LCARS Skin Development for XBMC, help is wanted!

[NickyZero]

Hello everyone, long time user of XBMC, new to posting on your forum.

Just letting people know that i have begun developing a LCARS skin for XBMC, as I noticed many requests, and people talking about an LCARS interface.

This however will be done in 2 stages;

Firstly a "draft" theme, modelled around PMIII (PM-LCARS(working title)) as I am fairly new to skinning

Secondly, A stand-alone skin, constructed entirely from scratch not using any of PMIII (LCARSMediaCentre(Working title))

I have been given permission from Sean P. Stephenson of lcarscom.net to use any resources I require from his site, and am hopefully going to have PM-LCARS at a usable state by the middle of may (with permission of PMIII's owner)

If you do not know what LCARS is, I suggest a visit to Sean's site www.lcarscom.net (http://www.lcarscom.net).

Now, I have a few questions for the experts here,

Firstly, can an item have 2 icons set instead of one? For instance a program view having default.tbn as well as the saveimage.xbx.

Secondly, can the autoexec.py be configured to run 2 items one after another rather than similtaniously? E.g. Startup video THEN m3u playlist?

I should have some pictures of my current progress soon.

[agathorn]

It was inevitable.

[NickyZero]

yeah, well like I said, I've browsing this forum for ages, and when I saw the LCARS threads i was really looking forward to it. But I suppose the best way to get a skin is to make it!

Oh, my other question, can you have skin specific splash screens? If so how?

[jaredharley]

Oh, my other question, can you have skin specific splash screens? If so how?

Are you referring to the T3CH splash that shows up when you boot XBMC? If so, that's as simple as changing the splash.png file in \media

[timdog82001]

hahaha. i actually did a ton of work on an LCARS skin before i left for spain, but my hard drive died so i lost some of the work, but i still have most of the psd's and the skin itself on the hard drive of the xbox i think. for the intro video then audio thing, you can just use an onfocus activation in the startup xml to activate the video, and then have the music start after that. Really though, for the music, for it to be proper, you would need a sort of ambient or background music option added to xbmc because as soon as anybody listens to music it wouldn't come backon anymore.

[agathorn]

I wish you the best of luck with this and will be watching it closely. With that said however, I want you to go into it with something in mind: Almost every LCARS skin of anything never works well. The reason being that LCARS was designed to be visually attractive, not functional. Any "real" LCARS type interface will have to stray from the LCARS design in order to be functional.

[NickyZero]

I wish you the best of luck with this and will be watching it closely. With that said however, I want you to go into it with something in mind: Almost every LCARS skin of anything never works well. The reason being that LCARS was designed to be visually attractive, not functional. Any "real" LCARS type interface will have to stray from the LCARS design in order to be functional.

I completely agree, most LCARS interfaces i've seen have been flash based, but, as far as I know, XBMC can't be "flash skinned" we'll have to make do,

[jochenz]

I cant waite to see some screen shots. Sounds cool!

[Killarny]

Hey NickyZero, I'm interested in seeing what you've got so far.. I've been working on my own LCARS skin off and on for a while now, and if our ideas match up well, perhaps we could discuss together.

[NickyZero]

Hey NickyZero, I'm interested in seeing what you've got so far.. I've been working on my own LCARS skin off and on for a while now, and if our ideas match up well, perhaps we could discuss together.

Yeah, I'd find it usefull, Im fairly new to XBMC skinning, I've done evoX, and UX skins before (I suppose UX stands for more, seeing how its also XML based)

So far its mostly graphic switches for PMIII until I understand more of the skin, but I hope to seperate it from PMIII asap

[NickyZero]

Ok heres my first mockup for the seperate skin (the non-pm based)

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs25/f/2008/119/b/b/LCARS_XBMC_APPLICATION_MOCKUP_by_zerostarTM.jpg

The info is actually (in concept) a custom default.tbn, with an overlay on top (bars around the screenshot and the "Holodeck analysis").

I also wanted to give more of the skin an LCARS/Trek feel, so im going to "re-label" some buttons (if you see what i mean, just the button title, nothing else so now confusement), for instance "View: type" becomes "Cycle view mode" (yeah, its crap but what can you do?) Gamesaves becomes "Memory Banks", XLink Becomes "Hail networks" and the whole Games/Applications section becomes "Holodeck" (I thought it was a cool idea at least...)

[timdog82001]

you know I had a lot of ideas for my LCARS skin to give it that authentic and wonderfully dorky star trek feel, many of which I already implemented. I'd be willing to share what I have and what ideas I had if you're interested.

[NickyZero]

you know I had a lot of ideas for my LCARS skin to give it that authentic and wonderfully dorky star trek feel, many of which I already implemented. I'd be willing to share what I have and what ideas I had if you're interested.

I'd appreciate anything anyone has to offer, the only semi-relivant skinning knowledge I have is UnleashX (also skins in xml, but a single skin.xml file).

At the moment i'm just comiling some images.

Oh, BTW, I nearly have ambient audio sorted :oo: but theres just a few hiccups left to sort...

Its an extremely rough way of doing things, but instead of having a half-second "blip" Sound for, say, cursor... you have a "blip" and a 30 second ambience clip. Which does, in effect, work.

However...

The down side is, you get a small, half second gap of silence between each reload of a sound file (I.e. scrolling through a list *Blip* *ambience* *SILENCE* *blip* *ambience*), Not a majorly big problem, but would be good to sort out.

Secondly, if you have the LCARS sound pack active (for testing I just made a pack, similar to "bursting bubbles") You cant change skin, as the skin tries to reload, whilst playing what XBMC thinks is just the *blip* for cursor/select when its really playing a 30 second ambience track, and ultimatly crashes.
(sorry if that made no sense...)

[Killarny]

So far, I've been keeping fairly private about my skin efforts, partly due to embarrassment of my lack of graphics skills. But, I do have a specific philosophy that I am following with my skin, which I'll describe here a little.

I've noticed that many LCARS implementations (almost all of the websites that I've seen as well) have useless animations and sound effects littered all over their interfaces. Take lcars.org.uk (http://www.lcars.org.uk) for example: first it makes you sit through an animated video that is loud and obtrusive, and really doesn't functionally do anything; then once you get to the main page of the site, there is no clear indication of which parts of it are links to click on, and the elements don't follow any sort of recognizable color scheme.

While this makes things look good when you stand back and glance at it, the result is not very easy to use for more than novelty factor. As Agathorn mentioned, LCARS usually doesn't work very well in reality. So my efforts thusfar have been aimed at making a skin which is first and foremost just as functionally useful as any other XBMC skin, and secondly follows LCARS conventions (such as they are).

Also of importance to me is avoiding useless graphics and animations. Every piece of text on my design actually gives you relevant information, and everything that looks like a button to activate is actually a button.

For colors, I'm using the color standards from lcarsdeveloper.com/ (http://www.lcarsdeveloper.com/) in the multidisplay category (oddly enough, they publish this color standard, but don't seem to follow it on their own site).

[Killarny]

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/908/lcarsvideowindowwip2008io3.th.png (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lcarsvideowindowwip2008io3.png)

[LittleBear1981]

Hi, i would like to help out if i can. I am not good with graphics, however i have been skimming through the xml files to see how they work. I am interested in trying the LCARS skin "as is" on my XBMC-Linux. Can we get an alpha? with the soundpack?

[Killarny]

My skin is only about halfway usable. There are no dialogs implemented at all, but all the windows are done. (with the exception of the xlink kai stuff, as I'm not even sure that anyone still uses xlink, so it's really low on the priority list)

I still have tons of tweaking left to do, but my free time is pretty much 100% dedicated to finding a job before I go completely destitute :/

I don't want to hijack NickyZero's thread; he and I haven't formally combined our efforts yet. (I probably shouldn't have posted the screenshot in your thread either, sorry NickyZero) So I'll restrict my comments to design issues which NickyZero can contemplate if he desires :)

[NickyZero]

Its ok Killarny, We do need to discuss our "collabing". And dont worry about hijacking, This is a "LCARS development" Thread, not a "NickyZero's LCARS" thread, so anyone whose done any LCARS related thing, is welcome to post and discuss.

@littlebear1981: At the moment, the sound pack is EXTREMELY unstable, and im still trying too work out a few bugs, (not helped by blowing my speakers the other day :( )

As for an alpha release, im afraid not, its not even anywhere near alpha at the mo, its just an assortment of graphics and hopes.

Also, I have a quick question for anyone who knows scripts well (I may post this in script development too), with regards to "ambient audio", would resumeX be any good?

[Killarny]

Its ok Killarny, We do need to discuss our "collabing".

Yeah, I've been away for a while, busy with moving and trying unsuccessfully to find a job in my new area. But I do want to continue to discuss stuff - even if we don't end up combining our skins, we can all benefit from the discussion!

And dont worry about hijacking, This is a "LCARS development" Thread, not a "NickyZero's LCARS" thread, so anyone whose done any LCARS related thing, is welcome to post and discuss.

w00t!

Also, I have a quick question for anyone who knows scripts well (I may post this in script development too), with regards to "ambient audio", would resumeX be any good?

I don't know about ResumeX in particular, but I suspect that using a script for ambient audio would only work until the user launched another script - I'll have to do some investigating though. I could definately write a script for you that would loop an audio file, but I don't know how it would co-exist with the rest of xbmc. For example, what happens when the user plays a music file?

[NickyZero]

I don't know about ResumeX in particular, but I suspect that using a script for ambient audio would only work until the user launched another script - I'll have to do some investigating though. I could definately write a script for you that would loop an audio file, but I don't know how it would co-exist with the rest of xbmc. For example, what happens when the user plays a music file?

Well i say ResumeX, Because I noticed (all be it by accident) that once a YTube vid had played, it "resumed" playing my startup m3u.

Maybe combining ResumeX with a skin based m3u file is the key?

Hope that makes sense.

[Killarny]

I've packaged together an early alpha of my LCARS skin for anyone to check out. Please keep in mind that this is unfinished and still very much up in the air, but any comments or suggestions are welcomed!

Currently, I'm developing the skin in 720p, so the font might be a tad squished in any other resolution.

LCARS_2008-05-13.zip (http://www.box.net/shared/dv2ihckkk0)

[NickyZero]

I've packaged together an early alpha of my LCARS skin for anyone to check out. Please keep in mind that this is unfinished and still very much up in the air, but any comments or suggestions are welcomed!

Currently, I'm developing the skin in 720p, so the font might be a tad squished in any other resolution.

LCARS_2008-05-13.zip (http://www.box.net/shared/dv2ihckkk0)

Nice job, Killarny, you beat me to alpha stage!:laugh:

Ill check this out when I get home in about 2 hours time,

BTW, If it helps I should get into XBMC's IRC Chan Between 1230 - 1630, and 1800 - 2200 (Thats GMT btw.)

[NineT9mustang]

Thought you guys might wanna check this out, kinda cool!

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/15/lcars-esque-touchscreen-controls-home-excites-trekkies/

[NickyZero]

Thought you guys might wanna check this out, kinda cool!

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/15/lcars-esque-touchscreen-controls-home-excites-trekkies/

HA! thats awsome!

oh and killarny, Havent had a chance to test your skin yet, Forgot about how bugged my PC Build is. But from what I can see it looks good.

[Nuka1195]

I'm going to remove the lcars skin (unfinished) from the Apple Movie Trailers script. if you want it let me know and i can save it for you.

How is the skin coming?

[Killarny]

I don't think I've made any progress on my skin since posting the alpha earlier in this thread. I hope to get back to it soon, but I've been working three jobs trying to make ends meet, so that leaves very little time for fun :/

Nuka, I think that AMT skin is in the repository, isn't it? If so, we should always be able to retrieve it from older revisions if you delete it. (or am I wrong?)

[NickyZero]

Sorry been a way for a while guys, been caught up in a few other projects around the net, as well as job hunting, but I think im about 80% off of figuring some kinda ambient audio idea, and 60% away from an alpha,

@Nuka; any chance you could send me a copy of the skin, it'll be a usefull resource to examine

[Nuka1195]

Killarny true, didn't think about that. NickyZero, if you can't grab it from svn, i will package it up and email it to you.

Looking forward to the skin :)

http://xbmc-scripting.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Apple%20Movie%20Trailers/resources/skins/LCARS

[Gamester17]

@NickyZero and killarny, please let us know if you two (and later maybe others as well) would like to coolaberate in the making of a LCARS open source skin and you would maybe then like to join the official XBMC Skinning Project (https://sourceforge.net/projects/xboxmediacenter) (a sub-project of XBMC for skinners and their open source skins).

As long you agree to not violate any copyrights and ask before you modify anyone else's skin in the SVN (or wait until you have been asked) then register accounts on SourceForge.net if you do not already have one and PM me the usernames so I can add you to the project with full write access to the SVN and the trackers (for bugs, patches and requests).

[Nuka1195]

maybe killarny too, then all three could :)

[Killarny]

Personally, I'd love to submit my work to the repository, but I wanted to get it in a more usable state first (at least, for more than one resolution).

Now that you mention copyrights, I'm not sure about the font and sounds that I'm using - I downloaded them from one of the lcars resource sites out there, but I don't know what the real license status is on them. However, all my graphics are original.

[NickyZero]

Personally, I'd love to submit my work to the repository, but I wanted to get it in a more usable state first (at least, for more than one resolution).

Now that you mention copyrights, I'm not sure about the font and sounds that I'm using - I downloaded them from one of the lcars resource sites out there, but I don't know what the real license status is on them. However, all my graphics are original.

I Agree with regards to getting it into a Stable state first, As for copyrights, Don't worry I have written (well, emailed) consent from the owner of lcarscom.net (http://lcarscom.net) to use any resources from his site, on the condition we show him the final result :laugh:

[NickyZero]

Forgive Double Post (This forum really needs an edit button!)

But a thought occurs to me,

Seeing other people talking about cloning existing skins, and the legallities (sp?) of it; Can we actually make & release an LCARS based skin?

Although I have been given consent from the owner of LCARSCOM (see previous posts) we don't have the consent of Paramount, who legally own Star Trek and therefore LCARS in name and probably design?

Can someone clear this up before we end up in some kinda law-suit?

[Killarny]

That's a good point. I would hope that these types of efforts are seen as homage rather than infringement, but who knows.

I remember similar concerns over OSX related skins a long time ago; didn't Apple try to sue a bunch of people for making OSX visual styles for Windows? I assume that Apple ended up losing that battle, judging from all the OSX skins that people made (and still make).

Perhaps this situation is similar?

[Gamester17]

As far as I can find out, no one has ever been sued for cloning/replicating LCARS, ...without trekkies (devoted StarTrek fans) the StarTrek franchise would not be as big as it is today, so I am sure that Paramount do not mind people cloning/replicating LCARS for non-profit purposes like skinning free software.

Like I wrote here before: http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=110on a side note, most non-software companies will probably give you their permission to use their images/pictures if they used as non-commercial promo for their products. Like for example, I'm sure that car manufacturers, comics publishers, or movie producers/directors, etc. have would be glad if you use their pictures in a skin as long as it just promotes their products in a positive way.

:cool:

[NickyZero]

As far as I can find out, no one has ever been sued for cloning/replicating LCARS, ...without trekkies (devoted StarTrek fans) the StarTrek franchise would not be as big as it is today, so I am sure that Paramount do not mind people cloning/replicating LCARS for non-profit purposes like skinning free software.

Like I wrote here before: http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=110

:cool:

Cheers for that Gamester, If anyone from Paramount starts on me, I'll be sure to send them your way :laugh:

[Gamester17]

Sure please do, but don't worry, big company lawers always send a nicely frased cease and desist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cease_and_desist) e-mail/letter first, kindly asking you to stop before the take any legal actions. We only had that happen once before, and that was for the HP media center clone skin a few years back, (note that it was a commercial media center software which was was cloned which is a huge difference).

[Jezz_X]

Yeah as long as you not actually directly ripping the graphics and sounds from their videos and other media they have released and making them yourself or getting them from other people who have done so its useally fine.
Take the mc360 skin for example Microsoft had no problem with it as long as we made it all ourselves and didn't just rip their images from the 360 hdd

[timdog82001]

Are you guys still trying to work on this? I finally rescued the skin files from my partially completed LCARS skin from over a year ago and it's kind of reignited my desire to make this skin. I'd be happy to work with you guys if you're interested.

[Killarny]

I would like to work on it, but my jobs don't leave me very much free time anymore :/

It's too bad nobody has made a nice skin editor yet - things would go a lot faster if I didn't have to relearn the xml format every time I want to sit down for an hour to work on my skin.

timdog82001, you or anyone else is free to use my skin code and graphics if you wish. I'm probably not going to have any significant free time for the next few months, but I'll be happy to chime in with help when I can. Maybe we can get a skin to the point where it can be 'good enough' for the skinning svn, and then we can just work on it as time permits afterwards?

[timdog82001]

Yeah, I don't have a ton of free time with school, but I'd still like to make this a reality eventually. Would you (and NickyZero, if he's still around) like to meet up in irc or msn messenger or something and talk about it?

[Killarny]

That's fine with me.. I'm almost always lurking in the #xbmc* channels on freenode - I'll keep an eye out :)

[migueld]

Sorry been a way for a while guys, been caught up in a few other projects around the net, as well as job hunting, but I think im about 80% off of figuring some kinda ambient audio idea, and 60% away from an alpha,

Hah the ambient audio, that'd be great :)

[timdog82001]

are you "killa" in irc?

[Killarny]

Wow, I've been busy lately... sorry timdog. I am still interested in collaborating, and thinking about taking up Gamester17 on his offer to put my skin on the repository (if it still stands) as I think that would allow more people to check it out, and encourage development.

[timdog82001]

no worries as I've been incredibly busy as well with midterms and spending all my free time trying finish getting my new linux box perfected. I'd be interested on working on this sometime, but probably not till after christmas...real life caught up with me soon after I posted on here

[golo]

This is my first post (I have a PPC, so I had been watching xbmc from afar until recently) and I was just wondering if there has been any progress on this project. I feel horrible having my first post be a whiny one, but what can you do?

[timdog82001]

everybody seems to have gotten distracted or lost interest. I did quite a bit on the homepage and did most of the settings and some dialogs and so on, but in overall thats not much, and I've been in Costa Rica for the past 3 months, will be leaving for the alaskan wilderness for another 3 months after I get back, and then leaving for ecuador for another 3 months after that. So....don't expect anything from me any time soon.