NTSC HD (1080i, 720p,...) Display pb

[jglafkid]

Hi,
I have a display problem when using HD options in my Xbmc.
I am in the latest xbmc release, I have made the test with MC360 and PMIII with same result.
In PAL 16/9- 4/3 and NTSC 16/9- 4/3 no issues.

the characters are fuzzy (with right echo like a tripple shadow).
My screen OSD is top
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/JGLAFK%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg(I have a screen shot but wan't put it in the thread)

Thanks for your help
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/JGLAFK%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg

[uwer]

Sounds like analog artifacts from a bad cable or inadequate television.

Make sure your connectors are firmly plugged. Jiggle the connectors on the tv/amp and on the back of the Xbox to see if you get momentary improvements.
Try your TV with other HD sources.

The links you provided are for local files on your Harddisk. Make photos with a digicam an put them on some webspace, then link to them. Make screenshots with the same content and link to these, too, so they can be compared.

What kind of component cable for Xbox are you using?
Is the signal routed through an amp/receiver?

HTH, uwer

[SleepyP]

do you realize that your "screenshots" are not actually images you have posted on the internet and therefore cannot be viewed by anyone??

Is your Xbox PAL or NTSC, what HD resolution(s) are you using, and what kind of AV cable are you using?

[jglafkid]

Thanks
I am sorry for the link, but when I saw the post i wasn't able to edit it.

Originaly my xbox is a PAL one. I tried all HD resolution with same problem.

I am using an amp/receiver
in HD (1080i,720p, ) my sd TV dsiplay is not running (no downsampling by the amp)
about the cable :
Xbox -> amp it is a normal YUV cable.
Amp -> Projector it is a gold YUV cable.

shaking the cable at the xbox side, doesn't change anything about the ghost issue. If i move it a lot, I can see somme horizontal color line but not related. I will try to found another YUV cable to see if I still have the issue.

(fyi my HDMI connexion of my iMAC is working fine on my Projector)
thanks again for your help

I will publish my picture soon

[jglafkid]

Here is the screenshot :
http://hidebehind.com/86B15F
bottom right is the OSD, top left the xbmc character

thanks

[SleepyP]

PAL Xboxes cannot output HD. You first will need to use the Enigmah video mode switcher to put your XBox into NTSC mode. Then you will be unable to use your Xbox with PAL standard definition (SD) televisions.

You did not tell us what brand / kind of cable you are using. "Normal" means nothing. There are several different sets of HD cables available for the Xbox. Generally people have image quality problems with generic (no brand) ones, while most people do report good results with Microsoft and Monster branded products. I can vouch for those two since I have 2 Monster cables and one Microsoft set, and all are perfect.

[uwer]

From the photo it looks like something in your systems signal path doesn't like the high frequencies produced by high definition analog sources.

Try and connect your Xbox to your projector directly and see if that makes any difference.

I'm using a third party component cable to my receiver (Onkyo TX-SR605), where the signal is converted to HDMI an routed to an HD-ready LCD screen. Works great.

Let us know what your results are.

uwer

[jglafkid]

I have used enigmah.
the output cable is the gamester one bought years ago.

[jglafkid]

I tried a direct connexion to my proj, same issue.
so it is not the cable, may be not the proj, normally not the xbox, so it left the xbox output cable converter to check. I will try to get another one.
what brand of that cable do you recommand :
- monster cable,
- microsoft one ?

so we can say that xbmc is not concerned ?
thanks again

[uwer]

This is definitely not an XBMC problem.

I got my cable from ebay, its not branded, there are no markings on the cable.

This looks very much like the one I have, the price is in the same region, too:
http://cgi.ebay.fr/XBOX-YUV-Cable-composant-Component-Cable-Optical-out_W0QQitemZ170180108606QQihZ007QQcategoryZ132753 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

As far as I remember, the original M$ component/YUV cable doesn't have an optical output for digital sound but I could be wrong. Anyway you'll want an optical out even if you're not using it now, to make it more future proof. :)

What could be causing your problem:
A: Xbox - Doesn't supply a good signal (Unlikely IMHO).
B: Cable - Reflections on the cables, bad impedance, bad ground connection.
C: Projector - Can't handle 720p and up on its analog inputs very well.
D: A combination of any of the above.
E: Other (You have to leave a wildcard in there) ;)

Possible solutions:
A: Try a different Xbox

B: I have often seen flaky ground connections with Cinch connectors, which are used at the outgoing end of such cables. The screen connection may be bent outwards. Also cleaning the connectors with some alcohol might help. I had that issue with a headphone I hadn't used in years and only infrequently. It's kind of embarassing, but it seems that tar from tobacco smoke had coated the metal parts...
An anecdote to put all this into perspective...
Before I had that cable, I used the one supplied with my "X2VGA" Component to VGA converter. It was a similar cable, with optical out. The differences were: The leads were only about 20 cm long and they were sockets (female) instead of plugs. When I got my new Hi-Def LCD Screen I didn't have the spiffy amp and wanted to hook the Xbox up to the LCD directly. Of course I had to extend the cable somehow. All the shops were closed and I would have been too inebriated to drive, anyway. So I cannibalized some extremely cheap stereo cinch extension cables and used those. I had a little bit of those shadow artifacts, but it wasn't _near_ as bad as what that photo of your screen suggests. As for the length of the extensions, I don't remember. I know it was at least 1,5 meters.

C: Try a different source that can output analog 720p or 1080i

D: Pray :laugh:

HTH, uwer

[uwer]

Turns out, my picture is not as perfect as I thought... :laugh:

Xbox connected directly to TV, only Luminace component (Y, green cable), least amount of ground connections.
http://www.s.netic.de/uwer/xbmc/20071227/XBMC_20071227_AA_01_653x490.jpg

Xbox connected directly to TV, all components connected.
http://www.s.netic.de/uwer/xbmc/20071227/XBMC_20071227_AA_02_653x490.jpg

Xbox connected through amp (HDMI conversion), all components connected.
http://www.s.netic.de/uwer/xbmc/20071227/XBMC_20071227_AD_03_653x490.jpg

There's artifacts visible in all three of them.
Although I must say, I hadn't noticed anything odd within my normal viewing distance, which is 1,2 to 2,5 meters.
These artifacts might be more obvious when viewing on a different display system, i.e. your projector.
Even that might depend on the technology as in LCD vs. DLP, who knows. ???

I have tried to make photos of 720p movies freeze frames for comparison to a real world scenario. Turns out its not that easy to shoot that stuff without a tripod.

So there you have it. I guess, I'll call it a night.

uwer

[jglafkid]

thanks for this, I'm in LCD projector. My artifacts are more important.
other component sources with same cables are fine !!
so 2 possiblities : the xbox or the xbox HD cable.
I will test from the cheapest to the expensive solution, begining by changing the xbox HD cable adaptor.

Do you know if Xbox-HDMI cable exists ?
thanks all for your help.

[uwer]

>thanks for this, I'm in LCD projector. My artifacts are more important.
I guess you mean the artifacts you see are more pronounced, more visible?

>other component sources with same cables are fine !!
>so 2 possiblities : the xbox or the xbox HD cable.
Don't jump to conclusions just yet. You can only compare these other sources to the Xbox if these sources also deliver an HD signal with 720p minimum.

>I will test from the cheapest to the expensive solution, begining by
>changing the xbox HD cable adaptor.
>Do you know if Xbox-HDMI cable exists ?
There is no HDMI cable for the Xbox.
There are converters from component video to HDMI but they are usually priced prohibitively. It is doubtful that they would improve anything because they wouldn't change the underlying weakness in the system.

>thanks all for your help.
You're welcome.

uwer

[jglafkid]

You well guess.

I used my HD camcorder in 1080 both HDMI and component and no artefact using same cable.
=> no artefact