not Intel which DELL Studio Hybrid PC seem to come with).

I have a studio hybrid and it's plays bluray discs with "Dell MediaDirect." No playback issues. Uses 30-40% of one core for 1080p playback

[Geeba]

Still looking for the perfect xbox1/xbmc replacement.

Yup me too!

I have a studio hybrid and it's plays bluray discs with "Dell MediaDirect." No playback issues. Uses 30-40% of one core for 1080p playback

Have you tried booting via XBMC Live and tried any full HD playback?

[Jeroen]

I have tried XBMC Live and I didn't get it working, but I believe that's because the GPU in the Hybrid is not supported by XBMC Live yet.
I don't play a lot of Full HD content, mostly 720p and below but I have tried a couple of Full HD movies and it really didn't give any trouble. I took the fastest CPU available though. I have had the Hybrid for a couple of months now and I'm really pleased with it.

[greenteagod]

Still looking for the perfect xbox1/xbmc replacement.

Yup me too!

I have a studio hybrid and it's plays bluray discs with "Dell MediaDirect." No playback issues. Uses 30-40% of one core for 1080p playback

Have you tried booting via XBMC Live and tried any full HD playback?

No I haven't. I didn't figure XBMC Live would be able to support the wireless xbox 360 controller, sound through the hdmi or various other things, so I haven't even bothered with it yet.

[jonnypajamas]

Just wanted to say that I got my Studio Hybrid 2 weeks ago, 2.1ghz 3gb ram and Atlantis flys on it. I get 1080p to my sharp lcd and watching bluray is amaaaaazing. No glitches yet. Ripped bluray is fine too. I was nervous about getting it after reading some reviews about it's hardware limitations but I haven't noticed anything. I would recommend it to anyone looking for a small power friendly htpc.

[vskatusa]

Maybe the best bet is to buy a laptop which will double up as pc + xbmc (hooked to tv via hdmi) !

[vskatusa]

jonnypajamas,

How have u connected the hybrid to the TV? If it was thru HDMI, can you confirm if the HDMI outputs both PASS-THRU 5.1 (Not just stereo) + VIDEO - Because this was one of the issues when I talked to DELL sometime back (2 months back) and they confirmed that the HDMI when connected to a receiver will output ONLY STEREO sound not digital 5.1 sound passthru! This is a bummer because the very idea of HDMI is to eliminate all the cables! Sony seems to have the best implementation over HDMI in their AW and FW series laptops.

Can you please list the configuration of your dell hybrid?

[jonnypajamas]

T8100 2100mhz
3 gigs of ram
Bluray Player
intel 965 video
vista ultimate sp1
latest eventghost
latest xbmc
hdmi into a sharp 42 inch 1080p lcd
thx 2.1 through studio headphone out
3.5 windows experience score
wifi audio/video stream from a WHS box in the basement

Sorry I have no way of testing that sound scenario for you.w

[Fyreheart]

I've had a dell Hybrid for the last couple of months. I got it specifically to hook up to my 1080p plasma.

I've played about with other media players all giving different results. But I ended up with 2 or 3 different players for each type of media I wanted to play. Being a xbmc user with my Xbox many years ago I thought I would install it and give it a whirl.

Sad to say mine doesn't work anywhere near as perfectly as jonnypajamas's setup appears to. I can play 720p fine...and 1080p plays...but with some major annoying tearing. It's so annoying I'm actually thinking about scrapping it as a media player and building something from scratch.

Specs as follows...T8100 2100mhz, 4gb ram.

So sad to say I wouldn't recommend a hybrid for 1080p at all.

[Dannydeman]

@Fire..
Well, you might want to try the build from Jester which is especially for Intel people who have tearing. I also notice annoying tearing on 1080P with a intel onboard graphcis card, other mediacenters played the 1080P content just fine. Many people says the patched version is working, I still need to try it though.

[Jeroen]

I experienced tearing before too, but not only with 1080p, even with SD material. That was with 8.10 final. I compile my own builds regularly and the problem just went away basically, not sure from what build on. So yeah you might want to try a newer custom build.
I mostly play 720p or lower but the 1080p material I have played really didn't give me any trouble. I also have the T8100.
I'm running XP on it though.

[jonnypajamas]

I haven't experienced any tearing yet, have you raised your video cache as high as it will go? do you have a 5400 or 7200 rpm hd? what type of hdmi are you going into what sized plasma? are you in native resolution for the screen? etc.

[BassKozz]

I am planning on purchasing a few of these Studio Hybrids so I can setup a MythTV config for a friend of mine, and I've been researching the heck out of this thing because I've heard that it can/&/cannot play HD 1080p video...

After reading this whole thread, it seems to me the solution is to purchase the Hybrid with the "BluRay" player (even thou Bluray playback isn't supported in Linux) so that you get the added "Hardware/Media Accelerator".
Am I correct with that assumption?

I wish Dell would make a version of the Studio Hybrid with a Nvidia graphics card that could take advantage of the new VDPAU drivers (http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=13102), the benchmarks (http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=13109) look SWEET.

[smartins]

One thing that is holding me from buying a Hybrid is that it doesn't come with a built-in infrared sensor. The idea of having a USB infrared device sticking out of the unit is a huge letdown to me. Otherwise this would be the best hardware to run XBMC on.

[Dannydeman]

If you want to play 1080P, never go for the X3100.
It will drive you nuts, since much 1080P movies will be choppy (sometimes).
You won't find your mediacenter with a X3100, and you will change endless till you relise it's a crap videochip.

It works the best in Vista Mediacenter, works in XBMC as well but you'll have tearing. Mediaportal will also work, but only with CoreAVC. It's just on the edge, and you will be annoyed with it.

Thats why I get my Dell Studio 15 today with the Ati Mobility HD 3450 ;)
Hopefully I'll get a nice XBMC experience without any tearing.

[shinnlly]

Hey Dannydeman, can you share a link to the Dell you ordered?

Please give us a review once you have tested it out.

[jcraven]

XBMC is great but unfortunately the Hybrid is not. It's blu-ray playback is limited, even when just playing disks it stutters. When you try to stream blu-ray it's unwatchable. I paid over $900 for mine with 4gb and the best processor with the built in blu-ray drive.

[johnny2]

XBMC is great but unfortunately the Hybrid is not. It's blu-ray playback is limited, even when just playing disks it stutters. When you try to stream blu-ray it's unwatchable. I paid over $900 for mine with 4gb and the best processor with the built in blu-ray drive.

You need to use the Broadcom mini PCI card included with the blu ray option. If you are getting stuttering, you are not utilizing it.

[Dougie Fresh]

For about the same price with better (much) specs you can get the Dell Studio Slim. It can be turned on its side to look have the same profile as another piece of equipment in your AV rack.

http://www.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/dell_studio_slim_desktop_1.jpg

The best place to find these is on the Dell Outlet site. You can get a refurb with 4GB RAM, 640GB 7200rpm HDD, Pentium Core2Duo 2.53GHz, Blu-ray and ATI Radeon HD 3450 for $559. If you'd looked in January they also had a 20% off coupon so maybe they'll have one again sometime. I think this is the direction I am going to go. I have a lot of great luck with Dell Outlet.

NAYY.

[frumpy_uk]

I've got one of these Studio Slims. Be warned that the fans and the PSU can be very noisy. I've had to replace the case fan, CPU fan, and the PSU. Also bear in mind that the small form factor means that the expansion slots are all low profile. Finally, my experience was that although you can place the box on it's side, you still need plenty of space above it otherwise it will run hot.

Just my 2 pence worth...

[rony1434]

Hi all.
Guys please help me out.
I am thinking of buying a new notebook having elegant skin soon, So could anyone here please suggest me some websites providing good notebook skins?

Dell mini notebook skins (http://www.decalskin.com/)