Best XBMC HTPC Hardware with HDMI / HD / 1080p + HDMI Audio

[crashnburn]

I posted the below quoted post somewhere because I was considering the Mac Mini for the above purpose. But then again, I am wondering if that is the BEST alternative to go for?

I know so far XBMC is majorly based on XBox and is SD. The QUESTION is ...

What would be the best hardware + software / OS platform for an XBMC HTPC (On Linux or Windows) that has the following features:
- Fast & easy boot to XBMC (So my old parents can use it and not have to deal with a Computer interface)
- Supports HDMI Out (Even if I dont have any HD content yet, I'd like to future proof this hardware if possible when HD content + XBMC HD capabilities are up to par)
- Can stream content (outlined below: DVD ISOs, FLAC, MP3, DivX, AVI etc) from a Gigabit Switch & NAS

I am looking for an HTPC Box that is:
- Ready i.e. A small footprint box like AOpenPC (I hope I got the name right) on which I could install XBMC (on Linux or Windows - dont care as long as the better, stable, faster one can be installed)
- Motherboard & Small Case that you can suggest that would do this
- Streams the media from a NAS
- Remote Control thats easy to use for Parents - Do not have to worry about underlying OS.

I am also looking to buy a NAS (QNAP or Synology) with SATA + RAID or building something that resembles it.

NOW - I "CURRENTLY" prefer to keep them separate since I want the NAS setup in this old closet where all the CAT6 cables go to at a level below the Living Room.

BUT - I might combine them if I cant find a cheap HTPC box that does the above XBMC work for me.

Network Media Streamer from a NAS: DVD ISOs, FLAC, MP3, DivX, AVI, MPG etc

I am considering using Mac Mini with XBMC to stream from a NAS the above formats.

Would it do a DVD ISOs, (SD & HD Content from HD / Blu Ray).

I have used Macs in the past but have no major interest in it besides using it for Media Streaming from a NAS with XMBC.

Would this work well?

Does the remote provide good enough navigation for the XBMC?


PLEASE ADVISE. Thanks.

[crashnburn]

I was considering buying an NMT device like a Popcorn Hour but XBMC caught my eye and I am wondering if I could have an HDMI XBMC (instead of PCH) right away even if I dont have HD Content on me at the moment.

[crashnburn]

Crap. I cant edit the Posts.

Prefer something that is small like & looks like a Mac Mini or a DVD Players / HT Receiver.

Also, if its not a complete Box / Case with Motherboard do suggest that. Thanks.

[icekiller]

motherboard:
Asus P5N-EM HDMI nForce® 630i, 2xPCI, 1xPCIe x1, 1xPCIe x16, 3xDDR2, Sound, Gbit LAN, VGA shared, S-ATA II RAID, HDMI
OR
Asus P5E-VM HDMI Intel® G35, 1xPCI, 2xPCIe x1, 1xPCIe x16, 4xDDR2, Gbit LAN, VGA shared, S-ATA II RAID, FW, HDMI


CPU
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Sockel 775, FSB 1333, Wolfdale, 64bit, Dual Core, box
OR
Core 2 Duo E8400 Sockel 775, FSB 1333, Wolfdale, 64bit, Dual Core +BTF95 Sockel 754/939/940/AM2/775, <150W, passiv

CASE
AeroCool M40 o. Netzteil, Micro ATX, Display, 120mm cooler, schwarz
OR
NZXT Rogue Dark Blue o. Netzteil, Micro ATX, oberes Sichtfenster, 120mm LED Lüfter, schwarz

MEMORY
ADJVE1B16K2 4GB DDR2 800, PC2-6400, CL5-5-5-18, 1.8-1.9V, 2x2GB
OR
KHX6400D2K2/2G 2GB DDR2 800, PC2-6400, CL5-5-5-15, 2.0V, HyperX, 2x1GB

exactly anything above 521 is good.. but memory is pretty cheap right now..


harddrive
USB STICK 8GB
or SSD hd.. depens on your cashflow..
normal SATA hd would do to..


as storage i have 2x1tera in a USB case of ICYBOX..

[t029248]

Crap. I cant edit the Posts.


That's the most requested thing on this forum "edit back"

I prefer a small device and easy to setup remote so I'm looking at Mac Mini's. They are currently sold out the new models must be announced soon. ???

For a PC i would like the HFX case (http://www.mcubed-store.com/catalog/images/products/hfx/frontb-c.jpg) with a new C2Duo. Only the crapy support for IR is holding me back, i have no idea what to buy to get easy remote control, Without HOURS configuring.. :stare:

[icekiller]

@t029248, windows media remote..

[t029248]

@t029248, windows media remote..

Plug and Play? ???

[icekiller]

@t029248,
its pretty plug and play.. and seeing as its microsoft standard stuff there most be hundred of people using it.. so there most be configs flying around.. but like i said.. i'll see which remotes i can afford buy it test it and then post the configs accordingly

[t029248]

What about the Harmony remotes are they working yet. Btw where are to Config's posted, then i can look around for a combination of devices i'd like to use?

[icekiller]

my brother has that one.. i'll try to get my hands on it..

[crashnburn]

MODERATOR: Why was this moved to the Linux Forum? I was open to Windows as well as Linux or OSX / OSX86 for this version of XBMC.

This was to be OS independent.

PS: Guys - How does this Shuttle Machine look?

http://us.shuttle.com/barebone/Models/SD02XD.html

[icekiller]

probably because we don't acknowledge osx86 ;) aka you need to buy a mac mini for osxbmc.

yip that should work :)

[pantherman007]

Enclosure-wise you might check out the Omaura TF5 or TF8. The TF8 is available via Dell Accessories (although they've supposed had supply chain delays). The TF5 is the smallest and what I'm hoping will hit the US soon. So far this is what (to me) looks like it has the best chance of giving a Mac Mini a run for the money looks and size wise.

[BLKMGK]

Probably moved to the Linux forum because we've discussed this kind of thing to death. Remotes? BTDT - MS MCE remote, I use a Harmony remote with the MSFT receiver. MB and case are the hardest part. Frankly, just get a socket 775 Shuttle XPC, slap a fanless 8x series NVIDIA card in it, and add an E8400. Discussed a few times already here...

[Gaarv]

What about the Harmony remotes are they working yet. Btw where are to Config's posted, then i can look around for a combination of devices i'd like to use?

Yes, they work. I have a 555, sending IR to a Antec fusion black case. Some work is needed to make it work tho (mainly lirc config).

[icekiller]

@Gaarv could you please post your config?

i'm actually working for a site for this kind of this... aka post your xbmc post, stuff..

[jkrellner]

motherboard:
Asus P5N-EM HDMI nForce® 630i, 2xPCI, 1xPCIe x1, 1xPCIe x16, 3xDDR2, Sound, Gbit LAN, VGA shared, S-ATA II RAID, HDMI
OR
Asus P5E-VM HDMI Intel® G35, 1xPCI, 2xPCIe x1, 1xPCIe x16, 4xDDR2, Gbit LAN, VGA shared, S-ATA II RAID, FW, HDMI

Icekiller, both of the mobos you referenced lack S/PDIF. Has anyone found a good mobo with onboard S/PDIF and onboard Nvidia video?

[Narogh]

Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H (http://www.gigabyte.eu/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=2691&ProductName=GA-73PVM-S2H),nForce-630i+GF7100 ,m-ATX, Socket-775, DDR2, HDMI, PCI-Ex16

[icekiller]

@jkrellner, de P5N-EM has a spdif expansion card.. i have that one right here.. using it right now with SPDIF...

[jkrellner]

@jkrellner, de P5N-EM has a spdif expansion card.. i have that one right here.. using it right now with SPDIF...

No onboard S/PDIF -- see the specs at NewEgg.com (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131229&Tpk=P5N-EM).

You said you have an expansion card, but I want it onboard. If it does have it and these pictures are wrong, I would get it in a heartbeat, because the price is right and with nVidia video onboard, it is perfect for XBMC.

[icekiller]

http://www.supercalculatoare.com/images/goods_pictures/spdif-out.jpg

thats the spdif out for that motherboard...

[jkrellner]

Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H (http://www.gigabyte.eu/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=2691&ProductName=GA-73PVM-S2H),nForce-630i+GF7100 ,m-ATX, Socket-775, DDR2, HDMI, PCI-Ex16

The Mobo quoted above has some really nasty reviews at Newegg.com. After some research, I found this one: ABIT I-N73HD LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 7100 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127037) that looks pretty good. Pretty much the same specs and comparable price.

[icekiller]

@jkrellner, that motherboard doesn't have a spdif out either?


ah now i see it

[jkrellner]

@jkrellner, that motherboard doesn't have a spdif out either?

Yes it does, look right to the left of the HDMI port. It has one optical port.

[Snixten]

The Mobo quoted above has some really nasty reviews at Newegg.com. After some research, I found this one: ABIT I-N73HD LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 7100 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127037) that looks pretty good. Pretty much the same specs and comparable price.

Could anyone tell me what the audio chipset is on this card and/or if it works well with s/pdif passthrough in ubuntu?

Seems like a good mobo candidate of a xbmc computer otherwise.

[icekiller]

Gigabyte GA-G33M-S2H also seems pretty good,
1. Supports Intel® Core™ 2 multi-core and 45nm processors
2. Solid capacitors design in CPU VRM
3. Dual Channel DDR2 800 for outstanding system performance
4. Integrated Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3100 (Intel GMA 3100)
5. Integrated SATA 3Gb/s interface
6. Features high speed Gigabit Ethernet and IEEE1394
7. Integrated ALC889A 8-Channel High Definition audio with DTS support
8. Features full rate lossless Blu-ray/ HD DVD audio
9. Integrated HDMI interface for high Definition video (1080) playback with HDCP support

onboard SDPIF

[gzusrawx]

I'd stay away from the 7100's and go to the 7150's
the 7100's may not be enough of a card to support 1080p
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188021

I've built 3 systems so far with this Board and I highly recommend it.

[xgrep]

What about the Harmony remotes are they working yet. Btw where are to Config's posted, then i can look around for a combination of devices i'd like to use?

Harmony remote will work with anything with a little bit of config, since it can send pretty much any signal. More depends on the receiver, I have mine setup with a hauppage 350 I had lying around.

[xgrep]

I'd stay away from the 7100's and go to the 7150's
the 7100's may not be enough of a card to support 1080p
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188021

I've built 3 systems so far with this Board and I highly recommend it.

I can vouch for the 7150 as well. I have an Abit ANM2-HD and it plays pretty much everything I throw at it. Only thing it chugs on is an 18g x264 transformers movie at 1080p, and only at certain spots. Seems like everytime I update xbmc more and more of these spots disappear. I'm fairly confident that this card will eventually play it. Worst case I still have the option of throwing in another card to handle it.

[jkrellner]

I thought CPU was the driving factor in the ability to play 1080p, and that GPU was not all that important? If that is not the case, then I think I will go with a board without onboard video and instead get a standalone 8600 or something like that, just to be safe. Money is not exactly no object, but if a few extra $$$ will ensure that the machine can play everything up to and including the killa sampla, so be it.

The EVGA board has gotten terrible reviews on newegg, and I generally trust in those reviews (if there are enough of them). gzusrawx, have you been able to get 1080p content with digital surround using that board?

With respect to the Gigabyte board, I thought that IBM video was not ideal? I want to use a touchscreen in a dual monitor setup, so I think it would be best if I stuck with nVidia, no? I also read somewhere in this forum that the GMA 3100 is not OpenGL 2.0 and therefore probably not great for XBMC (problems with Xorg, I think -- although I am just paraphrasing what I recall reading elsewhere and probably getting it wrong).

The problem I have been experiencing is finding good, solid micro-ATX boards with onboard S/PDIF optical and/or coaxial outputs. Does anyone have any experience with the HT OMEGA STRIKER 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271001)??? Perhaps a little pricey, but has great feedback, including two users who have it installed on a Linux system and say it works great.

That sound card, together with an 8600 and an E8400, should be able to rock the killa sampla and thus, virtually everything out there.

[ShortySco]

I'm in the process of building an HTPC using an Abit I-n73HD, not tested optical out or hdmi yet, that comes tomorrow.

I've got XBMC (LiveUSB) running great on a monitor with analog sound, i didn't even have to setup anything :grin:

I'll let you know how i get on. (7100 chipset, spdif out, hdmi @ 720p & 1080p)

Shorty

[jkrellner]

I look forward to the report, Shorty. What processor are you using? Also, do you have the killa sample? I'd be very grateful if you could try running that. If you do not have it, or don't know about it, I'll track it down again (it is somewhere on these forums) and let you know where to find it.

[Razor_109]

I'm in the process of building an HTPC using an Abit I-n73HD, not tested optical out or hdmi yet, that comes tomorrow.

I've got XBMC (LiveUSB) running great on a monitor with analog sound, i didn't even have to setup anything :grin:

I'll let you know how i get on. (7100 chipset, spdif out, hdmi @ 720p & 1080p)

Shorty

I have that setup running already with an E8400 as CPU.

It drops frames on the KillaSample and the Audio stutters a bit. So i think the 7100 is not able to handle the KillaSample.

I might upgrade to a 8500GT passive or some, but for now it's only the 1080p Planet Earth Rips it wont play smooth.. and i found 1 or 2 other 1080p movies it has trouble with.

[ShortySco]

@ Jkrellner: The CPU is and E8200 and the ram is 2 x 1GB, some silent fans in a uATX case with a usb pen drive... that's it... so far.

I don't have the killa sample, but should be able to track it down eaisly enough, that's the one with the birds right?

@Razor_109: That's interesting, i'd hoped this would be powerfull enough, i hear the core 2 series overclock well and run cool, great for silent running... i'll see if a little overclocking can get this working, i gather that overall processing power is what makes the difference.

Shorty

[succo]

i've got evga 7150-630i and both audio and video stutters in killa sample with an E4700@3Ghz with 2 x 1Gb 667 ram, but that's all the stuttering i had for now, i played other 1080p videos well with it :)

[jkrellner]

@ Jkrellner: The CPU is and E8200 and the ram is 2 x 1GB, some silent fans in a uATX case with a usb pen drive... that's it... so far.

What case do you have? I am just curious... And let us know if you have any issues finding the sample. Another one my 2.8 Ghz couldn't play flawlessly (even overclocked to 2.9 Ghz, which is the max I could do since the board on my old computer is an Intel) is the I am Legend 1080p trailer from Apple. It starts to stutter about halfway through (at the scene where all the people are bottlenecked at the checkpoint).

I have that setup running already with an E8400 as CPU.

It drops frames on the KillaSample and the Audio stutters a bit. So i think the 7100 is not able to handle the KillaSample.

I might upgrade to a 8500GT passive or some, but for now it's only the 1080p Planet Earth Rips it wont play smooth.. and i found 1 or 2 other 1080p movies it has trouble with.

Damn. This is proving more challenging than I had originally thought. Back to the drawing board, I guess...

[icekiller]

@jkrellner, that spdif bracket is really no option? i mean the header is on the motherboard it just needs to be connected...

[BLKMGK]

@jkrellner, that spdif bracket is really no option? i mean the header is on the motherboard it just needs to be connected...

I've got one of the ASUS SPID/F header cards. Had to get it off of eBay of all places but it hooked up no problem. Had to remove the bracket to fit my case, oh well. Dirt cheap too.

[jkrellner]

Glad to hear a separate S/PDIF will work no problem -- I had assumed that but someone said it could present software problems (although I am not sure what those problems could be).

[icekiller]

pull crap its just like its onboard only its needs a pci slot.. its sort of the extra usb slots you have on your motherboard.

[amdmannen]

Look at my sig below, Gigabyte with Intel 3100, OpenGL 1.5.
Plays Killa Sample without hickup or audio stuttering :)
Plays all my *.mkv files that my former AMD system didn´t without audio/visual stuttering on some content.

[BLKMGK]

Actually mine not a PCI card, it's a board made for the ASUS boards as I recall. Plugs into a header on the board. I'll try to find it, funny thing is a Google search already brings up my previous post! :-O

[jkrellner]

I have decided to go with an ATX board instead of micro-ATX, since space is not an issue for me (case will be hidden in a component cabinet). So, I'll be going with the GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3L with a E8400 and a GeForce 9600 GT. That should be able to handle anything I throw at it. Works out to about $150 more, but at least it know I will be able to do anything I want.

[ShortySco]

My experience with Abit I-N73HD so far...... (With E8200 and 2x1GB)

Setting up was a breeze, all hardware seems to be supported nativley, yay!

Audio
Optical passthrough works, although at first only AC3 movies were coming through, but after looking at audio hardware settings i changed the default audio device to match the pass through one (iec956 or something)
Now i get mp3's and mp3 movies too, i'm still not getting UI sounds through optical, is this hard coded or is it just me being thick?
Playing the killa sample it looks ok, but pressing "i" on the keyboard it tells me it looses between 40 and 120 frames. Everything else plays fine.

Video
Everything just works as expected and looks perfect quality wise, except one problem.
All i can output so far is 720p or 1080i, at first i thought this was user error, but some searching leads me to think that maybe this board cant do 1080p by design, can anyone clarify? (My 720p projector accepts a 1080p input)


Network
Again, supported by default and just works, although if you plan to use LiveUSB Xbmc, check my post in that thread.

So other than the 1080p thing i'm fully happy with everything (ie. not so happy:laugh: )

Shorty

[icekiller]

My experience with Abit I-N73HD so far...... (With E8200 and 2x1GB)

Setting up was a breeze, all hardware seems to be supported nativley, yay!

Audio
Optical passthrough works, although at first only AC3 movies were coming through, but after looking at audio hardware settings i changed the default audio device to match the pass through one (iec956 or something)
Now i get mp3's and mp3 movies too, i'm still not getting UI sounds through optical, is this hard coded or is it just me being thick?
Playing the killa sample it looks ok, but pressing "i" on the keyboard it tells me it looses between 40 and 120 frames. Everything else plays fine.

Video
Everything just works as expected and looks perfect quality wise, except one problem.
All i can output so far is 720p or 1080i, at first i thought this was user error, but some searching leads me to think that maybe this board cant do 1080p by design, can anyone clarify? (My 720p projector accepts a 1080p input)


Network
Again, supported by default and just works, although if you plan to use LiveUSB Xbmc, check my post in that thread.

So other than the 1080p thing i'm fully happy with everything (ie. not so happy:laugh: )

Shorty

this post is useless without pics! ;) soo... pics! btw i have the same prob with the liveusb @ my motherboard.. ;)

[t029248]

My experience with Abit I-N73HD so far...... (With E8200 and 2x1GB)

Setting up was a breeze, all hardware seems to be supported nativley, yay!

Audio
Optical passthrough works, although at first only AC3 movies were coming through, but after looking at audio hardware settings i changed the default audio device to match the pass through one (iec956 or something)
Now i get mp3's and mp3 movies too, i'm still not getting UI sounds through optical, is this hard coded or is it just me being thick?
Playing the killa sample it looks ok, but pressing "i" on the keyboard it tells me it looses between 40 and 120 frames. Everything else plays fine.

Video
Everything just works as expected and looks perfect quality wise, except one problem.
All i can output so far is 720p or 1080i, at first i thought this was user error, but some searching leads me to think that maybe this board cant do 1080p by design, can anyone clarify? (My 720p projector accepts a 1080p input)


Network
Again, supported by default and just works, although if you plan to use LiveUSB Xbmc, check my post in that thread.

So other than the 1080p thing i'm fully happy with everything (ie. not so happy:laugh: )

Shorty

How did you setup the remote?

[BLKMGK]

Which remote? Took me minutes on my setup...

[ShortySco]

LOL, yeah, which remote? I don't have one. :laugh:

But FWIW i was planning to get a Gyration media center suite (http://www.gyration.co.uk/products.php)

It should be great as it's a WiiMote style mouse and media center remote in one working on 2.4ghz and IR, i've read it works great out of the xbox in XBMC as mouse/keyboard, some tinkering gets the buttons working too. And as an alternate option there's always LIRC, since it's IR too.

Shorty

[BLKMGK]

Check my sig, ZipZoomFly sells them cheap cheap - as I've posted a few dozen times. It's pretty much PnP too - as I've posted many times.

[IrishTR]

I was new to the scene and I wanted something to upgrade from my stock original Xbox that has been my XBMC for years now, and she's finally showing her age. I just put together this lil rig and its running circles at everything I throw at it. Here is the specs. I might note that the thing you want to steer clear of the most... ONBOARD audio, they are horrible in any situation and suck cpu cycles! Anyways the other thing I wanted was LOW cost... And I came in under 250 bucks for the whole rig.

All items purchased at newegg. Here is a print of my invoice. You search the part #s

11-108-058 HTPC CASE IN-WIN|IW-BT566T.300BL RT 1 $59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108058

13-135-066R MB ECS GF7100PVT-M 775 7100/630I RT 1 $35.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135066R

80-125-001 DIGI REMOTE EDATA TECH DEC-200B R 1 $29.99
COM DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #106604 1 ($10.00) ($10.00)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880125001

29-102-002R SDCARD CREATIVE|SB0570 AUDIGY SE RT 1 $25.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102002R

20-231-121 MEM 2G|GSK F2-6400CL5S-2GBPQ R 1 $42.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231121

19-116-039 CPU INTEL|C430 1.8G 775 512K R 1 $39.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116039

I had to purchase 2 things from Creative's Website for this to be complete. 1) was the low profile bracket for the soundcard to work with this case.
http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=697&subcategory=698&product=16916

2) was the SPDIF adapter plug which made a great extention to the 3ft cable I already had so that was bonus.
http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?product=1780&dcs.acsF_P=Audigy%20SE&dcs.acsF_A=Sound%20Blaster%20Digital%20I/O%20Module&dcs.acsF_X=Product%20Img

Got the rig running Ubuntu 8.04 and latest XBMC and its running everything perfectly fine. Make sure you go into the bios and assign it 256MB ram to the video (stock is 128MB). Lastly the biggest thing I liked with this setup. Its ultra quiet, runs stock at 29degrees C, and LOW power consumption. If you go with a dualcore/bigger processor (which this setup is capable of) will generate more heat and suck more juice thats not needed imo!

[IrishTR]

Also I must mention the whole setup from build to running XBMC with remote took under 1hr complete installation fully patched and updated. Hell Ive seen XP installs take longer than that let alone downloading the million updates from MS!

[lingenfr_xbmc]

This thread would really lend itself to table with configurations and results.

[BLKMGK]

This thread would really lend itself to table with configurations and results.

Well... go for it! :p You could even ask for Wiki access to put it there. Do know though that what's "best" has been a little bit of a moving target. The code has slowly improved and thus so has performance. Early on multi-cores didn't matter, now we can do multi-core decoding and it rocks. Still some debate I think on just how much the vid card helps and I think there's only been one person that has done any back to back testing and I'm not sure the results were conclusive. I have my opinion on what's "best" (hint: I'd do it differently than I did!) and others likely have differing opinions too.

[ltmon]

hint: I'd do it differently than I did!

As someone deciding on hardware for a HTPC right now, what would you do differently?

I'm thinking I'll wait for the G45 based motherboards to start appearing on the market (e.g. http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/dg45id/dg45id-overview.htm), although I'm not quite sure if doing this is a waste of time or not. On paper they look to have enough power and features to be a nice hi def setup, and driver support for Linux is usually pretty good from Intel. If the IGP doesn't work out, the board should be just as good with a discrete card from nvidia or ati.

[olympia]

IrishTR:

Is this setup able to play KillaSample without hickup or any audio stuttering?

[IrishTR]

IrishTR:

Is this setup able to play KillaSample without hickup or any audio stuttering?

It does stutter, but Im not so sure that, the KillaSample is a great measuring tool imo. Its encoding job is horrible at best. I mean its pure raw format and at about 100MB for approximately 5-10secs of video is terrible.

Granted I am an avid fan of divx/xvid due to their wide array of compression and still fairly HQ video/audio output. That plus the fact a complete movie will come down well below 1GB. And my NAS device houses approximately 2TB of data every bit counts, as I keep all my favorite shows, movies, music, etc on there.

Whats funny is my Linux box which as you saw the specs nothing to extremely brag about in a spec war. But does the job I am expecting it to. Now here is the kicker. My gaming rig that has dual SLI, quad core CPU and 4GB ram although running windows and VLC Player to run that KillaSample.... CHOKED completely, and Ive had no problems in the past on that playing mkvs in the 10-20GBs of ripped BluRay movies. So imo something isnt right with that sample that my better machine choked and the wimpy xbmc machine could at least play and somewhat stutter through it.

I dunno not here to offend just offering up what Ive experienced, so please dont take my remarks personal towards that clip. But Ive been ripping/encoding/downloading plenty of videos long before XBMC or linux came my way.

[jkrellner]

As someone deciding on hardware for a HTPC right now, what would you do differently?

I'm thinking I'll wait for the G45 based motherboards to start appearing on the market (e.g. http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/dg45id/dg45id-overview.htm), although I'm not quite sure if doing this is a waste of time or not. On paper they look to have enough power and features to be a nice hi def setup, and driver support for Linux is usually pretty good from Intel. If the IGP doesn't work out, the board should be just as good with a discrete card from nvidia or ati.

Others may have different thoughts, but Intel mobos tend to restrict overclocking. This may have gotten better, but my Intel mobo will only allow me to overclock my 2.6 Ghz processor to 2.7.

[ltmon]

Others may have different thoughts, but Intel mobos tend to restrict overclocking. This may have gotten better, but my Intel mobo will only allow me to overclock my 2.6 Ghz processor to 2.7.

Overclocking is probably not a concern, given that this will be a dedicated HTPC, and living under my TV.

In any case, I was more talking about the G45 chipset, which Abit, Asus, MSI etc. etc. will all be releasing motherboards based upon.

They are all delayed due to problems with the graphics processor (X4500). My suppliers are currently listing the Intel version as the first to be released, and likely to appear early September.

[BLKMGK]

I wouldn't do Intel and I wouldn't go crazy trying to get onboard Intel graphics working. I'd buy a Shuttle XPC, one of the ones with room for a good video card - mounts it on opposite of normal side, slap an E8400 in it, and a passive cooled 8500 or 8600GT video card. That CPU will clock to 3.8Ghz or better if needed. It won't need to go past 3Ghz I think. I play the bird scene fine on my machine with a lesser CPU. As for playing it in Windows - does it use both cores? Am betting not... My E8400 Vista box isn't much better at playing it. <shrug>

[cejstrup]

I have an old E6600 and a Nvidia GeForce 7100 card and I have absolutely no problems decoding 1080p at all. CPU is not loaded much

[Icey]

I've been keeping my eyes open for a new/upcoming motherboards that could be suitable for XBMC. Knowing that in general ATi/AMD graphics dont play nice with Linux, I put aside the currently popular 780G chipset and focused on Intel & nVidia. Intel G45 is still on the horizon and looks like it will turn up around September which of course leaves the current nVidia option as 8200.

However, we are just starting to see the arrival of nVidia 8300 based boards and the Asus M3N78-EM (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=2319&l1=3&l2=149&l3=676&l4=0) is the first one that seems to tick all the boxes. I guess it should be available later this month.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

[boba23]

I've been keeping my eyes open for a new/upcoming motherboards that could be suitable for XBMC. Knowing that in general ATi/AMD graphics dont play nice with Linux, I put aside the currently popular 780G chipset and focused on Intel & nVidia. Intel G45 is still on the horizon and looks like it will turn up around September which of course leaves the current nVidia option as 8200.

However, we are just starting to see the arrival of nVidia 8300 based boards and the Asus M3N78-EM (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=2319&l1=3&l2=149&l3=676&l4=0) is the first one that seems to tick all the boxes. I guess it should be available later this month.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

Can't confirm any ATI/AMD Problems with Ubuntu 8.04 at least.
Though I got my PCI Nvidia 8500GT running right now, that was cause I wanted Component out first before I got my new Plasma with HDMI, the onboard ATI 1200 on my 780G board works flawlessly with the ATI driver provided by Ubuntu. I'll report more, as soon as I got my HTPC box done. Few more things to do like fan control, digital sound etc.

boba

[Haohmaru]

I've been keeping my eyes open for a new/upcoming motherboards that could be suitable for XBMC. Knowing that in general ATi/AMD graphics dont play nice with Linux, I put aside the currently popular 780G chipset and focused on Intel & nVidia. Intel G45 is still on the horizon and looks like it will turn up around September which of course leaves the current nVidia option as 8200.

However, we are just starting to see the arrival of nVidia 8300 based boards and the Asus M3N78-EM (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=2319&l1=3&l2=149&l3=676&l4=0) is the first one that seems to tick all the boxes. I guess it should be available later this month.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?


If you want Intel + Nvidia 8200 you will have to wait because there aren't any MOBOs yet with the 8200 for Intel CPUs. Only for AMD.

[loosec]

I'm in a rather slow process of building a HTPC with some extra network gateway and server functionality. The demand for double gigabit ethernet ports, small system size, hdmi, appropriate processing power and low power consumption led me to the Jetway J9F2 motherboard.
mini-itx.com (http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=32#j9f2)
Jetway Mini-Itx (http://www.jetway-mini-itx.com/j9f2-power-mini-itx-motherboards.html)
Jetway (http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/Intel.html)
linitx.com (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=11701)
I'm not sure it will play 1080p material under linux althou I really hope it will and it might need a better soundcard with some nicer ports. Still probably a decent solution for xbmc if you want to keep the case as small as possible and still get some kind of punch from it.

[Icey]

If you want Intel + Nvidia 8200 you will have to wait because there aren't any MOBOs yet with the 8200 for Intel CPUs. Only for AMD.

Thats okay... I actually prefer to use AMD since they have lower power CPUs - something like the 4850e should be sufficient.

As for the chipset I really didn't want to use the 8200 since I keep reading issues. That being said the 8300 may also have it's own issues.... but at least its a faster graphics core.

[Haohmaru]

The new Shuttle looks like a good candidate to me for XBMC. Onboard NVIDIA GeForce 8200 + AMD AM2+ support. Plus it has evetything you need for a HTPC.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101073&Tpk=SN78SH7

I wish someone could review it. I wonder how noisy it is.

[BLKMGK]

I have an old E6600 and a Nvidia GeForce 7100 card and I have absolutely no problems decoding 1080p at all. CPU is not loaded much

With what CPU? Others running same hardware as me save video card have reported issues with The Bird clip and others. the video card seems to make a slight difference and in any case the card I bought was CHEAP. Bitrate makes a big difference, one clip vs another. Right now I wouldn't go AMD for the CPU either - the 45nm C2D are STOMPING the AMD offerings and at reasonable prices.

I have a Shuttle XPC with a quad core in it. Because it's clocked to the Moon and overvolted it gets pretty warm when transcoding and the fans are set to run on high - that's loud! Run something like an E8400 though and you will be much much cooler and ought to be able to get away with much lower fan speeds that will be quiet.

[cejstrup]

With what CPU? Others running same hardware as me save video card have reported issues with The Bird clip and others. the video card seems to make a slight difference and in any case the card I bought was CHEAP. Bitrate makes a big difference, one clip vs another. Right now I wouldn't go AMD for the CPU either - the 45nm C2D are STOMPING the AMD offerings and at reasonable prices.

I have a Shuttle XPC with a quad core in it. Because it's clocked to the Moon and overvolted it gets pretty warm when transcoding and the fans are set to run on high - that's loud! Run something like an E8400 though and you will be much much cooler and ought to be able to get away with much lower fan speeds that will be quiet.

As I said. The CPU is an E6600. Intel Core 2 Duo. :;):

I've tried to play the bird clip and there's no noticable problems playing it.

[ShortySco]

I've tried to play the bird clip and there's no noticable problems playing it.

Did you try pressing "i" on the keyboard and watch the "dropped frames" variable?

Shorty

[Haohmaru]

Right now I wouldn't go AMD for the CPU either - the 45nm C2D are STOMPING the AMD offerings and at reasonable prices.

Stomping is a bit hard I think. :eek:

The new 65W Brisbane Core 5600+ 2.9Ghz for 103$ seems a best buy for me right now.

The E8400 (65W 3.0Ghz)costs almost the double of it.

Are 87$ really worth for 0.1 Ghz more ?

[calvinandh0bbes]

does it really make sense to be specing hardware right now given all the development work in the GSoC in terms of GPU hardware acceleration? If the work is succesful, wouldn't that greatly reduce the hardware requirements to run XBMC?

[BLKMGK]

Stomping is a bit hard I think. :eek:

The new 65W Brisbane Core 5600+ 2.9Ghz for 103$ seems a best buy for me right now.

The E8400 (65W 3.0Ghz)costs almost the double of it.

Are 87$ really worth for 0.1 Ghz more ?

Are you really telling me that you think they perform equally clock for clock?:laugh: How about heat dissipation? Power usage? I have an E8400 running 3.8Ghz in this workstation, I do not think I could achieve the same performance with an AMD for a reasonable cost. Yes, I've owned many AMD and until the C2D that was all I had in house.

In this case we simply need "good enough" for the task at hand. I've seen lots of folks with AMD having playback issues, far fewer with Intel I think. IF you can get smooth playback and no dropped frames with the $100 chip buy it but don't buy it just because the rated speed is close for a lower price.

[boba23]

Are you really telling me that you think they perform equally clock for clock?:laugh: How about heat dissipation? Power usage? I have an E8400 running 3.8Ghz in this workstation, I do not think I could achieve the same performance with an AMD for a reasonable cost. Yes, I've owned many AMD and until the C2D that was all I had in house.

In this case we simply need "good enough" for the task at hand. I've seen lots of folks with AMD having playback issues, far fewer with Intel I think. IF you can get smooth playback and no dropped frames with the $100 chip buy it but don't buy it just because the rated speed is close for a lower price.

Well, of course Intel Core2 is faster clock by clock, but in my eyes it can't be the solution to put a dual core 5 ghz machine into your living room just to play videos, can it?
Anyway, as I stated before, I didn't test 34384734 1080p videos, but any of the H264 1080p trailers I threw at my AMD 4850e (running at default clock) played perfectly fine so far. So I do not see a reason to put a system into my HTPC, which could participate in the super computer top 500 list. That's simply rediculous. Plust, HW MPEG4/H264 etc. accel will come to linux sooner or later.

[althekiller]

I think we all know the only 1080p test we care about is the killa sampla. Trailers generally aren't encoded at too high a bitrate anyway.

[jkrellner]

I got my components (see my sig) yesterday and slapped them together but I am having trouble with the front panel (power, LED, speaker, etc.) plug (which is all one piece) not matching up with the connector on the Mobo. I am going to try my hand at pulling each wire out and connecting it manually, but I have never done this before so this is frustrating. I am contemplating dropping $75 for a new case (the one I am using is old) just to avoid the issue.

So, I had hoped to report total success last night but alas, it looks like one or two more days before I'll have a chance to get XBMC up and running on the new system.

[boba23]

I think we all know the only 1080p test we care about is the killa sampla. Trailers generally aren't encoded at too high a bitrate anyway.

Well, if you enjoy watching that killa sample all day, fine with me.
I just tested two regularly encoded 1080p movies. Still no problems in sight.

boba

[g0dders]

Well, if you enjoy watching that killa sample all day, fine with me.

I think the point is that sample is about the toughest bit of h264 you're ever going to have to decode. So if that works, you can be pretty sure you're not going to encounter problems later.

If you're happy with the possibility that some movies are going to stutter in busy scenes, then fine, don't bother. (Personally I would find it very hard to actually enjoy a movie if I knew it was dropping frames - I'd spend the whole time trying to work out how to fix it :))

[BLKMGK]

I think the point is that sample is about the toughest bit of h264 you're ever going to have to decode. So if that works, you can be pretty sure you're not going to encounter problems later.

If you're happy with the possibility that some movies are going to stutter in busy scenes, then fine, don't bother. (Personally I would find it very hard to actually enjoy a movie if I knew it was dropping frames - I'd spend the whole time trying to work out how to fix it :))

Bingo! Because you see until I bumped my CPU up I WAS dropping frames in some movies! Not just super high bitrate movies either but movies *I* encoded from HD-DVD and BD disks. Usually action movies, movies with lots of foliage seemed the worst and the Bird Scene, encoded by me from HD-DVD, was indeed one of the ones that had issues! That's a REALLY rough scene.

Apple Trailers? Cake. Can play them all day long and could before I bumped CPU clockspeed too. They are not terribly demanding near as I can tell. They do however look freakin' great so by all means try encoding an entire movie and see how it looks. Bottom line is it's up to you as to what's acceptable but please don't try to sell others on the "good enough" when more than one of us has found out otherwise - people reading this are often making purchasing decisions based on what's posted here.

Thread title is Best Hardware... My philosophy is to not try to cut corners and end up wishing I'd spent a little more but not spend stupid money. Do it right the first time, set it and forget it. If that means an extra $100 then I will do it, this device supports my entetainment so it's worth it.

Yes, XBMC code is getting better for decoding, yes "someday" we'll see video accel in drivers. Now go read the developer threads where they're working on that and judge how long it's likely to be! :( I'm using my system now, not months or a year from now. ATI is having issues opening up that hardware module, NVIDIA isn't even trying, closed source drivers haven't done it. ATI may have to try to use less optimized pieces of hardware to accomplish it - we're already doing it on the CPU.

BTW - just played back my encode of Bird Scene. Is from Disk 1 of the BBC Earth series right near front. 24Mbits/s on my encode and both cores pushed up past 50%. No, I don't think that means I have CPU to spare either! Killa sample peaks at over 40Mbits/s and over 60% CPU by comparison.

[harryzimm]

Thread title is Best Hardware... My philosophy is to not try to cut corners and end up wishing I'd spent a little more but not spend stupid money. Do it right the first time, set it and forget it. If that means an extra $100 then I will do it, this device supports my entetainment so it's worth it.


I agree. I've got a shuttle xpc SN68SG2 with a nvidia 8400gs and a amd x2 5600 windsor overclocked @3.2ghz and i still drop frames in some 1080p video.The killa sample drops around 480 frames and the framerate sinks to a minimum of 18fps. Fair enough 95% of 1080p content i can play but the 5% i cant drives me nuts. What i should have done is bought a intel 775 xpc with a E8400. Lesson learned, for you guys looking to buy hardware go intel and nvidia all the way its worth the extra cash any day of the week.

ps I've clocked at 3.4ghz and still drop frames in the killa sample.

[onesojourner]

I have been looking into upgrading my old box. AMD seems like the way to go for the price. Here is what I am looking at. I already have an earthwatts (430) power supply, case and 1 gig stick of ddr2.



ASUS M2A-VM AM2 AMD 690G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131172)

ZOTAC ZT-86TEG2P-FSR GeForce 8600 GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500001)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ Windsor 2.4GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO4600CZBOX - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103064)

Total is under 175 after the rebate on the video card.

I will mostly be playing h.264 at 720p though so I am hoping my current set up will do it.

[jkrellner]

Well, I am happy to report GREAT SUCCESS with my new PC. With a new case (and easier to deal with front panel connectors), I had it up and running within minutes. Loaded Luigi's LiveUSB 2.0 onto my USB stick and away I went. What the developers have done is INCREDIBLE.

So, with the components below and no extra overclocking (the 9600 GT Sonic is already overclocked a little), I can report the following:

1. Killa Sample plays beatifully -- no visible dropped frames. How can I tell for sure if it is dropping any (not discernable by just watching)?? I would like to have the comfort of knowing that it isn't in fact dropping any.

2. I am Legend trailer plays great, too. This trailer had one spot that would send my other computers into tizzies and that was about 15-20 seconds in, when it shows all the people crowded into the checkpoint by the bridge. This configuration sailed through beautifully.

So while this configuration is definitely not the cheapest way to go, it buys you great peace of mind knowing you can play whatever's out there. Between Newegg and ZipZoomFly (thanks BLKMGK), I kept it under $900 with the only reused parts being a keyboard and mouse. You could probably go with less for the video card, but I could not resist the ports on the 9600 GT Sonic [2 Dual-Link DVI, 1 HDMI and one "Display" port].

Now, on to figuring out how to get the touchscreen functional...

[ShortySco]

If you press the "i" key on your keyboard, it brings up a display with dropped frame count. I often drop a few frames at the begining of play or when i pause/ff/rw i believe this is normal ???

I guess bringing up the stats does itself use some CPU cycles (cant be significant though?) so i guess there may be another way to gt the "true" performance from the log or something.

Shorty

[jkrellner]

If you press the "i" key on your keyboard, it brings up a display with dropped frame count. I often drop a few frames at the begining of play or when i pause/ff/rw i believe this is normal ???

I guess bringing up the stats does itself use some CPU cycles (cant be significant though?) so i guess there may be another way to gt the "true" performance from the log or something.

Shorty

Cool, I'll check that out when I fire it up tomorrow. Thanks!

[odinb]

Anyone have any thoughts on this one?
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Acer-AX1200-U1520A-Desktop-PC-AX1200U1520A/sem/rpsm/oid/214483/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Seems like one only has to add SPDIF (http://www.cesell.com/product.php?productid=33587&cat=0&page=1) and an HDTV 5500 (http://www.pchdtv.com/) for am yth TV PVR and XBMC for everything else. This after upgrading from Vista to Linux/Ubuntu ofcourse.

Have a friend that wants an easy box, and fell a little hesitant to recommend this one due to the AMD CPU, otherwise I think it looks good HW-wise for a HTPC.

Is it recommended to stay off AMD CPUs? Anyone tried this box, and knows how/if it will run the killa-sample?

[jkrellner]

The E8400 is golden...

Every video I play shows "1" dropped frame. Killa Sample is the most CPU-intensive and it only draws 68% CPU usage (on each core) at its highest point. Anybody looking to build a machine should definitely fork over the $$$ for the E8400. It is a beast.

[Haohmaru]

Great to read that you doesn't have any dropped frames with your config but I don't understand how is it possible beacouse a lot of ppl have dropped frames with the same CPU.
It's true you are the first I see reporting with a 9xxx Nvidia card but most of the ppl have a 8500 Gt or 8600 Gt with an E8400 and still have Issues.

[jkrellner]

Great to read that you doesn't have any dropped frames with your config but I don't understand how is it possible beacouse a lot of ppl have dropped frames with the same CPU.
It's true you are the first I see reporting with a 9xxx Nvidia card but most of the ppl have a 8500 Gt or 8600 Gt with an E8400 and still have Issues.

I don't know why that would be. The only thing not mentioned in my sig is that I have no HDD; this is running from Luigi's LiveUSB 2.0.

I thought the general consensus here is that the E8400 is what you need to avoid dropped frames. Do others with the processor have more than 1 dropped frame in any video? Without overclocking? If so, it must have to do with the nVidia 9600 GT Sonic, which is overclocked by default.

[Razor_109]

Great to read that you doesn't have any dropped frames with your config but I don't understand how is it possible beacouse a lot of ppl have dropped frames with the same CPU.
It's true you are the first I see reporting with a 9xxx Nvidia card but most of the ppl have a 8500 Gt or 8600 Gt with an E8400 and still have Issues.
I'm running an E8400

No dropped frames here.. Even KillaSample plays without dropping frames. And my onboard video is kinda sucky (nvideo 7100) ;D but the CPU makes up for it i guess.

I say, when you drop frames with E8400 something is setup wrong. Tried like almost _all_ kinds or 1080p mkv's and none drop frames, when playing most of the 1080p the CPU load is +/- 60%. KillaSample has a top cpu load of 85%.

If you look in other treads i wrote you have to make sure you dont have any post-processing enabled (brightness, gamma, contrast...) those will make the CPU choke ;)

[BLKMGK]

I am not running an E8400 but am instead running an older 65nm CPU clocked to about the same speed as the E8400. As soon as I neared that speed (and updated XBMC) I was able to play Killa with no dropped frames. I even bumped CPU, tested, then bumped again and could see the numbers of dropped frames going down so I knew it was all CPU related. Lastly, I found that newer versions of XBMC played smoother - I could "see" the code improving over time. When I first did this I would still get a frame or two dropped, now none at all and CPU usage is reported pretty low. I do not know at what speed you could go and not get dropped frames, I do recall someone with a 7x series vid card and a CPU clocked to my speed having issues awhile back but with code improvements maybe that has changed. I suppose I could slow my CPU down and retest until I found dropped frames but meh, it works!

A big advantage of the 45nm CPUs is heat. My 65nm is certainly going to get warmer than the newer ones. I have a 45nm E8400 in my desktop cranked to 3.8Ghz and it actually runs pretty cool. If there's much of a cost savings to be had with a slower 45nm CPU I'd consider that and overclock it but honestly I do not think there's much savings to be had. BTW I do post process via XBMC on lower rez stuff, the CPU doesn't even seem to notice it. If the devs wante dto pile on a ton of post processing options I'm all for it. (lol)

[cejstrup]

Did you try pressing "i" on the keyboard and watch the "dropped frames" variable?

Shorty

I did and there was some dropped frames. Around 200 or so :blush:

I've just replaced the CPU due to heat issues and dropped in a E7200 instead. It had the same amount of dropped frames.

Then I decided to try and overclock it to see if the drops would disappear. And they did :cool:

It can run 3.16GHz stable without even increasing the voltage and it's still a lot cooler than the E6600. This CPU rocks :nod:


Here's my setup for playing back the bird sample without frame drops:

CPU: Intel E7200 overclocked to 3.16GHz
GFX: GeForce 7100 GS
Mobo: MSI G965 Neo2

[cejstrup]

I forgot, the CPU load is around 70% playing the bird sample..

[BLKMGK]

I did and there was some dropped frames. Around 200 or so :blush:

I've just replaced the CPU due to heat issues and dropped in a E7200 instead. It had the same amount of dropped frames.

Then I decided to try and overclock it to see if the drops would disappear. And they did :cool:

It can run 3.16GHz stable without even increasing the voltage and it's still a lot cooler than the E6600. This CPU rocks :nod:


Here's my setup for playing back the bird sample without frame drops:

CPU: Intel E7200 overclocked to 3.16GHz
GFX: GeForce 7100 GS
Mobo: MSI G965 Neo2

Excellent! I'd hoped that the lower CPU could clock high enough for this, thanks for testing! I've just heard that the E8400 is about to be dropped as a higher speed CPU is being dropped to it's price. I think the new one clocks at 3.15Ghz, not sure what the next lowest below that will be when that occurs. Hope a lower speed one fast enough for our use sticks around at a good price! Vry, cool - maybe time to upgrade MY CPU:nod:

[majorheadache]

I don't know if anyone will find this useful but I swear I've read this thread backwards and forwards trying to glean what I could from it. Eventually I decided to make a table of what's working and what's not.

This is assuming you want something NOW, given currently available hardware and currently available code. Also it assumes you want something that plays the killa sample with ~0 dropped frames.

These are the configurations that passed the test and who posted the result:

MFR Proc Speed GFX Mobo According to
Intel E7200 OC 3.16GHz GeForce 7100 GS MSI G965 Neo2 cejstrup
Intel E8400 3GHz nVidia 9600GT GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3L jkrellner
Intel E8400 3GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ABIT I-N73HD Razor_109 http://xbmc.org/forum/showpost.php?p=201416&postcount=88
Intel C2D E6750 OC ~3GHz MSI 8500GT ASUS P5E VM-HDMI BLKMGK

I'm sorry I can't make this table look better ???

And these are configurations that don't play the killa sample well, even though many of the authors point out that the systems are quite good in all other respects.

Intel Celeron 430 Conroe 1.8 GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ECS GF7100PVT-M IrishTR
Intel E8200 2.66GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ABIT I-N73HD ShortySco Doesn't play 1080P at all
Intel E8400 3GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ABIT I-N73HD Razor_109 http://xbmc.org/forum/showpost.php?p=194416&postcount=33
Intel E4700 3GHz Onboard GeForce 7150 EVGA 7150-630i succo
Intel E8400 3GHz Onboard Intel 3100 Gigabyte GA-G33M-S2H Amdmannen Reports no hiccups, but no report of checking actual dropped frames
Intel E7200 2.53GHz GeForce 7100 GS MSI G965 Neo2 cejstrup
AMD x2 5600 OC 3.2GHz nVidia 8400 GS shuttle xpc SN68SG2 harryzimm

I think it's worth noting that Razor_109 is on both lists with a link in the comments. I'm not sure what happened but in June he said it doesn't play it but in July he says it does. Maybe a code update helped, or maybe I'm confused. According to what I'm seeing, his system is sort of right on the edge of where you don't drop frames, so it's hard to know. Maybe he will comment.

There were some AMD proponents, but none I could really see a specific configuration that was tested and known to not drop frames of the KS

The system I'd like to see tested now is something with an E7200 and an nVidia 8500 or 8600 GT. Would the faster video card compensate for the lost cpu cycles?

[icekiller]

No a faster video card would't, the main point is that it has Opengl 2 and some other stuff (on the wiki) so it can be a 9800 or a 8800 as long as minimum specs are ok.

The reason for this,is because there isn't any (yet?) hardware acceleration

One quick note, the intel c2d e6750 OC ~3GHZ MSI 8500GT Asus P5e VM-hdmi BLKMGK
doesn't that one have an onboard hdmi port ? if so doesn't that play the killa sample? just asking for main info ;)

[amdmannen]

:D what a work m8.
Well i did check the dropped frames then but didnt tell, re-ran killa_sample right now and took some screenies.
Note that every time you take a screenshoot 10 frames is added to the dropped frames count.
So at first playing the clip there is 1 drooped, then 11 on so on.
Heres the pics:

http://www.geting.se/image.php/115841-screenshot132.jpg (http://www.geting.se/viewimage.php?image=115841-screenshot132.jpg)

http://www.geting.se/image.php/115842-screenshot133.jpg (http://www.geting.se/viewimage.php?image=115842-screenshot133.jpg)

http://www.geting.se/image.php/115843-screenshot134.jpg (http://www.geting.se/viewimage.php?image=115843-screenshot134.jpg)

[cejstrup]

Great list. Gives us a good overview. :cool:

The pattern seems to be:

* CPU has to be Intel and at least 3 GHz. Probably also a Core 2 Duo type, I don't think the old P4s would be powerful enough even at 3+ GHz.
* If video is onboard it won't work. Even if the CPU is fast enough.

[olympia]

* If video is onboard it won't work. Even if the CPU is fast enough.

Those setups, with geforce 7100 GS are onboard solutions...

[amdmannen]

Onboard video is just fine, look at my setup, Intel 3100 budget graphic chip, plays fine.
But my concern is if OpenGL 2.0 would change anything in gui, pictures etc. too the better because Intel 3100 is a openGL 1.5 shitty :P

[cejstrup]

Those setups, with geforce 7100 GS are onboard solutions...

No it's not an onboard video card . It's my setup,so I should know :;):

[cejstrup]

But it seems like there's another setup with an onboard 7100 that works..Hmm..

[olympia]

No it's not an onboard video card . It's my setup,so I should know :;):

Yes, sorry, wanted to mention geforce 7100, without GS.

[BLKMGK]

No a faster video card would't, the main point is that it has Opengl 2 and some other stuff (on the wiki) so it can be a 9800 or a 8800 as long as minimum specs are ok.

The reason for this,is because there isn't any (yet?) hardware acceleration

One quick note, the intel c2d e6750 OC ~3GHZ MSI 8500GT Asus P5e VM-hdmi BLKMGK
doesn't that one have an onboard hdmi port ? if so doesn't that play the killa sample? just asking for main info ;)

I have an added on MSI 8500 in mine. I had TRIED to get the Intel working but the drivers loaded by Ubuntu didn't do it and trying to figure out how to compile the Intel drivers was a task I wasn't willing to sweat to do when I HAD the NVIDIA card sitting. I think one other person has my board and might have had better success but am unsure. So, jury still ouot on this Intel video chipset I *think*. Looking at the Wikipedia this chipset not looking so hot for video IMO.

Doing it again I'd use a Shuttle XPC, skip the expensive case, and have a smaller nicer system overall with this NVIDIA card in the XPC. Oh and I'd want a 45nm CPU too!

[icekiller]

sorry but intel? It has a n onboard nvidia 7100 ...

because i have the same one...
c2d e6750, P5N-EM hdmi...

its has a nvidia 7100 onboard..

[Aenima99x]

sorry but intel? It has a n onboard nvidia 7100 ...

because i have the same one...
c2d e6750, pe5e vm hdmi...

its has a nvidia 7100 onboard..

Wrong....I have a c2d 6750 and the Asus P5E-VM-HDMI and it has onboard Intel graphics. I fought with the onboard graphics for a while before giving up and going with a Radeon HD 3450......fought with that too for a little while, but it works perfect now using Envy.

[Razor_109]

I don't know if anyone will find this useful but I swear I've read this thread backwards and forwards trying to glean what I could from it. Eventually I decided to make a table of what's working and what's not.

This is assuming you want something NOW, given currently available hardware and currently available code. Also it assumes you want something that plays the killa sample with ~0 dropped frames.

These are the configurations that passed the test and who posted the result:

MFR Proc Speed GFX Mobo According to
Intel E7200 OC 3.16GHz GeForce 7100 GS MSI G965 Neo2 cejstrup
Intel E8400 3GHz nVidia 9600GT GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3L jkrellner
Intel E8400 3GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ABIT I-N73HD Razor_109 http://xbmc.org/forum/showpost.php?p=201416&postcount=88
Intel C2D E6750 OC ~3GHz MSI 8500GT ASUS P5E VM-HDMI BLKMGK

I'm sorry I can't make this table look better ???

And these are configurations that don't play the killa sample well, even though many of the authors point out that the systems are quite good in all other respects.

Intel Celeron 430 Conroe 1.8 GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ECS GF7100PVT-M IrishTR
Intel E8200 2.66GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ABIT I-N73HD ShortySco Doesn't play 1080P at all
Intel E8400 3GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ABIT I-N73HD Razor_109 http://xbmc.org/forum/showpost.php?p=194416&postcount=33
Intel E4700 3GHz Onboard GeForce 7150 EVGA 7150-630i succo
Intel E8400 3GHz Onboard Intel 3100 Gigabyte GA-G33M-S2H Amdmannen Reports no hiccups, but no report of checking actual dropped frames
Intel E7200 2.53GHz GeForce 7100 GS MSI G965 Neo2 cejstrup
AMD x2 5600 OC 3.2GHz nVidia 8400 GS shuttle xpc SN68SG2 harryzimm

I think it's worth noting that Razor_109 is on both lists with a link in the comments. I'm not sure what happened but in June he said it doesn't play it but in July he says it does. Maybe a code update helped, or maybe I'm confused. According to what I'm seeing, his system is sort of right on the edge of where you don't drop frames, so it's hard to know. Maybe he will comment.

There were some AMD proponents, but none I could really see a specific configuration that was tested and known to not drop frames of the KS

The system I'd like to see tested now is something with an E7200 and an nVidia 8500 or 8600 GT. Would the faster video card compensate for the lost cpu cycles?

Can you remove me from that list, i found my problem (i had post-processing enabled) now its running perfectly and my config runs all 1080p x264 mkv rips flawlessly!

Thanks
Intel E8400 3GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ABIT I-N73HD Razor_109 http://xbmc.org/forum/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=33

[Razor_109]

ok well.. noticed you listed me both for passed and failed.. so only the last one is not correct then ;)

[icekiller]

ah seems i read to fast or got the type mixed up,

asus P5N-EM HDMI,has nvidia geforce 7100 / nvidia nforce 630i
which does run 1080p ;)

[majorheadache]

....I have a c2d 6750 and the Asus P5E-VM-HDMI and it has onboard Intel graphics. I fought with the onboard graphics for a while before giving up and going with a Radeon HD 3450......fought with that too for a little while, but it works perfect now using Envy.

Aenima99, can you confirm ~0 dropped frames in the killa sample? That would be a defining test and a c2d 6750 would be the lowest confirmed CPU I've seen to pass it. Would be great to know.

@Razor_109 glad to know the source of the confusion. I can't edit my own post, but if is updated I'll remove the latter entry.

[papaf]

Are intel CPUs really the only way to go? Are AMDs really that far behind? Because I see there's quite a price tag difference...

Also, would those requirements change much for 720p?

Thanks!

[BLKMGK]

Yes, AMDs do appear to be THAT far behind. Kills me as a stockholder but it seems to be true. Plus the C2D run REAL cool and overclock like mad. I actually wonder if one of the dual core Celeron could be made to work, not priced them out though. If they make a 45nm one....

For 720P the requirements are indeed lower. How low I'm not sure since what most of us are using as a benchmark is a pretty hefty 1080 sample. Has anyone got a good 720P sample to try?

FWIW, looked at two sets in a store - one 720, the other 1080 side by side - same signal same size screen. Yes, I could see a difference in sharpness - very happy at 1080 here!

[ShortySco]

These are the configurations that passed the test and who posted the result:

MFR Proc Speed GFX Mobo According to
Intel E7200 OC 3.16GHz GeForce 7100 GS MSI G965 Neo2 cejstrup
Intel E8400 3GHz nVidia 9600GT GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3L jkrellner
Intel E8400 3GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ABIT I-N73HD Razor_109 http://xbmc.org/forum/showpost.php?p=201416&postcount=88
Intel C2D E6750 OC ~3GHz MSI 8500GT ASUS P5E VM-HDMI BLKMGK

And these are configurations that don't play the killa sample well, even though many of the authors point out that the systems are quite good in all other respects.

Intel Celeron 430 Conroe 1.8 GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ECS GF7100PVT-M IrishTR
Intel E8200 2.66GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ABIT I-N73HD ShortySco Doesn't play 1080P at all
Intel E8400 3GHz Onboard GeForce 7100 ABIT I-N73HD Razor_109 http://xbmc.org/forum/showpost.php?p=194416&postcount=33
Intel E4700 3GHz Onboard GeForce 7150 EVGA 7150-630i succo
Intel E8400 3GHz Onboard Intel 3100 Gigabyte GA-G33M-S2H Amdmannen Reports no hiccups, but no report of checking actual dropped frames
Intel E7200 2.53GHz GeForce 7100 GS MSI G965 Neo2 cejstrup
AMD x2 5600 OC 3.2GHz nVidia 8400 GS shuttle xpc SN68SG2 harryzimm

I think it's worth noting that Razor_109 is on both lists with a link in the comments. I'm not sure what happened but in June he said it doesn't play it but in July he says it does. Maybe a code update helped, or maybe I'm confused. According to what I'm seeing, his system is sort of right on the edge of where you don't drop frames, so it's hard to know. Maybe he will comment.

My setup plays the killa sample (@1080p) very smoothly, although around 30 frames are dropped, it plays all other 1080p stuff i've tried perfectly.

I'm sure it can be made to drop 0 frames, but i've not had much time too mess about with drivers and such.

Shorty

[BLKMGK]

My setup plays the killa sample (@1080p) very smoothly, although around 30 frames are dropped, it plays all other 1080p stuff i've tried perfectly.

I'm sure it can be made to drop 0 frames, but i've not had much time too mess about with drivers and such.

Shorty

At what clock speed? 2.66ghz? Try bumping clock up just a bit and you will see no dropped frames. It's as simple as that I'll bet.

[sensei73]

Hi and what about a Intel Q6600???

[althekiller]

Quad core is over kill as ffmpegs parallel decoding doesn't scale past two threads for now anyway. 3GHz is the key.

[BLKMGK]

Q6600 can run 3Ghz, I have one, but it will be hot as hell under load - it's a 65nm chip. Better to spend about the same for a C2D 45nm chip and get it's speed up IMO.

[davidw89]

I have a Q6600 running at 3.2Ghz stable. It is not "hot" because i bought a good cooler (Noctua). But yeah go for the new 45nm chip!

[davidw89]

Any idea on how to get a Wii Remote + Nunchuck connected to Ubuntu and working on XBMC?

[althekiller]

Any idea on how to get a Wii Remote + Nunchuck connected to Ubuntu and working on XBMC?

Why the hell would you post that in a thread titled "Best XBMC HTPC Hardware with HDMI / HD / 1080p + HDMI Audio" ?

[jochenz]

I tested XBMC live on my laptop:

HP Compaq 6910p
Intel Core2Duo T7300 @ 2,0 GHz
2 GB of memory

playing the "killa bird sample"

CPU load went up to about 80%
framerate was about 20 fps

but for some reason it said it was dropping frames like hell "dropped frames: 70".

I dont understand why CPUload would not be max-ed out, though dropping frames.

I'll try the XBMC live tomorrow on my:
desktop:
Asus M2A-VM HDMI
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+

See how it holds.

[rodalpho]

Quad core is over kill as ffmpegs parallel decoding doesn't scale past two threads for now anyway. 3GHz is the key.
My HTPC couldn't play the killa sample smoothly at 3Ghz with integrated nv 7150 graphics. It both dropped frames and had audio stuttering. I installed a 9500GT for the heck of it, and now it plays smoothly. So integrated graphics do demonstrably hurt performance but honestly the 9500GT was overkill, all other video played fine without it.

[CASHMON3Y]

I tested XBMC live on my laptop:

HP Compaq 6910p
Intel Core2Duo T7300 @ 2,0 GHz
2 GB of memory

playing the "killa bird sample"

CPU load went up to about 80%
framerate was about 20 fps

but for some reason it said it was dropping frames like hell "dropped frames: 70".

I dont understand why CPUload would not be max-ed out, though dropping frames.

I'll try the XBMC live tomorrow on my:
desktop:
Asus M2A-VM HDMI
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+

See how it holds.
70 dropped frames isnt to bad on a laptop with only 2GHz.

[amdmannen]

But fps is way off what i should be.
Cores not maxing out could be that the system reserves some for the core system.

[Musta78]

What kind of reading/writing speed should we look for if we wanna use a usb pen as "harddrive"?

Maybe this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220252
Any thoughts?

[Kismukk]

I tested XBMC Live on my office desktop pc:

HP DC7800p SFF
Intel C2D E6550 2,33 GHz
2 GB of memory
Intel GMA X3100 onboard VGA

test video was the "killa bird sample"
15 dropped frames with some visible hiccup

so this machine failed, it doesn`t play the "killa bird sample" well.
But I tried some other sample 720p and 1080p videos, and them played fine.

This box could be a good choice with XBMC Live. Small, silent and look nice.
Only the digital audio out is missing.

[BLKMGK]

Kismukk - if you can manage to overclock it to around 3ghz and retest the result could be VERY interesting... 15 dropped frames on that clip is not too bad

[Kismukk]

I`m afraid the overclock is not possible on that machine :(

[Pahalial]

Alright, so I'm planning on building one of these puppies. Would the Intel GMA3100 integrated graphics in this shuttle be good enough with an E8400? I see a few people in this thread saying things worked better with a real graphics card, but from what I'm seeing the 8400gs doesn't have HDMI out and things will start to get hot as I go further up.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=33732

Also, anyone have advice on cooling for the E8400? Stock HSF fine [and quiet enough?] or should I go aftermarket?

Oh, and RAM. Anywhere 1GB+ still fine or should I splurge and go 4GB?

For those who bought barebones Shuttles, did they have an included PSU and if so was it powerful enough? Did you buy a replacement 300W external from Shuttle directly?

[gyrene2083]

Regarding the Shuttle I asked the same question and was told that the Powersupply will handle the load. The only reason I would change it would be because the stock fans are too loud, that is according to the reviews I have read from owners. They all say the same thing, that it's loud. If you want to make it quiet you could always try the pico powersupply. But again I'm still learning myself, maybe one of these savvy veterans can chime in a little more.

-Semper Fi
gyrene2083

[BLKMGK]

The E8400 runs very cool even overclocked. I have a 65nm quad in a Shuttle overclocked pretty good and while it does get HOT the XPC cooler cools it - the E8400 should be fine. XPC aren't tooo loud unless the fans kick into high gear as they do on my quad when I transcode (100% CPU for HOURS). I think you'll find the powersupply is fine even though it's not rated really high. I will admit I've not used one as an HTPC though, they all sit in my home office but I've had like 4-5 of the silly things! PSU comes with the Shuttle XPC.

RAM, I run 2Gigs without issue and much over 3Gigs you run into addressing issues that 64bit is required to solve - I would stick to 32bit. You can still have 4gigs of memory mind you but it won't be fully utilized.

The GMA3100 I cannot speak to, you could always TRY it and then swap in a low end NVIDIA standalone if it doesn't work out well. IMO you'll be happier with the NVIDIA. <shrug>

Hope that helps!

[Pahalial]

The E8400 runs very cool even overclocked. I have a 65nm quad in a Shuttle overclocked pretty good and while it does get HOT the XPC cooler cools it - the E8400 should be fine. XPC aren't tooo loud unless the fans kick into high gear as they do on my quad when I transcode (100% CPU for HOURS). I think you'll find the powersupply is fine even though it's not rated really high. I will admit I've not used one as an HTPC though, they all sit in my home office but I've had like 4-5 of the silly things! PSU comes with the Shuttle XPC.

RAM, I run 2Gigs without issue and much over 3Gigs you run into addressing issues that 64bit is required to solve - I would stick to 32bit. You can still have 4gigs of memory mind you but it won't be fully utilized.

The GMA3100 I cannot speak to, you could always TRY it and then swap in a low end NVIDIA standalone if it doesn't work out well. IMO you'll be happier with the NVIDIA. <shrug>

Hope that helps!

Awesome! Thanks for the help. Going to try the onboard video, see how it goes.

[Ebbo]

http://eu.shuttle.com/de/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-72/170_read-14978/

What do you think about this one?

Looks nice, good Hardware:

Intel ATOM 330 Processor (Codename: Diamondville)
2x 1,6 GHz Kerntakt, 533 MHz FSB
2x 512kB L2-Cache

Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950 (GMA950)
....

[gbyte]

May work, but no HD. It can play only SD content.

[BLKMGK]

XBMC works with OpenGL 1.4 but 2.0 is recommended... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMA950#Table_of_GMA_graphics_cores_and_chipsets

The ATOM is indeed not fast enough for HD unless maybe it's 720P.

[Danzig]

This is the new dual-core atom we're talking about here:
http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-6493-view-Atom-330-FullHD-1080p-benchmark.html

[Pahalial]

Trip report: The onboard Intel 3100 graphics does not seem to be delivering all that well, even on just 720p (though admittedly some hard ones.) Plays fine but a bit jerky. This is with the E8400 OC'd to 3.6 GHz, but I think I can get it higher. Going to try now, will report back, probably going to pick up a 8400GS anyway though ($50, wow. that's awesomely cheap.)

Did a bit of investigating into the 3100, it would seem it still only supports OpenGL 1.4. I figure that's probably why.

[cvtem]

My HTPC was built from what people reported back on here, and very happy with the hardware selections I made.
Heres reports of my systems, using latest builds of xbmc.

Notebook 1 - Centrino T2400 (1.83ghz), Nvidia NVS 120M, Vista 32bit: 242 frames dropped

Notebook 2 - P4M (1.8Ghz), Radeon 9600, Gentoo (2.6.24): Did not play as such.. reported 221 frames dropped, but only played at 10-11fps and audio stopped playing within first 2 seconds of clip.
This does play most 720p clips fine. I have not had any 1080p clip play on it.

Desktop - Q6600, 9800gtx, vista 64bit: 45 frames dropped

Desktop - Q6600, 9800gtx, Ubuntu 8.10: 78 frames dropped

HTPC - E8400, 8600gt, Vista 32bit: 1 frame dropped


Hardware:
Asus P5K-SE-EPU
XFX 8600GT
Corsair 2gb 1066mhz CL5
Intel E8400
LG GGC-H20 bluray/hd dvd drive
2x WD 1TB Striped

[amdmannen]

The Intel 3100 graphic card is what my motherboard has.
It did all things well, almost, the ONLY thing it didn´t handle well was picture slideshow.
When the slideshow was started and the first picture was faded out and the second was fading in the problem started, both pictures was showing at the same time, then the choppyiness started.
Second was the problem with the hdmi, at reboot the picture was overscanned and the only thing left to do was to let the plasma auto adjust from it´s menu again, anoying as hell.
Bought a Nvida 8600GT and using a dvi->hdmi adapter, everything is fine now :)

But still the Intel 3100 was playing everything fine, no stutter etc., dvdr, 720 or 1080p.

[Matt Devo]

I'll add my new setup to the "recommended" list:

Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128072) (nVidia 630i/Geforce7100)
Core2Duo E7200 o/c to 3.16GHz (333x9.5)
2GB DDR2-800 RAM (2x1GB)
4GB USB flash drive
some old dvdrom
Microsoft MCE USB IR receiver (model 1040)
Harmony remote programmed as MS MCE-1040

killa sampla drops 1-2 frames at the start, and I'm pretty sure it's a network/buffering issue. HD-DVD/Bluray full rips (repacked, no recompression, to mkv, 20-30GB) play perfectly.

[cofin]

I'll add my new setup to the "recommended" list:

Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128072) (nVidia 630i/Geforce7100)
Core2Duo E7200 o/c to 3.16GHz (333x9.5)
2GB DDR2-800 RAM (2x1GB)
4GB USB flash drive
some old dvdrom
Microsoft MCE USB IR receiver (model 1040)
Harmony remote programmed as MS MCE-1040

killa sampla drops 1-2 frames at the start, and I'm pretty sure it's a network/buffering issue. HD-DVD/Bluray full rips (repacked, no recompression, to mkv, 20-30GB) play perfectly.
Were you able to get the HDMI+Audio or HDMI+optical to work on this motherboard in Linux?

[Matt Devo]

Were you able to get the HDMI+Audio or HDMI+optical to work on this motherboard in Linux?

I'm using HDMI for video, optical for audio since my receiver doesn't have a HDMI input. If someone wants to donate a HDMI-capable receiver, I'd be more than happy to test it =)

[fr0chu]

Hate to revive a dead thread, but how about this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103184)?
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+(2.3GHz)
3GB DDR2
Slot In DVD SuperMulti drive
ATI Radeon X1250 IGP
Gigabit LAN
1 DVI, 1 HDMI
Optical S/PDIF
US$400

The only potential problem I see is the ATI graphics, but it should be workable and at least it's OpenGl 2.0 capable. If you finagle enough, you may even be able to get Acer to refund the Microsoft tax, if you never boot into windows.

[Tarantulas]

From what I've gleaned in this thread that 4400+ is likely not fast enough to do 1080p... So if that's a priority, then you may need something a little beefier.

[Musta78]

You will not be able to play 1080p with 4400+.
I have trouble with mine, and other people who have overclocked the same model higher than mine have also problems.

Go for intel, and you can get a great result at 3 GHz. With amd you need a higher speed. Maybe up to 3.4 GHz

[Tarantulas]

Reading this thread, there are a ton of people who are just dead set on using AMD processors.... I used to be in that boat, but the Core 2 stuff just raised the bar so high in terms of performance... granted, AMD has the price edge, but at what cost?

This will all be moot once GPU acceleration enters the mix I'm sure...

[spozen]

Reading this thread, there are a ton of people who are just dead set on using AMD processors.... I used to be in that boat, but the Core 2 stuff just raised the bar so high in terms of performance... granted, AMD has the price edge, but at what cost?

This will all be moot once GPU acceleration enters the mix I'm sure...

I read somewhere that Intel processors is much better on video decoding because of SSE2 or something like that.

Anyway i have some questions about hardware:

Is Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 the only CPU that can handle 1080p out of the box?
And how come so many people here use the on board sound cards, is the quality of these sound cards good really enough for listening to music?

So right now I'm looking to buy the Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H mainboard anyone had any experience running Linux on this board?
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2691

[Tarantulas]

I read somewhere that Intel processors is much better on video decoding because of SSE2 or something like that.

Anyway i have some questions about hardware:

Is Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 the only CPU that can handle 1080p out of the box?
And how come so many people here use the on board sound cards, is the quality of these sound cards good really enough for listening to music?

So right now I'm looking to buy the Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H mainboard anyone had any experience running Linux on this board?
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2691

I'm not sure that SSE2 is it alone, microarchitecture differences (and advantages) over AMD are likely the key.

The e8400 isn't the only one that will do 1080p, but it's the low end of the ones that will do it well. Folks aren't reporting many dropped frames on e8400 and up... I'd avoid any of the Conroe chips (1st gen Core 2 cpus), the Wolfdale chips are much faster even at lower clock speeds.

Onboard sounds has come a long way, baby :grin: For most folks though, it seems that as long as it will output the audio over the HDMI connection, they're happy.

Only problem with that Gigabyte board is the 7100 video... which it's good, it's not good enough (according to some reports) to do 1080p on files like killa.sample. Try finding a board you like with a n9300 chipset... several folks are reporting successes with those, and when GPU accelerated decoding of HD content comes around, you can swap a slower CPU into your XBMC box and use the e8400 in your desktop machine :nod:

The Asus P5N7A-VM is the board I'm investigating now... there are a couple of folks who used this one and had success...

[Geekzilla]

...And how come so many people here use the on board sound cards, is the quality of these sound cards good really enough for listening to music?
Most of us are using the digital outputs connected directly to our stereos. This pretty much negates any sound quality concerns since bits are bits.

[Tarantulas]

Most of us are using the digital outputs connected directly to our stereos. This pretty much negates any sound quality concerns since bits are bits.

I love the "bits are bits" line :)

Most boards seems to have some manner of analog hum when using the analog ports, so if your HT rig is limited to analog input, a SA sound card would be a good investment.

[Tarantulas]

Don't know if it matters, but that Asus P5N7A-VM does HDCP on the DVI and HDMI connections.... don't know if it does on the Display Port connector, but I guess it might.

[BLKMGK]

You need C2D 3ghz - it need NOT be an E8400, slower CPU - yes even 65nm models - clocked to that speed work fine. Mine is an older 65nm and I overclocked it to over 3ghz with ZERO issues although I do use an aftermarket heatsink - mostly because the pegs on the Intel cooler suck for mounting!

Personally I like AMD and used to run them in ALL of my systems - I own their stock But for XBMC I've yet to hear of one doing that Killer sample without dropping frames at any clock speed. <sigh> Yes they are cheaper but as was asked above - at what cost? Build a system and then one day notice it's dropping frames in the middle of a good movie and you will be pissed. My system did that till I cranked it up, now it drops nothing.

Honestly I wonder if one of the dual core Celeron that overclock so well could be made to work. They are cheap and I have a feeling they could do it. I may be building a system for someone in the future and will try it but if someone else does first I'm all ears. The 65nm 1.6ghz CPU supposedly can do near 3ghz....

P.S. Linux could care less about HDCP - that's DRM crap for Windows. ;)

[Tarantulas]

You need C2D 3ghz - it need NOT be an E8400, slower CPU - yes even 65nm models - clocked to that speed work fine. Mine is an older 65nm and I overclocked it to over 3ghz with ZERO issues although I do use an aftermarket heatsink - mostly because the pegs on the Intel cooler suck for mounting!

Personally I like AMD and used to run them in ALL of my systems - I own their stock But for XBMC I've yet to hear of one doing that Killer sample without dropping frames at any clock speed. <sigh> Yes they are cheaper but as was asked above - at what cost? Build a system and then one day notice it's dropping frames in the middle of a good movie and you will be pissed. My system did that till I cranked it up, now it drops nothing.

Honestly I wonder if one of the dual core Celeron that overclock so well could be made to work. They are cheap and I have a feeling they could do it. I may be building a system for someone in the future and will try it but if someone else does first I'm all ears. The 65nm 1.6ghz CPU supposedly can do near 3ghz....

P.S. Linux could care less about HDCP - that's DRM crap for Windows. ;)

Indeed... those pins SUCK.. it's the lamest part of the PGA775 design.

I like AMD too, and owned AMD systems exclusively for years (go 486 DX5 133Mhz! heh), but with C2D, Intel just hit the NO2 and didn't look back... It's a pretty big performance gap truth be told...

Also, you gotta be careful about comparing apples to apple with these new Intel chips. A C2D e6850 (Conroe core) @ 3ghz is SLOWER than a Wolfdale based e8400 C2D @ 3Ghz... benchmarks prove it, and it's a considerable difference in speed. Part of this is due to the cache differences and different changes in the microarchitecture of the CPU.

I understand budgets and all, but I'd avoid Celeron. The FSB is only 800mhz, plus it has 512k of cache (vs 6mb on the e8400). True you can overclock the bajesus out of it, but can you get the FSB to 1333mhz range to get those 2 cores talking in the neighborhood of a natively clocked e8400, and can you do it without installing a air conditioner in the case? :laugh:

[Tarantulas]

Also my HDCP reference was for folks doing this under XP so they can play bluray.... which I'm sort of thinking I would do from time to time... maybe ;)

[BLKMGK]

Yes, I know that architecture matters but the 65nm chips at 3ghz CAN do the job - mine is doing it right now as I type this!

As for the celeron, cache makes a difference sometimes but not always. Hell I used to run the cacheless ones way back when and everyone told me how crappy they were. I then proceeded to tell them what my framerates were in various games and it was as good as theirs running "real" CPU. So while we can benchrace CPU all day long the only real way to know for sure in MY mind is to try it! I honestly think the celeron would have a fighting chance but without seeing it or someone trying we I won't know. It's a cheap chip and I'd slap one in my existing system to test if it weren't for the PITA factor of tearing it apart. If I build a system for the SO I will try it and see, if it doesn't work then that CPU goes into her desktop and I order an e8400 for me and swap this CPU into her new machine. <shrug> Probably won't happen too soon though so if someone else tries it first please post results here!

[Tarantulas]

I had a slot 1 Celeron 266 MANY moons ago... nice cheap option for this NAS box I was building... heh... it was ok for the price, but slow has hell compared to a P2300...

They really came into their own in the socket 370 days... I had dual 300's running at 400 or something like that... a nice SETI@Home rig :)

[spozen]

Only problem with that Gigabyte board is the 7100 video... which it's good, it's not good enough (according to some reports) to do 1080p on files like killa.sample. Try finding a board you like with a n9300 chipset... several folks are reporting successes with those, and when GPU accelerated decoding of HD content comes around, you can swap a slower CPU into your XBMC box and use the e8400 in your desktop machine :nod:


How come i will have problem playing the killa sample when using the 7100 video + E8400? I know the video card isn't good enough for GPU assisted decoding but i thought the E8400 alone could decode the killa sample?


The Asus P5N7A-VM is the board I'm investigating now... there are a couple of folks who used this one and had success...


This looks like a high end board but the price is twice as high as the Gigabyte board but i guess you get what you pay for...

[Tarantulas]

How come i will have problem playing the killa sample when using the 7100 video + E8400? I know the video card isn't good enough for GPU assisted decoding but i thought the E8400 alone could decode the killa sample?

This looks like a high end board but the price is twice as high as the Gigabyte board but i guess you get what you pay for...

I dont' know exactly why a 7100 isn't "good enough", just relaying what folks earlier in the thread have mentioned... I'm sure this is one of those "your mileage may vary" type stations..

Factors to consider would be:

RAM Speed / Spec
Speed of the media you're loading the video from (network / HDD speed / flash)
Operating system (Win vs. Linux vs. Live)

That board I linked to has some pretty nice extras on it, including the better video and HDCP support... I'm sure that all (plus the Asus name) adds a bit to the price.

I'm of the opinion that I'd rather buy more than I need that constantly kick myself for not buying enough... plus all the parts can be handed down to other rigs I own and maintain as time goes on and the needs of XMBC change.

Just wait till HD goes 3K :) then we're gonna be hurting :)

[BLKMGK]

IMO try the 7100 board and if it doesn't fly for you swap in a cheap NVIDA video card and call it a day. some folks have had issues with onboard video cards not making it, some people seem to think that the 8x series and up boards are working better, but in the end try and see for yourself. XBMC is also slowly getting better too so the bar shoudl slowly come down on CPU speed I hope. That said - I agree with buying a bit of overkill if you can, beats banging head against wall when it doesn't quite work. <sigh>

P.S. Yes I ran the 266 Celeron and I did a few of the dual setups too some of which required soldering to work :D The new 1.6ghz Celeron can supposedly overclock very well and I'd like to try it one of these days just to see....

[pfriederichs]

Looking for any comments on these hardware choices (issues that could arise, etc).

Thanks!

MSI P7NGM-Digital LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 9300 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail

Memory - 2-4GB (Have not chosen brand yet -- memory is memory)

HDD - Mostly likely going to just use 4-8GB Flash card for this to keep noise down.

Case -- undecided -- suggestions? Looking to keep this thing around $400

[LolitaRainking]

Looking for any comments on these hardware choices (issues that could arise, etc).

Thanks!

MSI P7NGM-Digital LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 9300 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail

Memory - 2-4GB (Have not chosen brand yet -- memory is memory)

HDD - Mostly likely going to just use 4-8GB Flash card for this to keep noise down.

Case -- undecided -- suggestions? Looking to keep this thing around $400

You won't get audio over HDMI with a nvidia-card. You're better off with a cheap motherboard without hdmi and then a Radeon HD4550 (or any other radeon with hdmi-audio).

I have a Antec NSK1380 case. They're pretty ugly, but small and cheap (and quiet).

[TheJaff2]

You won't get audio over HDMI with a nvidia-card. You're better off with a cheap motherboard without hdmi and then a Radeon HD4550 (or any other radeon with hdmi-audio).
I've read one person claiming they've got audio over HDMI working with Nvidia 7100 (in winxp) on the Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H mobo.. i think it's in the aformentioned mobo-thread..

[LolitaRainking]

I've read one person claiming they've got audio over HDMI working with Nvidia 7100 (in winxp) on the Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H mobo.. i think it's in the aformentioned mobo-thread..

Yes, it works pefectly (i've got the exact same motherboard) in Windows but I guessed that's since this is in the XBMC for linux-forum you would be running linux on it...

[pfriederichs]

You won't get audio over HDMI with a nvidia-card. You're better off with a cheap motherboard without hdmi and then a Radeon HD4550 (or any other radeon with hdmi-audio).

I have a Antec NSK1380 case. They're pretty ugly, but small and cheap (and quiet).

Hrm... I have tried several ATI cards with XBMC Live and always seem to end up with a black screen on boot. Are you telling me that there are working ATI cards that will pass audio via. HDMI directly or this being done via. SPDIF passthrough?

[LolitaRainking]

The live-version doesn't work for me either with ATI-cards. I guess there's an old driver integrated into that version. But running ubuntu 8.10 with my HD4550 works great. I got the hdmi-cable hooked up to the telly, which in turn is connected via rca-plugs to my oooooold jvc. I don't know if it works with digital, but from what I read it shouldn't be a problem. Try googling it.

[spozen]

You won't get audio over HDMI with a nvidia-card. You're better off with a cheap motherboard without hdmi and then a Radeon HD4550 (or any other radeon with hdmi-audio).

I have a Antec NSK1380 case. They're pretty ugly, but small and cheap (and quiet).

I don't understand why people insist on using audio over hdmi, why? You can use SPDIF to your receiver instead and most TV's have line in.

[Tarantulas]

You won't get audio over HDMI with a nvidia-card. You're better off with a cheap motherboard without hdmi and then a Radeon HD4550 (or any other radeon with hdmi-audio).

I have a Antec NSK1380 case. They're pretty ugly, but small and cheap (and quiet).

Actually, you will get audio over HDMI, it just depends on your OS....

Even though this thread is in the Linux section (and honestly, should be stickied somewhere else) there are win32 people asking questions in here.

[Tarantulas]

I don't understand why people insist on using audio over hdmi, why? You can use SPDIF to your receiver instead and most TV's have line in.

It's one less cable, and frankly it's sort of antiquated to run 50 cables from your rig to your receiver to your TV

[LolitaRainking]

It's one less cable, and frankly it's sort of antiquated to run 50 cables from your rig to your receiver to your TV

I second that. Anything that makes a cable obsolote is okey in my book.

[spozen]

Is audio over HDMI as good as SPDIF? Because i thought optical was better than copper cable

[LolitaRainking]

Is audio over HDMI as good as SPDIF? Because i thought optical was better than copper cable

HDMI is purely digital. It's one's and zero's, it can't get any better.

[spozen]

that's what i expected but since my receiver doesn't take hdmi ill stick with SPDIF, i was just wondering why everyone was talking about HDMI audio.

[Tuckie]

HDMI audio is actually better than optical, as it can handle a higher bandwidth

[gabbott]

that's what i expected but since my receiver doesn't take hdmi ill stick with SPDIF, i was just wondering why everyone was talking about HDMI audio.

Because HDMI audio has higher bandwidth and supports the newer lossless audio codecs that optical cant do (i.e. TrueHD, DTS-MA)

[Tarantulas]

In other words, we're moving forward, not backward.

[codexile]

I just built a HTPC based on the recommendations throughout this forum.

Intel C2D E8400 - of course, seems you can't go wrong with this CPU.
Asus P5N7A-VM - a relatively expensive board, but i didn't want to putz around with adding a video card for HDMI.
Antec Minuet350 Case - I knew I wanted Antec and I almost went with the Fusion. However, upon hearing how big the Fusion was I went with this and I hope it'll be a decent size. Also, i figure the 80+ 350W PSU should stand up to the e8400 + integrated everything)
Cheapo G.SKILL 2x1GB RAM
Patriot Xporter XT 4GB Flash Drive - for XBMC Live. Supposed to be a real fast flash memory device. I'm skeptical about Live performance, but it'll be awesome if it "just works". If it doesn't I'll get a 30GB solid state instead. The $11 investment in the flash drive will not make me cry.

Total Cost: $470.24 shipped.

Not bad if this thing can run XBMC and actually handle HD well. I will report back on how many frames I drop after I get it up and running.

Other Thoughts: I had considered getting a Blu-Ray drive but that won't work with XBMC right? From what I understand the only thing that can really fascilitate blu-ray playback over a drive is PowerDVD 8 Ultimate. Am I wrong in this assumption?

Also, I plan on using S/PDIF Optical out for audio and not HDMI. Why? Because I am too cheap to upgrade my receiver.

[Tarantulas]

I just built a HTPC based on the recommendations throughout this forum.

Intel C2D E8400 - of course, seems you can't go wrong with this CPU.
Asus P5N7A-VM - a relatively expensive board, but i didn't want to putz around with adding a video card for HDMI.
Antec Minuet350 Case - I knew I wanted Antec and I almost went with the Fusion. However, upon hearing how big the Fusion was I went with this and I hope it'll be a decent size. Also, i figure the 80+ 350W PSU should stand up to the e8400 + integrated everything)
Cheapo G.SKILL 2x1GB RAM
Patriot Xporter XT 4GB Flash Drive - for XBMC Live. Supposed to be a real fast flash memory device. I'm skeptical about Live performance, but it'll be awesome if it "just works". If it doesn't I'll get a 30GB solid state instead. The $11 investment in the flash drive will not make me cry.

Total Cost: $470.24 shipped.

Not bad if this thing can run XBMC and actually handle HD well. I will report back on how many frames I drop after I get it up and running.

Other Thoughts: I had considered getting a Blu-Ray drive but that won't work with XBMC right? From what I understand the only thing that can really fascilitate blu-ray playback over a drive is PowerDVD 8 Ultimate. Am I wrong in this assumption?

Also, I plan on using S/PDIF Optical out for audio and not HDMI. Why? Because I am too cheap to upgrade my receiver.

So what did you choose to use in terms of a remote?

I'm still considering what case I want, and something that can be powered on via a remote is a big boon for me, and the reason that lots of people choose the Fusion.... but yeah, it is pretty huge for no good reason at all.

[Tarantulas]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129046&Tpk=antec%20350

Hmmm.... Antec MicroFusion 350

That's pretty small indeed.

[Schroeder]

So what did you choose to use in terms of a remote?

If I am correct, the case comes with a remote. Essentially the IMON MINI remote.

[succo]

You won't get audio over HDMI with a nvidia-card. You're better off with a cheap motherboard without hdmi and then a Radeon HD4550 (or any other radeon with hdmi-audio).

i have to correct you...
this is from alsa changelog:
ALSA: Support NVIDIA MCP78/7A HDMI audio
nvidia 78/7a hdmi audio is supported in alsa 1.0.8(a)... so it should work with 8x00 and 9x00 integrated chips...
on the other side, the 7050/7100/7150 is a whole different beast... it's MCP77 (if i remember well), and audio through hdmi should be supported in next 2.6.28 kernels, there are patches out there, anyway if you install alsa 1.0.8 with a 7150 (it's my case) the hdmi at the end of aplay -L will suddently disappear :)
from the changelog of alsa 1.0.8a i see
- ALSA: hda - Intel HDMI audio support
Add support for Intel G45 integrated HDMI audio codecs.
This initial release supports:
- 2 channel stereo sound output
- report monitor's ELD information
so hdmi audio should work now with g45 too

[spozen]

codexile :

I'm also getting that motherboard + E8400 if you get your setup up and running before i do, it would be great if you report back how good it works under linux and with XBMC.



Other Thoughts: I had considered getting a Blu-Ray drive but that won't work with XBMC right? From what I understand the only thing that can really fascilitate blu-ray playback over a drive is PowerDVD 8 Ultimate. Am I wrong in this assumption?

Blu ray is cracked so in the near future we should have playback in linux, if don't already. You can rip the movies and play them from your HDD/fileserver/NAS i personally think this is a better solution because then you don't have to put in a disc everytime you wanna watch a movie.

[BLKMGK]

Succo, any hope for PCI express cards being supported vs integrated? There's a nice motherboard, the Asus P5N7A-VM, I'm looking at but would like it working on my existing setup too if possible. http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40978&page=3

spozen - define "cracked"? I am aware of what they are doing at Doom9 but nto looked ni at least a few weeks. Last I saw they were playing some vids but not all and getting the keys to play them required hacked firmware and other hoops so not exactly PnP and certainly not yet as easy as Slysoft's software. Speaking of which the new BD+ has them stymied at the moment with something like a month before they are back in business on the new stuff last I checked. It's going to be a running battle no matter what I'm afraid. Anyway, likely OT for this thread but certainly somewhat applicable in that HDMI audio is what you need for the latest CODECS found on these disks. Other than BD I'm not sure where you'd be sourcing stuff with the new uncompressed CODECS and BD on Linux is an issue still <sigh>

[BLKMGK]

If I am correct, the case comes with a remote. Essentially the IMON MINI remote.

Can anyone confirm how this is working and on the LCD? I have a case with IRDA receiver and LCD now but none of the hardware accepts standard drivers, all wants patched stuff last I tried and I really don't much like that. Would like something nearly PnP which seems hard to find for LCD and remotes other than the MCE stuff - which works awesome.

[succo]

Succo, any hope for PCI express cards being supported vs integrated?
as far as i know, it should already work, at least from what i see around... many people using dedicated video cards (with internal cables to connect the hdmi to the internal digital output) seem to have hdmi audio unmuting the secondary iec958, but, as it's not my case, i can't say for sure

[Kryspy]

So, gonna throw my AMD 4600+ into a server case. I am thinking that even though proven; a E8400 may be overkill and for $60 less how do people feel about the E7300 and a 775 board with onboard 7100?

Kryspy

[BLKMGK]

as far as i know, it should already work, at least from what i see around... many people using dedicated video cards (with internal cables to connect the hdmi to the internal digital output) seem to have hdmi audio unmuting the secondary iec958, but, as it's not my case, i can't say for sure

If hooking it up to an internal SPID/F header aren't you simply getting the same output as you would from an optical out? If I've misunderstood please correct me but on my video card there's an input for this that I've not used as SPID/F optical out is not the same as HDMI sound. The optical and coax outputs cannot output the same uncompressed bandwidth that true HDMI audio can. If hooking up using an internal cable I do not see why even a software change would be needed - I'll grant I've not tried it however so I'm quite curious.

Krypsy, I'm running a 2.66ghz CPU - just not at it's stock speed. *My* BD H.264 rips of King Kong and other movies had dropped frames until I went to 3Ghz. I do not know how this compares to encodes done by "the scene" as I don't download movies so if that's your target YMMV. <shrug>

[succo]

yes i guess you're right, it's not 'real' hdmi audio, it's spid/f routed to hdmi, you won't have full hdmi bandwidth but, as far as i know, that's how many cards work...
as far as i can see, you have a 8500 with hdmi out... have you got hdmi audio under windows? last time i tried (but it was 1 year ago) i couldn't hear anything without hooking the internal cables on a gf 9600 i had
and again, with onboard video, it should be 'real' hdmi, when supported

[codexile]

codexile :

I'm also getting that motherboard + E8400 if you get your setup up and running before i do, it would be great if you report back how good it works under linux and with XBMC.

Will do! It all arrives Tuesday so I will keep you in the loop!

So what did you choose to use in terms of a remote?

I'm still considering what case I want, and something that can be powered on via a remote is a big boon for me, and the reason that lots of people choose the Fusion.... but yeah, it is pretty huge for no good reason at all.

Admittedly haven't put a lot of thought in on this one. Maybe I shoulda gone with the Fusion :(

[BLKMGK]

yes i guess you're right, it's not 'real' hdmi audio, it's spid/f routed to hdmi, you won't have full hdmi bandwidth but, as far as i know, that's how many cards work...
as far as i can see, you have a 8500 with hdmi out... have you got hdmi audio under windows? last time i tried (but it was 1 year ago) i couldn't hear anything without hooking the internal cables on a gf 9600 i had
and again, with onboard video, it should be 'real' hdmi, when supported

Honestly the system I'm running has never booted Windows. I primarily run Windows, mostly Vista, on my other systems but this one was built for XBMC and that's all it's run so I do not know how it would work in Windows. I do know it has a SPID/f input though so that would probably need to be hooked up and yeah not "true" HDMI audio so I didn't even bother. Probably should have since it's one less wire but oh well, coax is easy enough to run. The Asus board I linked earlier though has an onboard 9300 so it ought to do "real" HDMI if possible - that board is VERY attractive to me for my next build.

[Snowflake]

I know someone else just posted a similar config, but i'm curious what people think of this one. Near as I can tell it should be 1080P capable, with audio over HDMI, and SPDIF out if I choose to go that route instead (no receiver yet, so for now it'll be HDMI to the TV and it's built-in speakers).

Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Dual Core Processor LGA775 3.16GHZ Wolfdale 1333FSB 6MB Retail - $229.99
Antec Fusion Black 430 HTPC Desktop mATX 1X5.25 2X3.5INT 430W ATX12V Black VFD Volume Control - $219.68
Scythe Mini Ninja Heatpipe Heatsink AM2 LGA775 S478 S754 S939 80MM 2300RPM 32.2CFM 24.2DBA - $36.99
Mushkin XP PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL4-4-4-12 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel Memory Kit - $78.16
Patriot Mini 8GB USB2.0 Flash Memory Drive Orange - $19.99
ASUS P5N7A-VM mATX LGA775 Nforce 730I/GF9300 DDR2 PCI-E16 PCI-E1 2PCI SATA HDMI DVI VGA Motherboard - $166.18

Prices are CDN$, local to Vancouver, BC. Totals out at $750-ish CDN. I'll re-use an IDE DVD-ROM until I convince myself that it's worth buying a Blu-ray player.

E8500 because the 8500 is on sale and actually cheaper than the 8400, at my usual store. I like the idea of the Antec Micro Fusion 350 case instead of the 430, but (a) my usual store doesn't have it in stock, and (b) i'm a little worried about smaller cases not being able to take full-size cards if I need/want to expand in the future. So most of this stuff will be rattling around inside the cavernous 430 case... I can live with that as long as it's mostly quiet.

[spozen]

spozen - define "cracked"? I am aware of what they are doing at Doom9 but nto looked ni at least a few weeks. Last I saw they were playing some vids but not all and getting the keys to play them required hacked firmware and other hoops so not exactly PnP and certainly not yet as easy as Slysoft's software. Speaking of which the new BD+ has them stymied at the moment with something like a month before they are back in business on the new stuff last I checked. It's going to be a running battle no matter what I'm afraid. Anyway, likely OT for this thread but certainly somewhat applicable in that HDMI audio is what you need for the latest CODECS found on these disks. Other than BD I'm not sure where you'd be sourcing stuff with the new uncompressed CODECS and BD on Linux is an issue still <sigh>

I was referring to BD+:

"BD+, the Blu-ray copy protection system that was supposed to last 10 years, has now been solidly broken by a group of doom9 researchers. Earlier, BD+ had been broken by the commercial company SlySoft."

From:
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/01/1728222

And what codecs are you talking about?


Snowflake,

Don't you think 4GB RAM is a bit overkill for XBMC?

[BLKMGK]

Spozen, last I read that thread a week or two ago on Doom9 they still were working the bugs out. I know that right now the Slysoft guys are dead in the water on the NEW BD+ - like on Meet Dave and they say it will be a month or more to get past it. I'm pretty sure that on Nov 1st those guys were still bumping into movies that gave them heartburn. there's not some magic key that is cracking all of those either, they are having to do dumps I'm pretty sure and using modified firmware to get there too I think. Hard to follow to be honest, I know they have written an emulator for the VM that the BlueRay players have onboard and are perfecting it, they use that to output unencrypted video. Still not in a state where it will be in a Linux player anytime soon I think but perhaps for ripping here soon enough for at least some titles.

As for CODECS, most all of the 7.1 stuff is uncompressed. It simply uses too much bandwidth for coax or optical out which is why HDMI video is of interest. so far as I know BD is the only source material using these. Tru-HD and DTS-HD are two of them I think.

4gigs is a bunch of memory but won't hurt and could always be available should the machien be repurposed. Memory has gotten pretty cheap so I am putting bunches ion my machines too <shrug> 2gigs would likely do him just fine though - working for me.

[spozen]

Maybe this is a little OT: So their is no master key to unlock all blu ray movies?

About those codecs you should be avabile to chose audio track like DVD rite? Then you can use 5.1 if you only have SPDIF.

[BLKMGK]

Yeah we're getting OT so I'll try to be brief - no there's no master key and BD+ movies change keys and crypto fairly often, read the thread on Doom9.

Those CODECS don't have to be used, you can certainly use other ones that are 5.1 but if you want "true" sound blah blah then you want true HDMI audio which is what folks in this thread are after I believe - it's not yet well supported in Linux. I personally rip my stuff using eac3to with AC3 sound so I get 5.1 but it would be nice to be able to use 7.1 too - my receiver supports it. It would also be nice to be able to have both 5.1 and 7.1 soundtracks in a single container (MKV?) and allow XBMC to select which one to use - I don't *think* that's possible right now.

Anyway, we're far enough off track - lets try to get back to the hardware stuff. So far as I can tell onboard video chipsets support this best, Intel G45(?), some later ATI, and now it looks like 9x NVIDIA? Do any of the latter two work as PCIe boards for true HDMI audio or is it only the onboard chipsets working?

[succo]

as i said earlier, alsa 1.0.8a should work with nvidia 78/7a, which should cover the 8x series as well... again, i'm talking about onboard chips, i don't think dedicated video cards come with an audio processor, that's why many use the internal cable (hope to be wrong)

[BLKMGK]

Thanks for the clarification Succo, looks like my next build will use an onboard chipset then!

[BLKMGK]

Crossposting from the XBMC dev forum where a baseline reference standard hardware is being discussed.

I put together a NewEgg list using the motherboard above. It's not yet showing as a Public List but I have shared it as "XBMC cheap build". If you have a NewEgg account you can pull it up using this -> https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishLists.aspx?WishListNumber=9999386&WishListTitle=XBMC%20cheap%20build but it may overwrite an existing wish list, at least it seemed to for a friend who tested it. Build doesn't include a remote and includes a CHOICE of HDD - both SATA laptop and desktop SATA drives in sizes easily able to accommodate XBMC or maybe just boot it from a USB stick. Case is cheap, they offer several, the P/S is a brand I've used before but is low capacity - 270Watts and not 80+ rated. I have a slight concern as to the physical size of the DVD burner as in reviews of this case DVD size can apparently be an issue. I actually need to build a system so I may build this one - and test an overclocked Celeron while I'm at it - so perhaps I can provide feedback after. I might use an aftermarket CPU cooler to aid in swapping CPUs as the Intel ones are NOT easy to reuse in my experience but will otherwise try not to deviate.

I desire HDMI audio and 1080 video as do many others so this could be interesting.

Edit: Ordered. I swore my next box would be a Shuttle XPC but the requirement of HDMI audio and graphics I KNOW will work precluded that. <sigh> I did order the $60 2ghz Celeron CPU to test so we'll see how that does in overclocked form. :D

[majorheadache]

Crossposting from the XBMC dev forum where a baseline reference standard hardware is being discussed.

I put together a NewEgg list using the motherboard above. It's not yet showing as a Public List but I have shared it as "XBMC cheap build". If you have a NewEgg account you can pull it up using this -> https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishLists.aspx?WishListNumber=9999386&WishListTitle=XBMC%20cheap%20build ...
I tried to pull the list up but it didn't appear and I couldn't pull it up in public yet either. By "motherboard above", I assume you mean the ASUS P5N7A-VM? I know you've mentioned it a few times, and I too have had my eye on it as it seems like a logical choice. the only thing that gave me pause was this post above:

as i said earlier, alsa 1.0.8a should work with nvidia 78/7a, which should cover the 8x series as well... again, i'm talking about onboard chips, i don't think dedicated video cards come with an audio processor, that's why many use the internal cable (hope to be wrong)

and since the P5N7A-VM has a GeForce 9300, which isn't a 78/7a or 8x series. So my concern is the solution above may not apply. Or did you mean to get another board?

[succo]

again, as far as i know, the p5n7a-vm shuld use MCP7A, so it should be supported in alsa 1.0.8 (which is not i ubuntu repositories and needs to be built)

[tiburcillo]

I was thinking about using a 780G based motherboard. Would an Athlon64 X2 6000+ suffice for 1080p playback? It's still a little bit cheaper than the Intel offerings and you wouldn't need an extra video card.
Btw, does xbmc support realtek HD audio optical SPDIF out for 5.1 audio to my receiver (which happens to be on every 780G motherboard)?

Antec Fusion Remote € 149,-
Gigabyte MA78G-DS3H (AMD 780G) € 85,- OR M3N78-EM (GeForce 8300) whichever has better support
Athlon64 X2 6000+ (2x 3100 MHz) € 89,-
Zalman CNPS 9300 AT (754, 775, 939, 940, AM2) € 39,-
2 GB DDR2-800 Kit (2048 MB) € 29,-
WD Caviar GP (500 GB) € 55,-
Total: € 446,-

[spozen]

I was thinking about using a 780G based motherboard. Would an Athlon64 X2 6000+ suffice for 1080p playback? It's still a little bit cheaper than the Intel offerings and you wouldn't need an extra video card.
Btw, does xbmc support realtek HD audio optical SPDIF out for 5.1 audio to my receiver (which happens to be on every 780G motherboard)?

Antec Fusion Remote € 149,-
Gigabyte MA78G-DS3H (AMD 780G) € 85,- OR M3N78-EM (GeForce 8300) whichever has better support
Athlon64 X2 6000+ (2x 3100 MHz) € 89,-
Zalman CNPS 9300 AT (754, 775, 939, 940, AM2) € 39,-
2 GB DDR2-800 Kit (2048 MB) € 29,-
WD Caviar GP (500 GB) € 55,-
Total: € 446,-


You might be available to play some 1080p movies without dropped frames but definitely not the killa sample, sure you can sit and wait for GPU decoding to come, but nothing is guaranteed. Currently Intel CPUs (E8400!!) are the only option, which sucks because i like the AMD motherboards.

Anyone know if AMD's black edition CPUs would be available to handle the killa sample?

Maybe this one: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ Black Edition (3,2GHz) Box

[BLKMGK]

Yes, I meant the Asus board with onboard 8300 graphics. I guess I will know soon enough if it's supported! I've never built ALSA from scratch so this could be "interesting" but I'm willing to give it a shot. Edit: This may make ALSA easier! http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=962695

What will be most interesting IMO is how the Celeron I've ordered fares:nod: I contend that it's raw clock speed we need and that the Celeron is basically a cache lobotomized C2D. As such clocked to the proper speed, which these Celeron should hit (multiple reports of 100% overclock abound for the slower model) will hopefully give me a $60 1080 KillaSample capable CPU. We'll see, this has NOT yet been tested and it will be possibly as late as next week before I'll know for sure as I'll be out of town last half of this week I think. Stay tuned though and if you don't have to purchase right now wait and see how this fares - my fingers are crossed as I need this build as cheap as possible for a couple of friends.

So far as I know no one has played that sample without dropped frames on an AMD CPU and it's possible the AMD CPU capable of it will cost as much as a lower power\heat Intel:sniffle: I'm certainly interested in hearing about someone doing it!

Hopefully my Newegg list will go Public soon - I've marked it as "shared" and it shows up for me that way. I can certainly mail it out using that feature I guess. <shrug>???

[Geekzilla]

I'm quite happy with the 9300GT based P5N7A-VM, with E7300 cpu. There is a little work involved in getting it working with Live 8.10 (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=41576), but I imagine the next version will have updated audio drivers. BLKMGK, I am looking forward to your report on oc'ing the Celeron with this board. I will be building another P5N7A-VM system with an E8400 in a couple of days.

[spozen]

BLKMGK, Are you using the stock cooler for cooling the celeron?

[BLKMGK]

Spozen it's not yet here:laugh: I do intend to try using the stock cooler yes. Since I'll also have an E8400 here too if I feel that heat is the issue I may try that cooler too as I think it has copper in it - am not sure. I know the Celeron cooler is supposed to be VERY cheesy but I'm trying to keep costs down. If it requires a $30 cooler to get reasonable temps it might not be such a bargain - we'll see so stay tuned!:D

List finally went Public! http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=9999386

[intranix]

I run a celeron e1200 in my htpc, stock cooler. 2.8GHz and temps are fine. 3.2GHz is perfectly stable (Pi for 2 hours no probs) but temps are a little too high for my liking (at full load), but with a half decent cooler ( the intel celeron cooler has a smaller heatsink than a c2d cooler), it should do 3.2 easily, maybe more with solve voltage.

I can run the killa sample in xbmc and no dropped frames. IMO, the celeron is an absolutely amazing chip for the money, it cost me £35 6 months ago, and it's been a real little workhorse of a CPU.

I use an nlited version of XP which uses only 17MB of ram when it's booted up. I only use 512mb ddr2 to make hibernation and resume very quick.

I also use a cheap foxconn motherboard, think it was around £30 at the time.

It has integrated GMA950 graphics which does a grand job to my 720p display.

[BLKMGK]

Ah okay, on Windows and at 720P resolution? I am hoping to be able to play it at full 1080 - we'll see. I think it can do it and it arrived today but other parts in the next few days. I've not gotten to look at the heatsink but I'm told they are beyond cheesy. (lol) Good to hear you've had success, I hope to do so as well so that folks who are willing to overclock don't feel the cost crunch quite so much going Intel. Honestly I only worry about temps when things start to lockup. I've only ever had ONE CPU up and die on me and I've been overclocking since you had to solder in clock crystals from walkie talkies! Hint: 8088s :D

[magho]

I would definitely recommend an nvidia 8x00/9x00-based uATX board at this point. Using the vdpau-patched mplayer my cpu is 97% idle playing Apples 1080p demo trailers. That impressed me a lot, I must say. I know XBMC can't use vdpau yet, but perhaps someday it will. And now that HDMI audio finally works with nvidia, it wins hands down. I have both an AMD 780G and Intel G45 board at home and they can't compete when it comes to image quality and stability.
My setup:
Asus M3N78-EMH HDMI
AMD 4850e with Hiper HFC-20820-C1 cooler
1G RAM
picoPSU-90
No chassi, it's on the floor under a cupboard.
No hdd, it pxe-boots
USB dvd-rw taped to the back of my LCD TV
Consumes about 30W from 220V
/Magnus H

[ziro]

@Magho

What about Killa Sample ? Have you tried playing it ? If so did you experience any dropped frames or glitches ?

Since you speak of the vdpau mplayer patch, that would mean you dont use xbmc with that rig right ?

@general audience

I plan on building a low profile/cost HTPC like many people i guess but it is still hard to find the right config with all the different specs people have here and there. Wouldn't it be possible to consolidate this information and provide some benchmark/test routines to have a clearer view on what's available and what truly works ?

This is not a complaint, just a question to gather some opinions :)

[magho]

@ziro
Yes, I run XBMC and vdr-sxfe on it. I havn't tried vdpau much yet, just wanted to see if it worked.
So I think nvidia has a huge lead over amd/intel right now, and with vdpau they have the potential to stay as my first choice a while. I have moved my 780G board to my desktop PC and my G45 board to my bedroom tv.

[intranix]

Ah okay, on Windows and at 720P resolution? I am hoping to be able to play it at full 1080 - we'll see. I think it can do it and it arrived today but other parts in the next few days. I've not gotten to look at the heatsink but I'm told they are beyond cheesy. (lol) Good to hear you've had success, I hope to do so as well so that folks who are willing to overclock don't feel the cost crunch quite so much going Intel. Honestly I only worry about temps when things start to lockup. I've only ever had ONE CPU up and die on me and I've been overclocking since you had to solder in clock crystals from walkie talkies! Hint: 8088s :D

In theory, outputting to 720p will cause extra load as opposed to outputting to 1080p, as it will have to first decode the full 1080p frame, then resize it?

I would normally only worry if it starts to lockup, but in this case I wanted something stable in the summer (it's winter and fairly cold here right now), and I just wanted to find a sweet spot :)

[ziro]

@intranix

You mentionned you play Killa Sample without any dropped frames but is it with your default cpu speed @ 2.8Ghz or once you overclocked it @ 3.2 Ghz ?

What is your memory speed and CAS btw and your motherboard model ?

@magho

You haven't told me if you tested the killa sample with your setup :D ?

@general audience

I have compiled some of the information found in this thread thanks to majorheadache's previous work (props to him) and started building a spreadsheet with the gathered information. I hope i'll have something "usable" soon enough. To follow the hardware spec thread in the developpment forum which BLKMGK made a reference to, the spreadsheet covers the following information:

- cpu (brand, model, speed, overclocked [y/n])
- motherboard (brand, model, bios)
- ram (brand, frequency, quantity, timings)
- graphics (brand, model, memory, onboard [y/n])
- system (operating system,xbmc release)
- comments (dropped frames, stutter, ...)

I was able to gather most of the information regarding the CPU, motherboard and graphic but for the rest of it, it's still empty. I hope people will be kind enough to provide the missing information yet I won't hassle anyone through messages. So the question is how can this information be shared so that everyone can consult it and/or edit it ?
Maybe a wiki page or something i don't know if it's possible to do it on the XBMC wiki to be honest.

I'll leave this question to be answered by the xbmc staff if they come around :)

[sebj]

@magho

And now that HDMI audio finally works with nvidia,

:eek: Really? If you can spare a couple seconds, how did you do it?

Been trying to get that to work for a while

sebj

[spozen]

ziro

I was thinking maybe we could start a benchmarking thread?

But it seems like the E8400 is still the best CPU for XBMC if you have to buy a copper heatsink for the celeron processor, heatsinks are expansive as hell.

But i could be wrong, we will see when BLKMGK get his system up and running.

BLKMGK, are you going to test the celeron in the case you bought from newegg? It seems like a standard case, this is interesting because if you are using stock cooler + a fairly normal case (not 4 120mm fans), it will be cheaper than buying a E8400 system.

[Matt Devo]

honestly, the killa sampla is really overkill, as you're unlikely to find any video anywhere near as taxing on a system. I think we need some samples that are better representative of expected system load, and leave the killa sampla as a worst case scenario (that's unlikely to ever occur)

[spozen]

honestly, the killa sampla is really overkill, as you're unlikely to find any video anywhere near as taxing on a system. I think we need some samples that are better representative of expected system load, and leave the killa sampla as a worst case scenario (that's unlikely to ever occur)

In the future movies might be encoded like the killa sample.

[ziro]

@spozen

We could make a thread but first we need to define which information is valuable and necessary and then provide a list of samples to be able to benchmark more acurately the configs.

However I don't think it's a good idea to base a benchmark only on the killa sample since it's not well encoded. Nevertheless i agree that some heavy weight samples might be interesting to test for the future yet since we can't forsee it and especially the time when 2160p will become a new reference, i don't feel it's mandatory. In any case i have at my disposal some 100mbps samples if i remember well so tests are possible.

Now from the data i gathered so far, it is true that the E8400 stands out but it's also true that cheaper CPU manage to deal with the killa sample and 1080p in general. I would gladly cut the costs on cpu/mobo to spend it on storage or nicer case for example.

All in all i believe it's necessary somehow to have a little database with this valuable information but first the model has to be drawn. And we can't either drop all the amd based systems since the idea, as i see it, is to provide a benchmark, and the wider its variety, the better. We can't focus on one single cpu/architecture.

[spozen]

@spozen

We could make a thread but first we need to define which information is valuable and necessary and then provide a list of samples to be able to benchmark more acurately the configs.

However I don't think it's a good idea to base a benchmark only on the killa sample since it's not well encoded. Nevertheless i agree that some heavy weight samples might be interesting to test for the future yet since we can't forsee it and especially the time when 2160p will become a new reference, i don't feel it's mandatory. In any case i have at my disposal some 100mbps samples if i remember well so tests are possible.

Now from the data i gathered so far, it is true that the E8400 stands out but it's also true that cheaper CPU manage to deal with the killa sample and 1080p in general. I would gladly cut the costs on cpu/mobo to spend it on storage or nicer case for example.

All in all i believe it's necessary somehow to have a little database with this valuable information but first the model has to be drawn. And we can't either drop all the amd based systems since the idea, as i see it, is to provide a benchmark, and the wider its variety, the better. We can't focus on one single cpu/architecture.

This sounds like an excellent idea but the problem with benchmarking on forums is that it will become like this thread: a lot pages to scroll up and down to search for valuable information. If you create a thread maybe you could manage it to look like this for example:



User:
CPU:
Motherboard:
RAM:
Graphics Card:

etc...




By manage i mean that you edit the first post and update it after every new post.


About the sample, i agree that we should test a few other samples like scene samples from diffrent movies and in diffrent resolutions(720p/1080p). We could also test some other codecs but WMV sucks i think we all can agree on that.

[Matt Devo]

In the future movies might be encoded like the killa sample.

doubtful, as an h264/AVC video stream direct from a bluray disc (no recompression) isn't even as CPU-intensive to decode as the killa sampla.

[TaeOH]

I have been recoding my Blu Ray an HD DVD's to 720p in most cases, I only have a 50 inch 1080p set and sit about 12-15 feet away. I rarely see a difference in detail between 1080p and 720p.

Can I assume something like an AMD 6000+ should be able to handle them? I have been looking at upgrading my Media Server so I could run XBMC, but really want to keep the cost down.

I figure if I ever get a bigger set, I could just watch the disk to get the full 1080p. I do have some 1080p content on my server now, basically AVC Blu Ray's that are 20gb or less. It was just quicker not to recode and I have plenty of drive space currently.

[spozen]

doubtful, as an h264/AVC video stream direct from a bluray disc (no recompression) isn't even as CPU-intensive to decode as the killa sampla.

You need more processing power for compressed video than for uncompressed.

TaeOH, 6000+ will be enough for 720p and most 1080p (from what i've heard).

[Matt Devo]

You need more processing power for compressed video than for uncompressed.


I consider a 45Mbps AVC bluray video stream to be compressed. Rephrase perhaps? =)

[TaeOH]

You need more processing power for compressed video than for uncompressed.

TaeOH, 6000+ will be enough for 720p and most 1080p (from what i've heard).

That does seem to be the case from what I have been read. Since I have PS3's handling my HD content now, they could always be a backup if I got into trouble with a movie.

Thank you.

Right now I am just looking at replacing my 4200+ and Abit AT8 32X with a 6000+ and ASUS M3A78-EM, I have a spare 1gb stick of DDR2 1066 too add in. If this works out I can see myself moving this to a Silverstone HTPC case and putting the 4200+ back into service as just a server as it is now.

[BLKMGK]

Wow, this grew! :)

For storing off a spreadsheet you might look at Google Apps, I have seen shared spreadsheets done there. I think databases might be possible too, am not positive.

Case
My intent is to test this in the normal(ish) case yes. I have a spiffy HTPC case already in use. It's been a PITA - the LCD requires patched drivers, the IRDA receiver requires patched drivers, the bottom of it had to be drilled to allow air to exit the P/S, and the side vent was noisy - not the fan but the air rushing through the silly vent! Oh and it was pricey but quite pretty, shame the LCD cannot be read from more thna 2foot away even if it worked for me. I never stick DVD in it except to load software and it could easily be shoved behind something with the USB IRDA receiver in view for all I care. It would work just as well so I'm saving like $100 on this next build by using a normal EASY to work in case that I can hide. Or I hope easy to work in, I aim to find out tomorrow when I pick it up and begin assembly. I hope it will be pretty quiet - we'll see.

Heatsinks
I intend to try the stock CPU cooler first. If that doesn't work I will have to ponder some, maybe try an OEM cooler from a C2D on it. I really tend to prefer the Zalman copper units and have a low profile "flower" looking one in my HTPC case. My E8400 has one of their BIG ones - love it! But for this next build cost is an issue. I will try stock cooler and stock grease, then maybe C2D cooler, then maybe silver grease. My goal is Killasample with no dropped frames.

Benchmark
As for that as a benchmark... I have said it before that on my own encodings I saw dropped frames during pan shots that had lots of detail like jungle foliage. King Kong, encoded by me not some downloaded thing, had issues noticeable to my eye. Until I hit 3Ghz and at that point roughly things stopped dropping frames and Killa' played well.

Now, if someone wants to benchmark sure I'm all for it but BEFORE you do that choose a standard to go against. I agree Killa' is over the top so try encoding that SAME scene from the BBC Earth series with other settings - watch as it beats the snot out of your system. Yeah, my encoding of that does it too!

You're down to encoding settings to argue about. I tried the AVS "recommended" settings for BD recently, the ones that will supposedly give me a profile that can be hardware accelerated someday. I ended up with a TINY file that looked so bad I couldn't stand it. I do not know WTF but the settings were awful so I must have done something wrong. I'll try again later but for now I continue to use my proven settings - Dark Knight will get muxxed in a few days when I get home! :D

I'm certainly willing to share my settings for meGUI but know that that they are a bit extreme so I don't want to hear grief - maybe constructive grief if it results in smaller files w\no quality loss. I see ZERO artifacts in my encodes, ever, and reduce size by about 40% usually, sometimes more. If I had an easy way to get an original copy of just that single scene that Killa' was made from to encode with my settings I'd be willing to share it too.

Bottom line - be careful you do not choose something too easy. While doing so would make many AMD owners happy it would mislead people - especially people who encode their own and don't download stuff off the 'net. Apple trailers for instance don't even make my machine breathe heavy and *I* wouldn't accept that as a reasonable benchmark. <shrug>

Oh and I'm not a video guru, I just want the video to look good and I can spot artifacts, tearing, and dropped frames. I'm critical of that and hate it. I'm only building my second XBMC machine because my aTV drops frames on downloaded 720P TV shows :(

[TaeOH]

@BLKMGK

I would love to know how you encode. Currently I use the DXVA profiles and do constant quality 18. Most everything satisfies me with those settings and the PS3 can play DXVA profiles.

[magho]

@magho



:eek: Really? If you can spare a couple seconds, how did you do it?

Been trying to get that to work for a while

sebj

Nothing fancy, really. Installed ubuntu intrepid (no desktop or wm, just X), compiled alsa-driver 1.0.18a and nvidia 180.11 and it just worked. What nvidia chipset did you try with?

@ziro. Tried killa sample last night and it didn't play.

[sebj]

@magho

I have the integrated 7100 nvidia part on a gigabyte board.

I used a script from the ubuntu forums that downloads an compiles the latest alsa

I'm running the current driver 177.82 from nvidia(ie not the ubuntu one), is the hdmi functionality a new feature in the beta driver by any chance?

I think I'll try when i get home from work, you never know.

Thanks:)

sebj

[magho]

@sebj
HDMI audio was introduced on the 177.xx driver so that should work. I'm not sure about alsa support for 7-series cards though.
"aplay -l" should give you this line if alsa supports it:
card 0: NVidia [HDA NVidia], device 3: NVIDIA HDMI [NVIDIA HDMI]

I have a 7050 myself but I don't think I have tried a recens alsa with that one. Best bet would be to check out the alsa release notes/mailing list.

[sebj]

@Magho

I had that line before getting the new alsa with "aplay -L" but it went away, maybe I have to recompile the nvidia drivers again.

Will check the alsa information too.

Thanks again!

sebj

[spozen]

I consider a 45Mbps AVC bluray video stream to be compressed. Rephrase perhaps? =)

Sorry i meant that some codecs uses moore compression wich equals higher processor usage.

Maybe we can use a wiki page for benchmarking?

[magho]

@sebj
Your nvidia drivers don't affect aplay at all from what I know. If you saw device 3 there before, the alsa part was ok.

[magho]

Sorry i meant that some codecs uses moore compression wich equals higher processor usage.


Ehh,what do you mean exactly?
Compression factor = (uncompressed bitrate) / (compressed bitrate)
i.e more compression = lower bitrate which generally means lower cpu load

[spozen]

Ehh,what do you mean exactly?
Compression factor = (uncompressed bitrate) / (compressed bitrate)
i.e more compression = lower bitrate which generally means lower cpu load

How come i can play a DVD on my Xbox but not a X264 rip of the DVD?

[magho]

When comparing cpu load I of course meant using the same encoder. MPEG2 is a lot less cpu intensive than h264.

[spozen]

What causing the CPU load on the killa sample? Do you have any specs on the clip?

[succo]

@Magho

I had that line before getting the new alsa with "aplay -L" but it went away, maybe I have to recompile the nvidia drivers again.

Will check the alsa information too.

Thanks again!

sebj

i too have that line on 1.0.17 and 8500gt (without hdmi)... it means nothing
you have to see it on aplay -l (lowercase) for it to work, and it doesn't in 7xxx series, as the only nvidia supported is MCP78/7a and 7xxx is somewhere lower, i guess 73 or something like that... again, hdmi audio support for MCP73 should come with kernel 2.6.28, which would make the hdmi port recognized, so we'll have (hopefully) to wait for ubuntu 9.04

[magho]

What causing the CPU load on the killa sample? Do you have any specs on the clip?

This is what ffmpeg says about it:
Duration: 00:00:22.9, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 35098 kb/s
Stream #0.0: Video: h264, yuv420p, 1920x1080 [PAR 0:1 DAR 0:1], 23.98 tb(r)
Stream #0.1: Audio: 0x2000, 48000 Hz, 5:1, 448 kb/s

[spozen]

Im going to upload some scene samples that you can test here:
http://www.mediafire.com/rabbit

BLKMGK, would be great if you can upload some samples from your encodes.

[sebj]

@succo

again, hdmi audio support for MCP73 should come with kernel 2.6.28, which would make the hdmi port recognized, so we'll have (hopefully) to wait for ubuntu 9.04

Thanks for the info, you just saved me some time there:laugh:, guess we'll have to wait then.

Hardware is rolling out fast these days, software has a rough time keeping up.

I guess I'll add this to the list of things in the queue alongside myth 0.22 for HDPVR support!

thanks for the help guys :)

sebj

[BLKMGK]

@BLKMGK

I would love to know how you encode. Currently I use the DXVA profiles and do constant quality 18. Most everything satisfies me with those settings and the PS3 can play DXVA profiles.

Will be a few days, If I do not post on this by Sunday ping me via PM. I am not at home right now and won't be for a few more days - busy weekend too. <sigh> I won't detail my whole rip process but the short of it is that I use AnyDVD-HD, eac3to to a MKIV, graphedit, and meGUI. meGUI has a custom profile I built - set to "stun":D Not looked at the DXVA stuff but I could probably try them.

I would be happy to upload some short clips. However mine are all in MKIV containers and I'll be danged if I know how to snip out say a 5min portion for easy viewing. If someone has suggestions I'll do it!:oo:

Got a good look at the Celeron heatsink vs the C2D I've got. Now I'm pretty sure my 65nm C2D had a copper core, this 45nm 2.66 does NOT. The Celeron heatsink's fins swirl the opposite direction from this Celeron. The C2D has a small "foot" who's bottom is milled flat. The Celeron has no foot and is flatter, the base is cast and not milled flat at all - VERY rough! Just lapping it would probably help a great deal. I will try it stock out of the box first with stock grease but as othershave noted the Celeron sink is not exactly a piece of art!:shocked: The case I ordered is tiny but not yet out of the box so more later. The motherboard has near every bell and whistle you could want to include that quickboot stuff that has skype etc. in the BIOS. Stay tuned, slowly getting there.

[BLKMGK]

Building this box now, it's nearly 3am here... Some things to note so far 1) This case has a 20pin power connector, the motherboard wants 24. However it is booting fine <shrug> 2) This power supply has NO SATA power connectors - grr! 3) Case is SMALL and actually easy to work with. For like $60 I am impressed, just wish the P/S better supported me - it's a weird small one too so replacing it might not be a cakewalk.

Celeron installed, nothing special done to it. OOB FSB is 800 I think, I now have it at 1100 and it's booting at 3.01ghz, I have just installed Ubuntu 8.04 and done a full update - running smooth. I have yet to install video drivers, Lirc, or XBMC but am getting there. Won't be done tonight but wow so far I'm in shock at how smooth this CPU has overclocked! The 45nm 2.66Ghz C2D I bought may go into my existing HTPC instead of this one if this CPU can hack Killa'sample.

Stay tuned!

[Asswipe44]

Relieved to know someone else out there is building the machine I need; Great timing! I will pay attention and good luck on your setup.

[BLKMGK]

@sebj
HDMI audio was introduced on the 177.xx driver so that should work. I'm not sure about alsa support for 7-series cards though.
"aplay -l" should give you this line if alsa supports it:
card 0: NVidia [HDA NVidia], device 3: NVIDIA HDMI [NVIDIA HDMI]

I have a 7050 myself but I don't think I have tried a recens alsa with that one. Best bet would be to check out the alsa release notes/mailing list.

Okay, just so I am clear - I need the latest NVIDIA drivers with a 1.77.xx version to do HDMI AUDIO? If so I would be VERY happy for someone to point out to me how to get those drivers installed on Ubuntu :stare: ENVY, which has never failed me, isn't up to date in that regard and has installed an older driver. <sigh> Naturally their included Install shell script wants the X server killed and I'm too n00b to know how to do it!

Currently I am using the tutorial on this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=962695) page to load the latest stable ALSA audio. Currently I am seeing some compile errors :shocked: This appears to be known about on page 7 and I am working to do it manually, whee!

I have not yet tried to play a video however I CAN tell you that the machine stayed up running all night, okay idle, at 3ghz in a HOT room and was fine this morning!:cool: I have compiled the latest SVN of Ubuntu and am getting the environment comfy while I get sound and video setup. Not yet tried my remote but Lirc setup was easy since the remote was one of their supported MCE ones. When I put some batteries in it I will test:rolleyes:

More later, should be able to at least test playback tonight for framedrops on Killa' :nod:

[spozen]

BLKMGK

Why not check temps? idle and running super pi (any thing with full load)
Anyway can you give me the exact name of the model you are using? Maybe this is provided in some pages back but im to lazy to look for it. Thanks!

[succo]

Naturally their included Install shell script wants the X server killed and I'm too n00b to know how to do it!it's /etc/init.d/gdm stop (if under ubuntu) or kdm stop (if under kubuntu)

177.80 is what comes within intrepid repositories, anyway i think 173.x should work with the correct alsa... again, the 7 series should be a no-go

[Asswipe44]

Just a quick question and it may be a dumb one: Does a 480p or 720p video automatically get upscaled to 1080p in XBMC if your resolution is at 1080p with "Best Available" option set in the "Video Resolution" section?

I know the Xbox upscales 480 to 720, sometimes even to 1080, pretty nice.

[BLKMGK]

Spozen - recommend a program to check temps? XBMC shows it blank and I'm not running Winders so I'm all ears on a good Ubuntu\Linux program to check hardware temps!

Succo - not running Intrepid, running Hardy. I am pretty sure ENVY installs something earlier than what you said I needed but the version isn't in front of me ATM and I'd be happy to be wrong. I believe I have the latest ALSA installed now, am going to go plug it into the TV in a moment. Appreciate the command to stop the window manager, I had tried another that was posted and it was a no-go so fingers crossed that will work if I need to compile the latest ones. Edit: EnvyNG installs 173.14.12

Anyway, going to go plug this in and hope to NOT wrestle too badly with my X config. Vizio is a PITA with their EDID data, may have to just steal the file from my box but I'd liek to try and do this one from scratch. <shrug> More as I get it.

Edit: Video setup worked great, no dorking with X config files - I am in shock! Lirc also working fine as usual with this hardware. Video plays back too fast though and I have no sound yet. Yes I know the two are related and I am working on it. So far though this is working smoothly, cannot wait to solve sound and play Killa'!

[kmkarim]

Hrm, I just got into the XMBC scene and im planning to build one soon and im just wondering. For these systems that are being outlined are you guys storing the HD rips on the same computer or on a networked server?

Thanks,

kmkarim

[falc410]

So the gist of this thread is that there is currently no AMD system which can play 1080p (killer sample) without hick'ups or dropped frames?

And I can't go lower then 3.0 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo (E8400) ? This cpu is still quite expensive, I was really hoping for 2.66 Ghz to play 1080p material :(

[Matt Devo]

Does a 480p or 720p video automatically get upscaled to 1080p in XBMC if your resolution is at 1080p with "Best Available" option set in the "Video Resolution" section?


Yes, everything gets upsampled to the output resolution in use

Are you guys storing the HD rips on the same computer or on a networked server?


NAS

So the gist of this thread is that there is currently no AMD system which can play 1080p (killer sample) without hick'ups or dropped frames?

And I can't go lower then 3.0 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo (E8400) ? This cpu is still quite expensive, I was really hoping for 2.66 Ghz to play 1080p material :(

do you care about watching movies, or playing the killa sampla w/o dropped frames? If the former, an AMD X2/5000 or better will suffice.

a 2.5GHz C2D will play 99% of 1080p material flawlessly, but will drop a few frames on the killa sampla. Most C2D's will overclock to 3.0GHz or more, so buying an E7200/7300 is a good option as well (I have an E7200 @ 3.2GHz).

[spozen]

Spozen - recommend a program to check temps? XBMC shows it blank and I'm not running Winders so I'm all ears on a good Ubuntu\Linux program to check hardware temps!


Lm sensors, heres a tutorial: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780

Hrm, I just got into the XBMC scene and im planning to build one soon and im just wondering. For these systems that are being outlined are you guys storing the HD rips on the same computer or on a networked server?

Thanks,

kmkarim

I store my rips on a server/old computer with Pentium 3 1GHz + 384MB RAM running Debian works great with NFS and samba. I currently running 100 mbit in my network but im gonna upgrade to 1Gbit as soon as i get my HTPC up and running. I have been running 1080p clips with no dropped frames on windows so i think 100Mbit is sufficient. Also the popcorn hour only have a 100Mbit Ethernet port and that machine can play 1080p without any frame drops.


So the gist of this thread is that there is currently no AMD system which can play 1080p (killer sample) without hick'ups or dropped frames?

And I can't go lower then 3.0 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo (E8400) ? This cpu is still quite expensive, I was really hoping for 2.66 Ghz to play 1080p material :(

Once we get the benchmarking thread/db/thingy up all your questions will be answered. Also this celeron seems to be OK.

[BLKMGK]

So the gist of this thread is that there is currently no AMD system which can play 1080p (killer sample) without hick'ups or dropped frames?

And I can't go lower then 3.0 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo (E8400) ? This cpu is still quite expensive, I was really hoping for 2.66 Ghz to play 1080p material :(

Wow, so that whole part above about the $60 Celeron I'm running going 3ghz and looking like a good option escaped you? Or the 2.66ghz 65nm C2D in my sig overclocked to 3ghz? Read any of the other threads?

No, so far no AMD has played that clip smoothly that I know of. And while it could be argued that the clip in question is overkill I have seen hiccups in other more normal vids prior to clocking up to 3ghz - I've said this only about a dozen times in various places now. <sigh> If I can figure out a way to easily edit some clips of my own and a place to upload them I will when time allows but IMO go for a CPU that will decode Killer and nothing else will slow you down ever. A 2.5ghz 45nm C2D will clock 3ghz, hell a slower one probably would too. You need not spend tons and this Celeron may work out too - it's shocking me how fast it's running! BTW E8400 clock to nearly 4ghz pretty easily - overkill to say the least.

Kmarkim - I play all of my encoded video off of a server. However this latest build I'm working on won't be able to do that as it's for someone else. What I will be using for this one is a portable 500gig HDD via USB. It automounts and is portable so I can bring over media for my girlfriend and I to watch - once I figure out sound issues.