XBMC for Mac OS X on PowerPC (PPC) CPU systems ?

[SandmanCL]

Since all the porting effort has been for Leopard and Intel I know that right now I'd be out of luck getting XBMC to build on my aging Powerbook G4.

However, are there any logistical reasons XBMC wouldn't compile on non-intel macs ? The GPU in the Powerbook G4 does OpenGL 2.1 and the CPU should (?) be fast enough to decode relatively high x264 resolutions.

[monkeyman]

A lot of code is x86-dependent. Especially the DLL Loader. We're still having trouble getting 64-bit working.

If someone is willing to submit patches, go for it. Otherwise, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[d4rk]

Since all the porting effort has been for Leopard and Intel I know that right now I'd be out of luck getting XBMC to build on my aging Powerbook G4.

However, are there any logistical reasons XBMC wouldn't compile on non-intel macs ? The GPU in the Powerbook G4 does OpenGL 2.1 and the CPU should (?) be fast enough to decode relatively high x264 resolutions.

XBMC has been compiled partially successfully (not feature complete but runnable) on the a 64-bit PPC system (not a Mac). However, we never received a patch for it and this was a while back. So, it's not impossible, just not something any of the current devs have a motivation twoards doing.

[imickey503]

Everything has its place for development. Even XBMC. The Bigger problem lies in how to get the programing stable and usable. Power support is just allot of work for what is going to be a legacy platform. Great for the home user and office and server duties but just not where it is at for future development. ANYTHING IS possible. Hell I'm upgrading my xbox cpu to 1ghz and upgrading the ram by sending my board to Shen Zen China. With enough money, anything is possible. Well almost. Vista will never fit on a CDROM. But other then that, you get the idea.

[iordonez]

Vista will never fit on a CDROM.

Always google before you type :;):

http://teamtutorials.com/windows-tutorials/fit-a-vista-install-on-a-single-cd

In other news imickey just volunteered to port XBMC to Motorola 6800 so my grandma can enjoy XBMC!

[Gamester17]

Porting XBMC for Mac OS X to PowerPC (PPC) could be a perfect Google Summer of Code (GSoC) (http://xbmc.org/wiki/?title=Google_Summer_of_Code_2008) , if you could just find a programming student who is interested in doing this project.

http://xbmc.org/wiki/?title=Google_Summer_of_Code_2008#Team-XBMC_proposal_ideas_up_for_discussion* Fully port XBMC for Mac OS X to compile and run on PowerPC (PPC) architecture
** Maybe with the help of The Fink Project (http://www.finkproject.org) and/or The LLVM Compiler Infrastructure (http://llvm.org)?
** Note! No mentor has yet volunteered to help with Mac OS X specific coding!

Power support is just allot of work for what is going to be a legacy platform.I wouldn't say PowerPC CPU in general is a a legacy platform as both the PlayStation 3 (PS3) and the Xbox 360 game-consoles have PPC based processors. So when you think about it, porting XBMC for PowerPC (PPC) for Mac OS X would be the first step in getting XBMC to someday run on the PS3 or Xbox360, but that is an off-topic discussion for this Mac OS X forum.

[imickey503]

Holy $%&^% No way! feels like finals when that test bit me in the Arse! BTW, I will bake your grandma cookies. Clean her house. And mow the lawn. BUT THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY IN THE WORLD TO GET ME TO WRITE ONE APPLE SCRIPT OF CODE FOR OS9! HELL EVEN OSX . I can't even get Jaguar to work correctly with updates on a beige G3. I always seem to find every dam Bug in the world with the old powerPC platform. From networking issues to just getting a mac to share drives with XBMC via samba.

Programing for Power is like going to the dentist. You know you should, But you just don't wana.

Always google before you type :;):

http://teamtutorials.com/windows-tutorials/fit-a-vista-install-on-a-single-cd

In other news imickey just volunteered to port XBMC to Motorola 6800 so my grandma can enjoy XBMC!

[petejo]

As a XBMC/XBOX user for several years and an excited observer of OSXBMC and an owner of Intel and PPC macs I must admit I see no benefit to XBMC being ported to the PPC's ?

Personally, I was wondering what the heck I was going to do when the eventual move to a Hi-Def tv happened in my house with regard to XBMC.
XBMC on the Xbox is unbeatable for standard def tv watching. PPC would be unable to handle 1080i ( not sure about 720P) so what's the point there ?

Why would you want to replace an Xbox XBMC with a Mac XBMC that can't do any more ?

I'm looking forward to the mac Mini-in-a-time-capsule-enclosure that should be coming soon apparantly.....and I'd imagine it'll use the remote Blu-Ray feature which will soon follow RemoteDVD.

OSXBMC on Intel Minis is the future of High Definition Home Theatre.

[Gamester17]

PPC would be unable to handle 1080i ( not sure about 720P) so what's the point there ?The fact is that 1080i resolution videos takes more CPU processing-power to decode than 720p resolution videos, and on-top of that you need a relative modern GPU to deinterlace 1080i otherwise you have to run the deinterlace filter in software on the CPU which makes 1080i even more CPU hungry.

...and as for the point(s) to port XBMC for Mac OS X to the PPC-architecture, I see at least three:
1. It would be a challenge, and many skilled programmers like a challenge.
2. Many people might already own a PPC Mac and can't afford to upgrade.
- Also, those people same might not even need high-definition output but would be satisfied with standard-definition output.
3. Like I already mentioned, porting XBMC for Mac OS X to the PPC-architecture could be seen as the first step for XBMC on the PS3 and/or Xbox360.

So just because YOU do not see the point does not mean that others won't, thus IMHO you are better of keeping quiet.

[adrianc1982]

the truth is that porting xbmc to intel procesors and better yet to 3 different OSes, is at least great, xbmc was getting lost because xbox1 are starting to fade away either because they have stopped working or because simply they are big, no wifi and hdlimited. Thanks elan for your hard work i still cant believe Im using xbmc again :)

[petejo]

.

So just because YOU do not see the point does not mean that others won't, thus IMHO you are better of keeping quiet.

Oh, so because I dare to express my opinion, which doesn't agree with yours, I had better keep quiet ?!?

Right-o mien Fuhrer !

Free speech buddy.......

[lout]

[QUOTE= The GPU in the Powerbook G4 does OpenGL 2.1 and the CPU should (?) be fast enough to decode relatively high x264 resolutions.[/QUOTE]
i dont thing so try play HD x264 or H264 in vlc player and you will see G4 dont have power to decode

[imickey503]

here is a quote from a pro

http://macosx.com/forums/hardware-peripherals/294837-upgrading-g4-powermac-hd-video.html

Your processor is the culprit. HD video, particulary H.264 encoded video, requires a huge amount of processing power just to play.

I had the last G4 Powerbook made (1.67gHz, 2GB DDR2 matched pair, ATI 256MB video) and could barely do 720p at native size without skipping and other issues. Same issue on a MDD with dual 1.42gHz G4s. The MBPro I have now has no issues at all.

Might be a good time to consider an upgrade if you're going to be messing with a lot of HD content. The new iMacs (and the Minis for that matter) will handle it with no problems. G4s like yours are still fetching around $650 to $800 on eBay last I saw.



Apple's official recommendation (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/recommendations.html) for 720p HD in Quicktime 7 is:
1.8 GHz PowerMac G5 or faster Macintosh computer; 1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo or faster
At least 256MB of RAM
64 MB or greater video card
Your current maschine only meets the requirement for 480p playback.

Apple's official recommendation for 480p HD in Quicktime 7 is:
1.25 GHz PowerMac G4 or faster Macintosh computer
At least 128MB of RAM
64 MB or greater video cardI still think it would be great for PPC, But since you can use linux on PPC, and run XBMC from there. Linux on Power KICK %^. Fast FAST FAST Even on a old beige g3 server. Plus you can use all the video acceleration features you can get your hands on.

http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t35695.html

Again, VIA Technologies company does support hardware acceleration for more than just MPEG-2 for their S3G UniChrome UniChrome Pro graphics chipsets, they support decoding of motion compensation (mo comp), Inverse Discrete Cosine Transform (iDCT), and Variable-Length Decoding (VLD) for MPEG-2, MPEG-4 ASP (H.263), and MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) video. These very active open source projects provide source code for the device drivers, and a updated forked version of libxvmc:
http://openchrome.org (http://openchrome.org/)
http://unichrome.sf.net (http://unichrome.sf.net/)



But then again you run into hardware problems. You jus can't stick any card in your mac to male it work. Even in linux. It Possible for greater amount and variety of the hardware, but you still run into physical restrictions on the hardware side on the PPC macs that make them still more trouble then it's worth. AGP 4x is one of them. Sadly, there will be a day that OSX "Lion" will not be supported for PPC. then we are all just stuck. Just like allot og beige g3 owners out there that are stuck with 10.2.8. Next thing we got is FRANKEN MAC with a intel PC Card (just like in the old days) doing all the work and having the PPC hardware just display the video. Sometimes it was the only way to play games on your mac was using the PC card.

Today, we have to sit down and see what is the future. So far the 360 and the PS3 both have POWER based CPU's But the fact is that the instruction set is totally different. there close but no cigar. What would not surprise me is that osx would run faster on a 360 then a G5 computer. If you really want to port something to 360, xbmc linux would work, But to those who have a 360, most are on there 2nd one. I was on my third. then then i just sent it back to circuit city and got my money back. overheating is a issue.

http://www.hackaday.com/2007/03/20/xbox-360-linux-bootloader-released/

Lastly, fan noise on full tilt on G4 will drive you bezerk while watching a movie. They made special boxes for the boxes to keep the noise down in the video editing environments. Just imagine this in your living room. ever time you play a video the cpu goes to 100% and the fans blow enough hot air to keep you warm in winter.

And how are the imac g3, Imac g4s and emacs going to output SDV? Well we got A firewire convertor, but that like a 200 option, then you are back to the xbox that does sit for 50-100 bucks

Then you got the other g3's and g4's that need a video out, fpr SDTV and the only one that has it is a \beige g3, but it only works well in os9. then you got to buy a $100 video card because all mac cars cost more then PC cards do/ (How the hell you sell a ATI radeon 7000 for 100 bucks plus is beyond me! AND SOME DO NOT EVEN HAVE VIDEO OUTS!) Then if you want a new card to work with your mac, it has to be a new G5 becase they don;t make new pci express cards for g4 macs, just more pci based cards! that cost over $100 bucks. And $200 for a AGP based card!

All this stuff, and you still get your pee pee slapped by a mac mini for 500 bucks that beats out a G5 dual.

And NOW you know why we mac heads LOVE FreeX86. You could actually run the best software on the best hardware!

Why else do you think apple switched? OSX ran like lighting on the P4 at 3.4Ghz And took advantage of all the hardware aceleration the windows guys have been getting for years and put it too good use. No matter how you stack it. Less then a 1000 people will ever use it. And less then a 100 will keep using it for more then 3 years.

XBMC for linux will be used forever. XBMC on the mac will be used till the next software update makes the rebuild necessary every year. I can't imagine the work the Dev guys are doing to make this work. But god bless them!

[Plantain]

FWIW, I can playback 720p x264 on my iBook G4.

Compiling all the necessary stuff yourself with Alti-vec addons _really_ makes a difference (Gentoo Linux)

No hope under OS X though, I get about 6fps with VLC.

Anywho, the moral of the story is - PPC isn't dead!
If we're ever going to see XBMC on the Xbox 360 (Or better yet, the PS3), we need a PowerPC port.

I gave it a go once, only to find significant portions of the codebase have been converted to assembly needlessly? I found myself spending hours trying to figure out a piece of assembly was doing (was usually something silly like printf :/)

[jeremymc7]

I know a lot of people don't want to upgrade computers. Or simply can't. But keep in mind Apple isn't going to support PPC machines too much longer, and many other software vendors aren't at all. Not to mention as new Intel machines are released the cost to switch over to an older Intel machine from a PPC gets cheaper and cheaper.

That said it was stated that porting to PPC would be a jumping point to getting XBMC on a PS3 or similar PPC machine. Now that would rock. Cheaper and more powerful(???) then a Mini and with Blueray DVD support. Ahhh to dream. But I digress as I've slipped into off topic as well.

[imickey503]

FWIW, I can playback 720p x264 on my iBook G4.

Compiling all the necessary stuff yourself with Alti-vec addons _really_ makes a difference (Gentoo Linux)

No hope under OS X though, I get about 6fps with VLC.

Anywho, the moral of the story is - PPC isn't dead!
If we're ever going to see XBMC on the Xbox 360 (Or better yet, the PS3), we need a PowerPC port.

I gave it a go once, only to find significant portions of the codebase have been converted to assembly needlessly? I found myself spending hours trying to figure out a piece of assembly was doing (was usually something silly like printf :/)

There is no doubt that GENTOO rocks! But that is just the thing. REAL POWER UNDER LINUX! I love my old apples, But you know, somtimes i think OSX runs better inside of a shell (Like in yellow dog Linux) then it does all by itself. WEIRD BUT TRUE! So it begs to wonder, Why is all this power not built in from the start? Simple. New machines = $$$ and the new XGRID softwafre encorages you to buy more Macs to do your work. Cool, But as you see, It all adds up to purchasing more to get more, Not maxamising what you got, . Sad but true. Xgrid is great at computing nymbersa and doing video transcoding, But might not help to much just to play video...Wish it did.

[Gamester17]

PPC (PowerPC) emulators could possibly make porting easier for those developers who do not actually have PPC hardware:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_virtual_machines

QEMU emulator looks most promising at a first glance(?) ???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QEMU
http://bellard.org/qemu/QEMU is an open source software simulator for x86 that can emulate systems with processors of various architectures, including 386, x86_64, ARM, MIPS, PowerPC and Sparc. For ARM, two emulated platforms are available -- an older "Integrator" platform, and a newly-added "Versatile" platform.

The new Versatile platform includes a SCSI hard disk controller, Ethernet card, and graphical display. According to french Debian developer Aurelien Jarno (who published a HOW-TO about installing Debian or another Linux distributions on the open-source QEMU emulator), when run on an Athlon 64 3800+, running under QEMU can perform 20 percent faster than the ARM-based LinkSys NSLU2 (http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6152296875.html) (an inexpensive network-attached storage appliance that is commonly pressed into service as a full Debian ARM development target (http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6152296875.html)).

Jarno's HOW-TO begins by describing how to download and install QEMU from CVS, to ensure that the latest Versatile platform support is included. He then configures QEMU to emulate a 10GB hard drive, and downloads a publicly shared Versatile kernel that he created (Debian ARM does not yet include a kernel that supports the image, he says). Next he downloads Debian's "Etch" installer, and bootstraps the installer using a qemu-system-arm command.

Jarno's HOW-TO next describes several harmless error messages, leading ultimately to the emulated ARM system's first boot. Jarno's HOW-TO completes the basic installation by installing a more complete kernel.

Jarno's HOW-TO goes on to explore a few more advanced topics, such as running an Xorg server, increasing the amount of RAM to the maximum supported size of 256MB, and setting up a network bridge to allow the emulated system access to the Internet. The HOW-TO closes with a list of additional resources.

The full HOW-TO can be found here (link) (http://www.aurel32.net/info/debian_arm_qemu.php) was first published in 2006