Why (and on what) would you like to see XBMC on a newer game-console HW platform? [Archive]

t029248

2006-04-02, 14:50

xbmc on linux? it would be killer!
imagine a stripped-down distro booting in seconds from write-protected media, multitask (true web server, etc), built-in support for usb, tv and whatnot...
yes that’s what i mean the best of two worlds. the xbmc application and the flexibility of a fully functional pc and not the crippled xbox hardware!

xbmc is great i’m using it for two years now and i couldn’t imagine not to use it anymore! though xbmc is great, it’s lacking tv support and it’s limited in cpu power, i think we honestly need to look forward towards the future evolution of xbmc. at least we should be allowed to dream and discuss this issue; (without being bumped with the line, that the current developers are not interested!) i understand that xbmc is an xbox application if we are talking about different hardware xbmc wouldn’t be a xbox application anymore, it would becomes a media center application!

of course there is already a good media center alternative for xbmc with tv support. this alternative media portal is great but unfortunately it’s running on window. i personally think windows is not a good os for a htpc application! i like the media portal software al lot but i don’t want a “windows os” on my tv.
one of the problems with windows is that sometimes it decides suddenly to be busy with something unknown for an unknown amount of time, these unknown operations could happen during a important recording / event or other moments when it’s not convenient!
( i don’t want to restart windows during the worldcup final, and windows seems to look for those kind of moments to fail on me http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/cry.gif )
and sometimes windows falls into some kind of a coma state, it’s showing some brain activity, its giving you hope it wakes up again, but after too much time being wasted you realize that a reboot is the only solution. besides that, windows degrades over time and needs a reinstallation and total reconfiguration too often, and it’s not free, you need to pay windows tax uhhh have a license!

imho linux is much more reliable / stable as an media center os, it could become the back / front-end of a future open source media center. currently the media portal community is discussing what to do after the release of version 0.2 final http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/viewtopic.php?t=14175 many people prefer fe / be and or iptv support. i wish it could be forked and ported too linux. maybe i’m wrong about this (not being a dev) but if mp is running on the .net framework shouldn’t it run on linux with mono as well!??

well i’m simply curious how others think about this subject! what’s going to be the future of xbmc!?

cubicgarden

2006-04-03, 15:29

i would love to see xbmc on the new intel macminis.

am i right in saying the intel mac would be much easier to work towards than the ps3 because its still a x86 processor. the ps3 and xbox 360 seem to be tricky because of the cells and g5 (power pc) cpu's?

Kaspers

2006-04-18, 19:58

360 of course :).

ashlar

2006-04-25, 13:30

i would follow xbmc to any console... i was looking into media portal ('cause now you can install it on a mac mini with dual core processor, and that would be enough to play back 1080p stuff) but i quickly discovered that mp is still lacking stuff when compared to xbmc (namely, what's with no milkdrop support... :().

drakethegreat

2006-04-25, 21:58

personally i would prefer the xbox 360 because its out now and i own it. of course that is a partial view since i own it, but the ps3 is worth looking into.

the reality is that if xbmc is ported to linux then if free60 project actually gets linux running on the 360 then both the 360 and ps3 would be capable of running xbmc.

yet that is a big if on getting linux on the 360. its amazing that microsoft is so reluctant because they haven't considered how many original xboxes sold just because of the ability to run 3rd party software.

considering that gates founded microsoft and windows on the idea that all this hardware would need a piece of software that was universal, why hasn't he considered this on consoles? he seems to be following the apple thinking of lets lock people in and make them only what we produce.

he has failed to see in the console market what he saw in the personal computer market. quite funny actually.

LaTropa64

2006-05-10, 22:48

though xbmc is great, it’s lacking tv support and it’s limited in cpu power

...
:nod:

i would love to see xbmc move into the realm of being able to run on any linux machine. i barely use my xbox anymore for games and as hd starts to take a stronger hold on me i feel i'm going to have to dump my xbox as my main home theater application soon. i really don't want to though because nothing else out there compares. i even run a mythbox but can't stand it's frontend so i use the xbmcmythtv to watch all my recorded shows (it's not good for live tv but otherwise is great).

i might have to look into media portal. the pm3 skin looks nice on it.

gpant

2006-05-14, 17:46

i purchased an xbox only for the xbmp and then upgraded to xbmc, and i am really happy having it on my xbox's(especially since last year which i replaced the fans:-) i dont find the xbox is missing anything other than the pvr functionality. thus i will move the way xbmc moves, i am not really into gaming(i have 3 consoles and 4 games :-) so if the developers thing they can do better with another console i will get that to have the media experience i am getting now. my dream though would be to replace myth tv with xbmc for pvr.

RKMFlorida

2006-06-17, 16:38

i, like many on this list, run mediaportal for the pc and xbmc as my endpoint solution. i prefer xbmc as an endpoint because of one or two important features mp developers aren't interested in implementing.

i would very much like to replace the xbox hardware with inexpensive pc hardware, booting from a usb key or flash disk (or boot cd), running with the fanless mods -- that sort of thing. the only trick is figuring out how to run xbmc on a pc. i know there is an xbox emulator for the pc, but i was wondering whether there is *any* possible option to run xbmc on a pc rather than xbox. a search of the forums returns information about the original mp as an xbox port; however, i'm referring to a true version of xbmc on an x86 architecture.

thank you in advance,
rusten

pike

2006-06-17, 16:45

no there isn't.

xbmc is tied very close to xbox hardware and the xbox sdk. it's not trivial to move away from this and we will most likely never make an application that runs on generic pc hardware.
beauty of a console is that you know what you get, with a generic "pc" you don't.

RKMFlorida

2006-06-19, 12:31

well said.

with that in mind, is there an alternative to using the original xbox console to mount hardware (for cooling/quieting purposes)?

my problem is that the xbox console is extremely loud in bedrooms. i've searched everywhere for someone offering an alternate case without luck.

i'm also interested in whether anyone has used flash ide's as a hdd replacement (which would then require the eliminating of xbmc's caching feature, to cut down on writes). this alone would allow the console to run cool enough where i could gain room for a silent 80mm fan as opposed to the stock screamer. i've tried mods and the add-on cooling; however, these aren't particularly good solutions.

thanks again!

Livin

2006-06-19, 20:50

there are custom made alternative cases for the xbox... they are rare and costly though. you'd be better off customizing your own.

what i did was followed some of the guides on xbox-scene and places foam inside to insulate for sound (not really shure how much it helps) and also did a few other mod's to change the fan and make the airflow less restricted, thus less fan speed and less noise.

then i changed the hd to a quiet seagate... worked well and i can only hear it when it spins up initially. the fan is on auto inside xbmc so it will get nearly silent when not needed.

good luck with it

RKMFlorida

2006-06-19, 21:21

prior to originally posting, i had searched high and low for the alternative xbox cases (i'm not referring to cases that are merely different colors, etc -- but new form factors) and haven't come up with anything other than a product that was only made for about 6 months (no longer in business) x20 or something to that effect.

if you know of other cases with more space/cooling, can you forward some names or url's?

i too went with a silent seagate; however, the fan is the loudest component. i tried to mod a 60mm in accordance with the xbox-scene tutorials as well; however, they don't make a 60mm that is silent and moves enough air for the xbox. i'll check for ducting mods you mentioned to get better airflow (i had already cut out all the fins blocking the 60mm fan for starters, but it didn't do much good).

if anyone has any links or info on running with a flash-disk, let me know -- thank you in advance!

amadawn

2006-06-19, 21:44

guys,

can you please give the reference number for the "quite seagate" drive that you installed? does it really make such a difference?

btw, do you know the speed (in rpm) of the stock xbox hard-drives?

thanks!

amadawn

RKMFlorida

2006-06-19, 22:33

drives with fluid dynamic bearings and other new quiet technologies make a *huge* difference, imo. depending on which generation of drives, the models will be different -- but seagate was the first to start delivering them about 5 years ago (if memory serves). i believe the current seagate term for this model line's technology to be "softsonic motors", wd refers to "whisperquiet". the most generic term you can search under is the "fluid dynamic bearings" i mentioned above -- this will show you a cross-section of your options among all manufacturers.

more importantly, take a look at some of the new drives that mention home media gateways and drives that consume *less power* (which in turn means less heat -- which is obviously measured in watts). just in the last year they started offering lower-power 3.5" drives for this purpose.

if i remember correctly, the original xbox shipped with a 5,400 rpm, 8gb drive, but i could very well be wrong. it does make a difference in heat, if you can find a 5,400.

with that said, any new ideas for cases?

stuaxo

2006-06-29, 04:50

on linux would be very cool, it would also mean that the main xbmc could switch to running on linux, that way we have easy multitasking, driver support, access to all the emulators already ported...

RKMFlorida

2006-06-30, 06:26

so no alternative xbox case options anyone knows about?

anyone that's tested flash bootable options?

SleepyP

2006-06-30, 23:54

i really don't get what you're talkin about. the xbox should be able to run very close to silently.
the single cooling fan can be controlled either with the bios or by software. xbmc can control the fan (look in settings>system).

the only other major source of noise in the box is the harddisk. the trick here is to simply get a fairly recent one which has one of the many noise reduction technologies in it.

i have a box with these two and it's very quiet and nice.
whereabouts in the world are you?

SleepyP

2006-06-30, 23:57

also, you should be able to mount the xb guts in pretty much anything which has enough space and a spot to mount a microatx motherboard.

RKMFlorida

2006-07-01, 02:53

i mentioned above that i use an extremely quiet drive and that isn't the issue. the cooling is. we use xbmc in our bedrooms which are typically silent, and in these environments the fans are noisy -- even when in auto-mode (reducing speed as temperatures decline).

i am very interested in your second post, where you mention the ability to mount xbox components in a microatx case. this is news to me because i had heard that the xbox motherboard form factor doesn't adapt to any motherboard form factor (microatx or otherwise). i've also seen xbox-to-pc-case mods and from those i've seen, they are complex. the power supply isn't standard and there are mounting/cabling issues, there is cabling and mounting for the front ports (or ir adapter) and switches, etc.

however -- if someone in this forum does xbox-to-pc-case mods for purchase, i would be interested in talking to you.

thanks in advance.

shinomen

2006-07-06, 02:18

i'd like to see it on ps2. i can't seem to find any good apps for a modded ps2. i think the best one was called myps2. not bad but was so lacking alot.

i think it's hard to code for the ps2 and that's why there isn't alot of software out there.

JustinT9669

2006-07-07, 21:01

i would like to see xbmc on xbox 360 only since the hardware could probably handle hd movies (high resolution movies).

SleepyP

2006-07-09, 15:54

most.pointless.poll.ever.

SleepyP

2006-07-09, 15:54

also there is no such thing as a "nintendo revolution"...

htilly

2006-07-09, 20:58

Psychopikk

2006-08-11, 19:32

Hey :-) This is my first post to this forum. I hope my broken english don't annoy anyone. I even hope that a few of you will find it a bit sexy :-P I also hope that i'm not touching a theme discussed up and down before :-)

I buyed my XBOX (new with mod) one year ago for about 160$. With XBMC installed, I think this have to be one of the best investments in my life. I have a flexible mediacenter who fits all my needs :-)

XBMC have surely been a great project. My concern is what will happen with all this valuble work and effort when XBOX now is tuned out of the market.

How strong is the code bounded to XBOX? How much effort will it take to port it to other hardware? Hardware, like the one you find in a XBOX should not to hard to produce today for a reasinoble price.

I wonder if it wouldnt be temping ,for any hardware producers out there, to produce machines fit to run a ported version of XBMC. And maybe also add new facilities that allows further development of XBMC.

It must be a gift for any hardware producer to have an software like XBMC laying ready for their hardware. It must must be a dream to have a functinal sociaty take care of further development of the software.

I hope XBMC don't dissapear with the XBOX.

jgawera

2006-08-14, 14:22

Definately some nice ideas there, great post.

I'd guess that there is a fair chunk of code that is not xbox specific.
I think a key factor that makes XBMC so successful is the fixed hardware platform. You can be pretty sure that if it works for you, it'll work for everyone else.

I'm not sure how likely it is that a hardware manufacturer would be able/willing to produce something with the features of the xbox (minus the games) at a price that is comparable to the current xbox price.

What may be more feasible is to have a specific list of readily available hardware (probably PC based) and port XBMC to that.
This would help control the development and support costs as everyone would still have the same hardware.
this XBMC box needs to have:
TV connectivity
Audio connectivity
Remote control interface.
Network connectivity (probably a good idea to have wireless aswell)
DVD drive
Hard drive

Ideally the XBMC box would be cheap enough that you could put one with each TV in the house.
I don't think the XBMC box should have PVR capabilities. At least not the standard version. Maybe there could be a separate PVR version with an upgraded hardware spec. With this, a whole extra level of complexity would be added.

For now, I'm happy to use XBMC on the xbox, but it's nice to think that XBMC would continue beyond the life of the console.

Long live XBMC!!!

Ph03n1x

2006-08-14, 23:44

A legal way to get XBMC on the 360 (http://www.i4u.com/article6289.html)? Definitely sounds interesting...

jgawera

2006-08-16, 12:15

As an addition to my pervious post.
This might be worth some consideration.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/08/15/dawe_bablebox_competition/

skovgaard

2006-08-25, 11:17

I think in the same direction as jgawera. I myself use my xbox only for xbmc and I believe many others are in the same situation.

For HD content a low power hardware platform would be great. What I have noticed reading a lot on www.doom9.org is that many mpeg4 player manufacturers suffer from poor support and rare software updates.

If the xbmc team could port their code onto one for instance one of the sigma designs platforms i.e.

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/Products/SMP8630/pdf_files/Envision8634_br.pdf

- they could potentially beat all the other manufacturers by better support and more frequent software updates.

Gamester17

2006-08-25, 18:28

I have tried to stay out of this discussion, but I like to post this as an argument against all suggestions about porting XBMC to non-windows platform:

I'm not a programmer/developer myself so maybe this is based of wrong information but please bare with me. The XNA Framework for Windows (http://forum.xboxmediacenter.com/showthread.php?t=9299&page=7) is coming out very soon (at least the first BETA version) and XBMC could probebely be ported to Win32 (Microsoft Windows Operating-Systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows)) relativly quick and easily by one or more skilled developer using that. If so then that ported version should be able to run on any Windows Operating-System that supports the .NET Framework 2.0 runtime-enviroment (http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframework/) (like Windows XP, Windows XP Embedded (http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/), and Windows CE 6.0 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/virtuallabs/windowsce/)), and run on all hardware that those Windows Operating-Systems supports. Now Windows Operating-Systems usually only run on x86 processor/hardware-platforms, however Windows CE 6.0 supports ARM, MIPS and SH4 processors/platforms as well. Though Windows CE 6.0 does not support as many device drivers as Windows XP and Windows XP Embedded does, and Windows CE 6.0 does only support the Windows .NET Compact Framework 2.0, however that happens to be the same Compact Framework that will run on the Xbox360 when the XNA Framework for Xbox360 (http://forum.xboxmediacenter.com/showthread.php?t=9299&page=7) is released in December this year, ...thus possible making it easier to first port XBMC to Windows using the XNA and then only port that version to the Xbox360 when the XNA for it comes out).

Porting XBMC to Windows (with the XNA) might make a few end-users whine and moan as they have will to pay for the Windows Operating-System (if they want to stay legal), but it would be SO MUCH easier for programmer/developer to do that then to try to port XBMC to Linux, PS3 or any other platform, as XBMC GUI code so heavily relies on the DirectX API (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX) to work, (which both the mentioned Windows Operating-Systems and the Xbox360 supports).

As for the hardware, I always though the VIA EPIA MINI-ITX Motherboards Series (http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/) would make a great hardware platform for a Windows-based HTPC media center, (or as a dedicated stand-alone PVR/DVR media-player). The processors on the VIA EPIA mainboards might not be that fast processors but the latest incarnation of built-in graphic-chips on them supports decoding of MPEG-4 ASP and AVC (H.264) with the GPU at High-Definition resolutions, also with their embedded platform (http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/embedded/) being so small in size (making fit in virtualy any casing) and a huge community behind it makes it very attractive to open source developers.

PS! All said and done I like to end this 'rant' by saying that I personaly think the original Xbox still has a few great years left it in it,
Used Xboxes are cheap and they are good enough for all Standard- Definition resolutions, (with the exception of H.264/AVC video).

ashlar

2006-08-29, 17:32

Any developer wishing to comment on Gamester17's post?

Have you talked inside the Team about going the XNA way with 360?

jonb2

2006-09-21, 15:34

I would love to see XMBC brought to linux as a desktop, and add the ability to record from a capture card. Sort of like msn for tv and a tivo box all in one, but better.

ashlar

2006-09-30, 14:46

Any developer wishing to comment on Gamester17's post?

Have you talked inside the Team about going the XNA way with 360?Now that 2.0 is out of the door... any news on this? :)

spiff

2006-09-30, 14:59

xna = c#

xbmc = c++

you go figure

znelbok

2007-01-03, 06:57

Hi all

I have just purchased a Mvix 760HD media center and what a dissapointment it was. While the hardware was pretty good, the gui was absolutly hopeless, especially after using xbmc for a couple of years now. [Congrats to the developers for the best MC out there]

This got me thinking.
The main reason I bought it was for its DVI output so I could use it with my new plasma.
I believe that this is a box that runs linux/unix of some sort.
WHat would it take for xmbc to be ported to other hardware to take advantage of better/nerwer chips, processors etc that is available on todays market. You have to admit that while the xbox is a great device, it is getting old and is in dire need of a DVI/HDMI output.

I dont know if the mediacate and the Tvix are similar in nature (wrt GUI), I expect they are, they could all be potential winners with xbmc on top instead of what they are currently offering.

Mick

Gamester17

2007-01-03, 17:36

WHat would it take for xmbc to be ported to other hardware to take advantage of better/nerwer chips, processors etc that is available on todays market.Time, skill and interest (plus money for the hardware).

Please read the answers/disussions in existing topic threads!:
Poll: Would you like to see XBMC on a other console/hardware-platform? (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19144)
Port XBMC to Linux-OS (XBMC on a Linux computer or other Linux device?)? (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9287)
Xbox360 and XBMC (XBMC on Xbox360?)? (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9299)
XBMC for/on PlayStation 2 (PS2)? (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9288)
XBMC for/on PlayStation 3 (PS3)? (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21849)
Port XBMC to PSP (PlayStation Portable)? (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14941)

XBMC alternatives for x86 computers (running Windows or Linux)
MediaPortal, XBMC for Windows PC (Win32 x86-computers) (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1042)
XBMC vs. The World?, looking for an Xbox/XBMC alternative (http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21240)

znelbok

2007-01-03, 22:44

Fair comment

I was thinking along the lines that if a suitable piece of hardware could be found that it would pave the way for the team to produce a saleable version of the mediac center which would pay for all the hard work.

This would not be popular with the end users, but at least the deveoplers would get what they deserve.

Well I think its jst a matter of sittang back and waiting now - good luck to what ever you decide to do.

Mick

Asteron

2007-01-03, 22:50

I don't suppose the team has considered turning this into a stand-alone commercial product? Bundle in some DVR and you are set for the software.

I guess there might be license issues preventing you from doing this?

Robo983

2007-01-09, 18:45

I voted for any platform. I would buy anything that XBMC was running as long as it cost less than a PC and was quiter. Since XBOX 1 is no longer manf I have developed a fear they will dry up anc I wont be able to get one anymore. I have tried all sorts of other streaming devices and keep coming back to XBMC. Playing backups from the HD is a bonus but not why I bought an XBOX.

smolesen

2007-01-15, 14:14

Hi

Wouldn't it be possible to create a mediacenter PC with XBMC as the OS ??

Well what I mean:

The Xbox is pretty much just a PC, however it lack some processing power...
The bios has been cracked, and I'd expect that they pretty much has the sourcecode for it.

So wouldn't it be possible to take one brand of MB, one brand of soundcard and one brand of graphicadapter, and then make the bios work with that??

You'd then have a PC that boots in no time and would be able to run XBMC with all the processing power possible....

Just a thought.....:rofl:

spiff

2007-01-15, 14:52

feel free. you state this as if its something trivial; it's not.

swindmill

2007-01-23, 00:04

XBMC on Xbox is amazing.

NOTHING on the market can compare.

Why is it that no manufacturer can compete with what an open source development community has created for what is now outdated commodity hardware?

I understand that DRM issues are present here, but as long as a manufacturer is not directly providing access to copyrighted works, how/why could they be held liable?

What's preventing a company from taking XBMC, paying one or more of the developers to port it over to newer, more substantial hardware, and selling it as a bundled software/hardware solution?

Hell, what's preventing a few people from starting a grassroots effort to do the same and relying upon "the community" for funding and research/development? A standardized hardware spec, a website, a cry for funding and some backing by the XBMC developers would suffice.

Does anyone else see a problem with the lack of open devices for playback of the various media content available on the web?

pike

2007-01-23, 02:11

ashlar

2007-01-26, 12:26

So much would have to be handed to us before we would attempt something like this. Just some things worth considering:

* With the XDK we already get Lowlevel drivers for the hardware + DirectX
* XBMC should never run ontop of Windows imho, then we'd be bloatware
* We can't design hardware or code drivers (atleast we never attempted it, and I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want to)Have you ever considered approaching one of the companies producing networked media players? I'm thinking Snazio, Zensonic, Kiss, NetGear... those kind of companies.

They might be willing to provide the hardware and support if they could in return get the best software ever created for the kind of purpose they have in mind for their machines...

BetaByte

2007-02-06, 00:26

I'ld like to see it ported to the 360, and gaogaos idea sounds good too :cool:

xbmc on linux? it would be killer!
imagine a stripped-down distro booting in seconds from write-protected media, multitask (true web server, etc), built-in support for usb, tv and whatnot...

trejkaz

2007-02-12, 03:12

Sounds like the only way this is going to be done easily is by porting the Xbox API to some other platform (I guess it could be implemented on top of Wine, which already has a huge chunk of DirectX working... Hmm...)

Of course I say "easily", but that isn't exactly easy.

A friend of mine suggests running it under an Xbox emulator on PC. I can't imagine that being very good though, emulating video codecs. I have experienced emulating video codecs via Mac OS X (x86 emulating ppc) and there was always jerkiness of some sort.

BaM

2007-02-12, 07:29

I'm just wondering if the PS3 wouldn't be the way to go, as per this article:

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-linuxps3-1/

I realize it has IBM and Sony spin all over it, but it still makes sense, although lack of video acceleration might be an issue... depending on how much power you can tap from the processors.

What do you coders/developers think? Is it possible or do I have completely the wrong ide about how this works?

Gir_Ver_2.0

2007-02-12, 11:04

Ok, what about the possibility of resurrecting one of the open source xbox emulators and getting it to work with XBMC? Disable the ability to run any XBE to avoid copy write issues. The last emulator ended production in 2003 the hardware today should be able to emulate XBOX hardware standards with added speed available to handle HD and anything else you throw at it (much like an upgraded XBOX).
XBMC would then be able to continue to be developed for a "fixed" platform . I will start bugging my code savvy friends to see if they can tweak one of the existing projects into this.

In case your wondering why I ask this, it's because of the increasing rarity of working xbox consoles to mod, the accessories are becoming non-existent (see the HD Kit for reference), and add to that when things break (as they always do) replacements become harder and harder to come by. Last but not least XBMC is the absolute king of the hill as far as Media Center front ends are concerned.

spider_31

2007-02-23, 19:27

The WII remote would be kind of cool.

Also, the small slick WII design does not take up to much room.

I have bought 2 XBOX just for XBMC

XBMC truly is a great product.

Nomad68

2007-02-24, 07:41

Move it to the PS3, then that machine would be worth having.

dexx

2007-03-15, 09:06

I would love to see XBMC ported to Linux

gateway69

2007-03-27, 00:21

mac mini is a way to go, nice design, small, dvi out, optical out, decent cpu and ram and of course a full OS to play with.

ultrabrutal

2007-03-27, 09:17

gateway, not to mention it's low price ;)

halfelite

2007-04-06, 00:36

I would start saving up my money for a ps3 for the devs to start.

blakholephysics

2007-04-07, 18:27

pike

2007-04-07, 18:40

I don't own a 360 nor any other "nextgen" console yet, but people say the 360 is quite a noisemaker (loud fans). I know even less about the ps3

gateway69

2007-04-10, 08:10

You know my friends and I have been talking about this A LOT lately as to the demise of our trusty old hacked xbox's and the playing back of media we have collected over the years.

We all know that video is pushing forward and a lot more lets call them releases are coming out in x264 at a high bit rate, which well the old xbox isn't going to play at fps.

I could go on and on about this. Most people don't care and I can see why, the people that I have asked about this that don't care much are the people with small tv screens so most all video looks ok to them, but for all the people picking up nice lcd's, plasmas, dpl and anything bigger than 32inches you really can notice the quality issues.

I recently tested out my buddies mini mac on my 64" DPL 1080p tv running in 1080p. The front row app while its a step froward from apple still didn't have anywhere half the features that XBMC offers. Next Apple just released the Apple tv and while thats the next step fw from apple it still lacks a lot of the cool features I have come to love.

Im not trying to piss off any developers but I think its the right path for an app like this to take. PC hw is cheap, 95% of the population has a PC running some form of windows, and hell even the intel macs will run windows.

My ideal solution would be using a mac mini running windows/xbmc, its a small box, its quite, it has dvi out, optical out and can handle some of the higher bit rate videos that I would like to collect or backup from my HD sources.

so my question then is whats the hold up? I noticed a PC port for skinners and python developers why not just move forward? I sorta tend to say its like the old traditional photographers who still avoid using digital..

i think its time? I'm am in no way saying its easy to do and ill keep my old trusty xbox till the day it dies and ill prob end up buying another one off of ebay because I love XBMC , I think a lot of use "end users" feel the same and I think the PC platform allows for the most flexibility in terms of hardware.

sorry if i sound like a broken record, im just looking for some sort of nod from the developers :D

elupus

2007-04-10, 13:59

cause hardly any of the devs feel like it. we like the closed environment of the xbox as it gives us alot of liberties on how to implement stuff without thinking of compatibility issues.

If you are interested in a pc version, i'd say go mediaportal. I know it's not upto par with xbmc, but it is only cause it has less active interested users/developers.

we will move on when a viable alternative to the xbox shows up, currently there is none.

spiff

2007-04-10, 14:06

finas

2007-04-10, 16:48

Spiff,
I really need to comment on this!

I belive that if people "pesker" developers of XBMC about this is because:
- they love XBMC
- they feel that XBMC needs HD support
- they feel that you are the only ones with the power to do something about it.
- they have you in great esteem.
And,
for those that "persker" for HD support on xbox, they do it because:
- they also love the xbox, and would rather have HD support in it than in another platform.

Now, there is actually a way of making people stop perskering developers: keep them informed. Having a sticky thread about the efforts of developing HD support, or not, on XBMC updated regulary with comments from developers about the subject would keep everyone, if not happy, at least informed. Something like possible ways of reaching that goal, and the troubles of implementing them, etc..

Me, like probably you and most of XBMC users would love to have HD support via XBMC, and if this could be done within the XBOX, then much better. It ends up being all your fault ( the developers). You've made such a good program, that no one want's to go back and use other stuff to watch HD content.
It is a fact that no HD support on XBMC will be the end of it. HD is so obviously the future, that no support for it will kill it. I mean, ask yourself: will you be using XBMC in 2-3 years, when HD will be almost mandatory? Will you have to boxes under your tv, one for pre HD and another one for HD content? most tv episodes are released already in HD, and I'm pretty sure that xvid releases will tend to fade over time, just like it happened to svcd releases. So, no HD means that people will switch, and that is really a shame, because we will probably switch to something much worst, but that plays HD :(
I do belive that on or out of xbox, XBMC needs HD support to survive, and you, the developers are the only ones that we can persker in the hope of, errr, well, developing HD support for it. Anyway, if a newcomer started to code support for HD, he would then be a developer, so we would ratter persker him!

you have done a wonderful job, without asking for nothing: we just want more :)

thanks

spiff

2007-04-10, 17:00

i really didnt want to get into this but.

you state absolutely NOTHING new. it's not like we dont know this ourself. there are several threads already where we have clearly stated that WE WILL NOT DO IT. so stop pushing. that's all i'm asking.

to us, the pc is NOT a viable alternative (as elupus pointed out). accept it.

finas

2007-04-10, 17:09

What will you not do ? port to another platform?
The actual issue is HD support and porting is only one of the alternatives.
Elupus is doing quite an effort trying to get HD to run, either by porting a new mplayer.dll or by getting coreavc to run..

finas

2007-04-10, 17:12

I would guess a good solution was to get XBMC to run emulated on the xbox360, when the system is hacked enough!

what do you think about that? Do you like that alternative better ?

spiff

2007-04-10, 17:20

we will not do a full port targeted at running on a pc / something with a full OS and variable hardware.

as for an emulated 360 ver; not interesting at all. no way we could pull off hd in such an environment anyway. a native 360 port on the other hand, now that would be interesting. i definitely see the 360 as a viable alternative IF it ever gets in a state where we can do development on it. but it isnt as of now so discussing it is futile.

we will move on when a viable alternative to the xbox shows up, currently there is none.

gateway69

2007-04-10, 19:14

I hate to say and and I think spiff you let me put in quotes "may" not being seeing the big picture and for the love of god I love my little xbox and xbmc, its the best damn thing out their, how ever so was my vhs player at once and my cool dvd player, XBMC has been around long enough and I think the developers are smart enough to know this.

porting to another console is just out of the question how ever a 360 version would be nice but seriously, pc and the hw, even just limited specs to start with is a great alternative. DO i want another box under my tv making noise? Not really, but with the push the HD its just the way its moving.

I also understand your lets call it bitchyness about this whole idea, since you prob get asked a million times but honestly what is the main issue here? starting over, supporting x amount of hw?

You have to know and deep down in your heart you know a move to "another" platform is the right decision and you can see the community is really outspoken about this as well. With out a community a product is also useless, im not saying that xbmc will die but your telling us that its going to do this soon.

I personally dont think that full HD 720p will run at the proper frame rates, because most shows, movies have a much higher bitrate encoded than the xbox is going to handle. So I could hear you saying well don't use HD, dont use those high bitrate shows, transcode it to something that plays.

come on man, we love this thing, its a great system and the best as I stated in my previous post, but step back for a minute and really look at the big picture instead of charging at the community with such anger.

gateway69

2007-04-10, 19:41

personally i have no interest whatsoever in having a big noisy pc sitting under my tv. and heck NO WAY i'm buying any of apple's expensive white'n'shiny hypeware.

you want a port? THEN DO IT YOURSELF.

i'm so tired of ppl peskering us over this.

honestly If I could help I would, im one of those guys who tries to help when ever possible. Unfortunately I cant code any c, im a web developer so I can do alot of other things.

As for the mac mini, nobody is asking for a port to the mac mini I was simply stating if their was a PC port I would buy a mac mini install windows on it and use that box. Its really small, has really decent video out with dvi support, and optical out, and no noise, so for me personally instead of a pc next to my tv i would use this box.

ultrabrutal

2007-04-10, 21:20

gateway69

2007-04-10, 21:34

gateway, you do not see the challange and the problems ahead. XBMC rely on the Xbox's kernel which is a very small Windoze 2000 and DirectX. Besides that there is the XDK. All Xboxes have the same specs (in theory) which makes it easy to development and test for.

You are quite wrong with that statement, I have worked in video games for over 9 years with various technology (quake engine) , our own engine etc before leavening games and doing my own things. Many of my very close friends worked on the various consoles from nintendo, xbox, 360 and ps3 now so I know the pains a developer goes though.

Haven said that, their is also alot of great tools and development systems for the PC, not to mention mplayer, works quite well on their and is pretty well supported for the PC environment.

nobody is asking the dev team to support every known video and audio card ont he pc, in fact I think a very specific video and audio hardware should be chosen, and if and when others can be added.

Also don't get me wrong, im not saying this is EASY, but some steps need to be taken in order to continue supporting the future of video and its formats. While Im happy to read about the GPU potential, I don't think it will be enough to support proper bit rate 720p and will never support 1080i/p.

I'm not sure about most people on here but im a fan of higher quality videos, I see hd-dvd and blu-ray being one of the last physical media types and everything moving towards down loadable content.

While the developers might not want money, moving such a project into the pc world frees allows them to charge a price for the software if 'they' wanted to, and while free is great for many of us I for one would pay for a product like this and love to support it if I knew their was a future for it.

nothing comes close to this software on the market, and well it would be great to have it on the PC for the future.

I did just read yesterday that the 360 spring update will support h2.64 and Mpeg 4 (verdict still out of it does xvid) so we can see console systems moving forward with better video compression technology.

hey if it never happens then it doesn't, but that will be a sad day when I have to stop using my xbox and find something else (apple tv v2.0 hw, hacked to the gills) or something else, I refuse to use windows media center..

rant off.

nate12o6

2007-04-10, 21:39

What are the chances of the xbmc team picking up some hardware guys and coming out with your own platform? You can even sell it and make a profit. Or you could just give out the specs so people to do it themselves. There is a lot of open hardware out there for set top boxes that do not make noise.

I have no idea what would go into making the mini os for something like this but it would be nice to get a devs opinion on it.

ultrabrutal

2007-04-11, 00:09

gateway69

2007-04-11, 01:03

gate, I play 720p xvid/divx oar content pretty fine and it looks amazing. High resolution and no pixelation on my 50" plasma. Of course I would like to be able to play back 1080i content and x264 content which might just be possible via the GPU. I for one am not writing off the old box and I too, like the devs, see no other box/platform that suits the needs for XBMC to migrate. Use Mediaportal or some of the other mediacenters out there or come up with some ideas/solutions for XBMC instead of trying to burry the old box

thanks, i have been reading up on media portal, and it seems like the current path I would need to go to to really play x264 videos, and not low bit rate ones.

---
episode of 24, in x264 open source
3149kbps video and ac3 @ 448kpbs..
---

im pretty sure the xbmc wont be playing this back.

speaking of your playback what is your bit rate and size, and are these your own encodes, because anything that i have lets say found it encoded at a pretty high bitrate and barfs on xbmc.

I also keep hearing talk about the gpu , but is their any really official word on whats the progress of this or if its really just a pipe dream?

J_K_M_A_N

2007-04-11, 01:13

Also don't get me wrong, im not saying this is EASY, but some steps NEED to be taken in order to continue supporting the future of video and its formats.

That is the part I have a problem with. You say it NEEDS to be done but it doesn't. They don't NEED to support ANY format of ANYTHING. They do this for free. I for one am grateful they do it at all. Would I like to see HD stuff playing? Sure. But I don't think it NEEDS to be done by them.

Why don't you just start spamming the web asking for people to come up with a program that will fit your needs. State that they will be working for free and that some people will hound them if there are any errors. See what kind of response you get.

I am surprised that there are still so many people working on XBMC still. Some of the posts on this board are amazing. I have asked some pretty stupid questions myself but I don't get demanding and defensive like some do here. I try like hell to search for the answer BEFORE I ask. Many people ask first and ask later instead of searching.

Just my observation.

J_K_M_A_N

jmarshall

2007-04-11, 01:29

x264 in 720p or higher is NOT going to happen on xbox1, period. GPU assisted or not, that type of decoding will still be beyond xbox1's capabilities. Similarly, 1080i xvid is a pipe dream as well. 720p xvid is already doable in some circumstances, and GPU assistance (if it ever eventuates - I doubt it personally) will just supply a bit of headroom.

As for other hardware platforms:

Obviously, HD is the way of the future, however the majority of the world is simply not there yet. None of the active devs (to my knowledge) even have an HD capable TV!

Thus, Team XBMC is not interested at this time. We welcome anyone and everyone who wants to take our codebase and port it to some other platform - hell, we'll quite happily assist anyone who wants to take this on, insofar as helping them understand the codebase etc, but this is not something that we are personally going to undertake.

Cheers,
Jonathan

gateway69

2007-04-11, 02:19

That is the part I have a problem with. You say it NEEDS to be done but it doesn't. They don't NEED to support ANY format of ANYTHING. They do this for free. I for one am grateful they do it at all. Would I like to see HD stuff playing? Sure. But I don't think it NEEDS to be done by them.

Why don't you just start spamming the web asking for people to come up with a program that will fit your needs. State that they will be working for free and that some people will hound them if there are any errors. See what kind of response you get.

I am surprised that there are still so many people working on XBMC still. Some of the posts on this board are amazing. I have asked some pretty stupid questions myself but I don't get demanding and defensive like some do here. I try like hell to search for the answer BEFORE I ask. Many people ask first and ask later instead of searching.

Just my observation.

J_K_M_A_N

you are completely correct, i shouldn't of used the word Need, and honestly i did find out that what my needs are, really fit in with the media portal stuff thats also being done for the pc, I just hate to let go of my xbox, when the time is come and thank god that hd keeps on spinning :P

ultrabrutal

2007-04-11, 08:56

gateway, my own encodes using plugh's modfied xvid codec plays with no drops. downloaded chd content plays with some drops. I have high hops that elupus can fix the dvdplayer codec so audio will be in sync with nearly no drops in video. this is good enough for me currently as there are alternatives to x264 online. when xvid and divx are dropped totally infavor of x264, maybe I'll look to my Xbox360 which should be able to play more non ms codecs after the may update coming...

nate12o6

2007-04-11, 18:23

I would like to get some of the devs opinion on using XP embedded for the next platform for xbmc. I know a few of the devs reasoning for not wanting to port to pc was because they didnt want to have a full os and an noisy machine. With xp embedded you have a modularized os and with a set top pc you have a quiet machine.

PC. I am not asking yall to do this i just would like to know your opinion on this.

nate12o6

2007-04-11, 18:29

I would like to get some of the devs opinion on using XP embedded for the next platform for xbmc. I know a few of the devs reasoning for not wanting to port to pc was because they didnt want to have a full os and an noisy machine. With xp embedded you have a modularized os and with a set top pc you have a quiet machine.

PS. I am not asking yall to do this i just would like to know your opinion on this.

Gir_Ver_2.0

2007-04-11, 21:37

gzusrawx

2007-04-11, 21:58

I agree with them when it comes to waiting for an appropriate console to be modded because it's going to be a lot harder to develop for when the hardware for the new platform can vary soo much. That's why the xbox works soo well for the job and will continue to since most of the people on here don't use HD anyways. I also find it a lot more convenient to have a system that doesn't have such a bloated os underneath it. If you were to run this same software on a 733mtz windows pc you would have all kinds of performance issues and on a new platform the less underlying software running in the backround the better. Development on a pc is fine but I don't think it's end all solution.

J_K_M_A_N

2007-04-11, 22:09

Well I am working with a few friends of mine at the Oregon Institute of Technology software dept to take the skinning port and turn it to something more full featured. Probably won't have anything done on it till the summer but the entire dept was interested in this.

One note to the devs, more and more of these threads will start popping up, I hate to be blunt but you leave us no choice. The problem will not go away but will get worse as content changes (ala the OP) and working xboxs get harder to find. Telling everyone to basically "shut up we don't wanna hear it" isn't helping and quite frankly reminds me of thee snob attitude of apple back in the early days of computing. Your concern about "a noisy box under the tv" is a childish and unfounded excuse, i can build a PC right now for less than any modern moddable console (PS3 360)that is completely silent without even a fan on the CPU, the xbox makes more noise than most of the PC's in my house as it is and my machines are top end specs!

My last thought (and I mean last as I just can't take the attitudes of the devs here anymore) is that with the current dev's line of thought XBMC WILL DIE, porting to another console, if that happens, is only a stop gap measure that will only have us back right here with the same issues(with fewer users as people will get sick of it) . No matter what platform you decide to force your users to switch to it will go out of production and no longer be viable at some point, only the PC platform will last into the foreseeable future. Ignoring that fact will, well... do nothing to you, but it will affect the thousands if not tens of thousands (or more) users that depend on your creation. Nothing like abandoning the population of a small state to make you feel good about yourselves.....

Goodbye-

I would just like to say to the devs...I do NOT agree with this post.

Where do you get off telling them that they have an attitude?!? THEY DO THIS FOR FREE!!! Get that through your thick skull. Every single one of them could quit tomorrow. You act like if they don't get your support, they will have no life. This isn't their job where they have to listen to their customers or they go out of business. THEY AREN'T IN BUSINESS! If you don't like it, go somewhere else you ungrateful prick! The code is there for you to take and use however you want. SO DO IT! There is nothing stopping you.

GOD! I can't believe some of the CRAP I read here. When I first came to these boards I thought spiff was a little quick to jump on people who didn't read enough or asked for things out of the realm of possibilities but reading posts like this, I can COMPLETELY understand.

Again devs, don't listen to people like this. Whatever you add is great. If it all ended tomorrow, I would be bummed but still be grateful for what you gave us. It is and always will be a GREAT piece of software.

J_K_M_A_N

gateway69

2007-04-11, 22:47

I would just like to say to the devs...I do NOT agree with this post.

Where do you get off telling them that they have an attitude?!? THEY DO THIS FOR FREE!!! Get that through your thick skull. Every single one of them could quit tomorrow. You act like if they don't get your support, they will have no life. This isn't their job where they have to listen to their customers or they go out of business. THEY AREN'T IN BUSINESS! If you don't like it, go somewhere else you ungrateful prick! The code is there for you to take and use however you want. SO DO IT! There is nothing stopping you.

GOD! I can't believe some of the CRAP I read here. When I first came to these boards I thought spiff was a little quick to jump on people who didn't read enough or asked for things out of the realm of possibilities but reading posts like this, I can COMPLETELY understand.

Again devs, don't listen to people like this. Whatever you add is great. If it all ended tomorrow, I would be bummed but still be grateful for what you gave us. It is and always will be a GREAT piece of software.

J_K_M_A_N

you know, their are valid arguments with this post, and of course some of the language that comes across from both sides is frustration. Not thinking fw ie abandoning the xbox will only lead the the demise of xbmc software. Waiting for a new hack on the 360 or Ps3 leads to yet another whole cycle of dev.

Some of you may not care about HD but its here, and more and more releases, people encoding stuff are coming out in this format.

you cant ague with the fact that HD is coming and their should be some sort of movement forward for a product to survive.

and yes nobody has to do anything, its just this back and forth bickering thats really dumb.

pike

2007-04-11, 23:42

Livin

2007-04-12, 00:15

Well I am working with a few friends of mine at the Oregon Institute of Technology software dept to take the skinning port and turn it to something more full featured. Probably won't have anything done on it till the summer but the entire dept was interested in this.

One note to the devs, more and more of these threads will start popping up, I hate to be blunt but you leave us no choice. The problem will not go away but will get worse as content changes (ala the OP) and working xboxs get harder to find. Telling everyone to basically "shut up we don't wanna hear it" isn't helping and quite frankly reminds me of thee snob attitude of apple back in the early days of computing. Your concern about "a noisy box under the tv" is a childish and unfounded excuse, i can build a PC right now for less than any modern moddable console (PS3 360)that is completely silent without even a fan on the CPU, the xbox makes more noise than most of the PC's in my house as it is and my machines are top end specs!

My last thought (and I mean last as I just can't take the attitudes of the devs here anymore) is that with the current dev's line of thought XBMC WILL DIE, porting to another console, if that happens, is only a stop gap measure that will only have us back right here with the same issues(with fewer users as people will get sick of it) . No matter what platform you decide to force your users to switch to it will go out of production and no longer be viable at some point, only the PC platform will last into the foreseeable future. Ignoring that fact will, well... do nothing to you, but it will affect the thousands if not tens of thousands (or more) users that depend on your creation. Nothing like abandoning the population of a small state to make you feel good about yourselves.....

Goodbye-

I'd LOVE to see it happen and hope you and your friends can get this done!

The major issue I see...

You may need to regularly update the PC emulator for code changes that occur in the XBOX version of XBMC. Otherwise the community will lose any updates. I'd hate to see a branch of the code and lose the amazing talent that currently devs for XBMC.

ultrabrutal

2007-04-12, 00:53

Girl Ver 2.0, bah!

There are sold like 24 millon Xboxes which is even more than the old C64 which you can still buy today! There will be working Xboxes around for the next 20+ years! Something must be wrong with your Xbox because my 4 are virtually silent with the fan at 2% watching movies.

HD is already possible in XBMC and I'm very happy with the quality.
I just watched a whole 1280x720 HD movie on my 50" plasma with no drops and in perfect audio sync using the new dvdplayer codec which was added recently.
A 2 hour movie at 4.37 gb using divx6 codec with DTS sound reencoded from a HD-DVD andstreamed from my NAS... Ofcourse x264 playback would be nice but divx/xvid are still great alternatives and work for the most part fine with XBMC

I wish you luck with your project which I believe will utterly fail - but hey! prove me wrong

JKMAN, word!

gateway69

2007-04-12, 02:51

Girl Ver 2.0, bah!

I wish you luck with your project which I believe will utterly fail - but hey! prove me wrong

JKMAN, word!

you know, you guys are to brutal, whats a matter with trying to improve something or make alternative options, kinda shows that your an ass or acting like some silly 12 year old. I never meant to start this thread as something that allows people to bash each other, I think/thought the internet has grown up from those days.

so what bit rates, formats where your videos in that you claim played back with our issues on your xbox?

J_K_M_A_N

2007-04-12, 03:25

you know, you guys are to brutal, whats a matter with trying to improve something or make alternative options, kinda shows that your an ass or acting like some silly 12 year old. I never meant to start this thread as something that allows people to bash each other, I think/thought the internet has grown up from those days.

so what bit rates, formats where your videos in that you claim played back with our issues on your xbox?

The problem is not trying to improve something. The problem is I keep seeing people say you HAVE to move on to another platform. You HAVE to do this you HAVE to do that. They don't have to do a DAMN THING! It has been suggested SEVERAL times that xbmc be ported to another platform. The devs have said several times, NO. Why do people keep saying, if you don't, xbmc will die? It won't die. It may not be used as much or by as many people, it may not keep up with the latest codecs or formats but if it stopped tomorrow, it would still be very useful as is.

At any time, anyone can take the source code and port it. It is open source. If you want it ported, do it yourself or find someone else to do it for you. STOP TELLING THE DEVS THEY HAVE TO PORT IT IF THEY WANT TO KEEP UP WITH THE TIMES. They have said many times that they aren't interested.

That is the problem as I see it. If XBMC was ported to a PC and supported HD, I would probably use it over my xbox with xbmc now. But I am not EVER going to tell the devs they HAVE to work on that.

I don't think there is a problem with discussing it. The problem is how it is discussed.

J_K_M_A_N

gateway69

2007-04-12, 04:59

The problem is not trying to improve something. The problem is I keep seeing people say you HAVE to move on to another platform. You HAVE to do this you HAVE to do that. They don't have to do a DAMN THING! It has been suggested SEVERAL times that xbmc be ported to another platform. The devs have said several times, NO. Why do people keep saying, if you don't, xbmc will die? It won't die. It may not be used as much or by as many people, it may not keep up with the latest codecs or formats but if it stopped tomorrow, it would still be very useful as is.

At any time, anyone can take the source code and port it. It is open source. If you want it ported, do it yourself or find someone else to do it for you. STOP TELLING THE DEVS THEY HAVE TO PORT IT IF THEY WANT TO KEEP UP WITH THE TIMES. They have said many times that they aren't interested.

That is the problem as I see it. If XBMC was ported to a PC and supported HD, I would probably use it over my xbox with xbmc now. But I am not EVER going to tell the devs they HAVE to work on that.

I don't think there is a problem with discussing it. The problem is how it is discussed.

J_K_M_A_N

as i have stated before i retracted my statement with "have" in it, but once again this falls on deaf ears.. anyhow its a mute point, i know where people stand and I can see 1/2 wanting it and the other 1/2 not, so it doesn't really matter what people care anymore :P

we are all grown ups here (i hope) so lets move on

halfelite

2007-04-12, 05:01

I would agree the xbox is a dieing breed. but the only reason xbmc became so good is they loved working with the xbox and dev for a closed platform.
I would love to see xbmc ported to linux or windows. But nothing we say will change what they are doing. If they said they would dev on a differnt platform i would donate a tv or money for a ps3 or anything to get it up and running. But they do what they like.

J_K_M_A_N

2007-04-12, 06:47

...i know where people stand and I can see 1/2 wanting it and the other 1/2 not, so it doesn't really matter what people care anymore

I don't think that statement is correct. I would bet a lot of people would use a PC version if it was at least as good as xbmc and supported HD content. I know I would. I love HD content on my 50" screen as much as the next guy. I wouldn't like the boot times but I would leave it running 24/7.

I get that you didn't mean to say 'have' but you stated your position a couple of times even after elupus and spiff said they have no interest in it.

I also understand your lets call it bitchyness about this whole idea, since you prob get asked a million times but honestly what is the main issue here?

What does it matter what the issue is? Leave it alone. You can continue to talk about porting it all you want but leave them out of the equation.

The second post I made was directed at Gir_Ver_2.0. He came in and said the team had an attitude. Then you came in and said we were brutal. It is because there were at least three things said about the team and their lack of desire to port it. Reading that over and over is brutal.

No one is saying don't talk about it. They are just saying leave the team out of it. (Other than opinion. But search first.)

J_K_M_A_N

ultrabrutal

2007-04-12, 08:36

Yup, totally agree with jkman. Gate, I'm not 12 years old but I'm feed up too with people like girlver2. If he really was a dev he could implement true HD playback in XBMC. None of the devs have HDTV's and they do this in their sparetime for fun - not to make girlver2 happy. And people give them shit about it? What will happen? It will stop being fun and the result? No more features added at all. So stop being a pain in the ass and be greatful. Find someone who are interested in adding true HD playback and get them on board.
Bitrate you can calculate from my info or you can search any torrent site for "CHD xvid" or "CHD divx". I also record DVB-S 1080i mpeg2's and reencode them as divx with plugh's modded codec. XBMC plays HD just fine in many cases. Just not x264 or encodes which are over the top. I don't agree with the devs when they say it's never going to happen. I still think it's possible to pull off with optimization and using the GPU, I just hope some one gets motivated but at this rate I only see it being pulled in the other direction

Gir_Ver_2.0

2007-04-12, 09:34

I clearly stated what My opinion is of what WILL happen should things continue down this path. I also clearly stated that nothing would change for the devs, try reading the entire post before throwing a tantrum. I also clearly stated that those that would suffer are those of us who use it, again not the devs.
As for my devs attitude post it referred not only to this thread but all threads from .. oh i would say 8 out of 10 devs that I have read in the past few years of following this project. Some are nice, but most have no manners at all when dealing with people, argue it all you want but the proof is everywhere on the forums. However, this is not uncommon among programmers or forum moderator / irc room mod types, it is everywhere because many of these people (posters included) do not pay any attention to how they say things, if people talked to each other in real life like they do on forums...well the streets would be soaked with blood.. but I digress.

Without any confusion let me state that I do agree, without reservation, the devs have done wonderful things with this project, and that this software is the greatest thing for media centers since full color nude printing. Hence all the calls from myself and everyone else that requests it to keep the project alive as long as possible, the only way to ensure a lifetime of usefulness (and innovation) is a port to PC.

spiff

2007-04-12, 10:16

did you EVER stop to think that the reason you find us to be impolite / have bad manners is because of the way you act against us?

in this post (and others before them, which was my main point at the start!) i have been called brutal, i have been said to have an attitude, you have slammed my manners, we are told that we are stubborn, childish and somehow you imply that we are "killing" xbmc and that we dont have the right to do so??? all of this we obviously have to endure, accept and let pass in silence because ... we made this app for you to use for free???? LOGICAL! if we decided we wanted to change xbmc into a controller program for a panty washing machine, who would you be to complain? NOBODY. you have contributed ZILCH to this project. IT IS NOT YOUR PROJECT. WE are free to do whatever WE want. you dont like what we do? well, we provide full source code so YOU can do whatever YOU want.

ït so easy for you to judge us, since you are just one person that has ME ME ME in his head. we have to deal with the whole merry gang of ME ME ME's.

another example see the imdb background scan thread. try talking like that to somebody in real life which you are not the boss over. see what happens.
everybody just loves that the first response they get on their work is 'now do this'. yeah, sure.

as for your port, sure go a head. i'm absolutely sure it will fail miserably. in my experience nobody that talks about coding long before any code show up, can do what they claim. code speaks. you just speak crap.

jmarshall

2007-04-12, 10:40

If and when we decide to cease development, all that will be "lost" will be the future development that we would have otherwise done. The source isn't going to disappear, it will outlive all of us, just like it has outlived many of the good developers that have come and gone throughout the duration of this project.

Indeed, you yourself have indicated you are prepared to work on a PC port - great! We look forward to what you come up with and, as was stated earlier, will do our best to assist by offering advice etc.

Remember: We the developers don't do it for you - we do it for us. Very occasionally we may make some changes that don't have a direct benefit for us, but 99% of the stuff we develop, we develop for our own use. If something isn't going to be a benefit to us, we're unlikely to bother implementing it.

Cheers,
Jonathan

ultrabrutal

2007-04-12, 13:21

jm, yep and that's why I wish we could put hdtv's in all your hands hehe. It's amazing to think that none of the devs have ever seen XBMC at it's best. I'm quite happy with the current state of HD playback. It's almost perfect for my use. Ofcourse it would be nice with x264 support but I for one can live without it for now and will continue to use XBMC and promote it long to come

Hail XBMC! Kill the posers!

mjsmyth

2007-04-12, 14:54

www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/default.mspx
www.gallm.com/
www.team-mediaportal.com/
http://sites.mobile.yahoo.com/go/tv/index
www.mythtv.org/
www.sagetv.com/
www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtv/
www.gbpvr.com/

Are all Media Centers for the PC. I am sure there are many many more out there that I have forgotten to list. If they don't do what you want them to do, then whey not contact the makers / developers? Ask for them to include what you want, see if they will do it.

XBMC is designed for the Xbox, thats what the XB part of XBMC stands for! The closest thing too it on the PC is Mediaportal. Rather than hound developers here for functions that more than likely will not be developed for XBMC, why not contribute something positive towards Mediaportal and help develop it to get close to the functionality of XBMC.

As for XBMC on the PC.. Well it has been mentioned here a million times that due to the large variations in hardware, it would be extrememly difficult to develop XBMC on the PC. As is there are a multitude of questions with regards to why things do not work on one xbox but do on another and they are meant to be the same spec!

Can you imagine the questions that would be raised and the abuse thrown at developers if they released a PC version that only worked with certain hardware? I have worked in IT for a long time and I have seen to PC's, each with the same spec, with the same software, act completly differently.

Where does that leave XBMC? On the Xbox actually. If and when it moves, I would imagine that it would move to another closed enviroment, one where initial development may be difficult, but at least it is in a controlled enviroment. Hopefully the Xbox 360 may be that console.

With regards to supporting High Def... I would have thought that with HD being the be all and end all of Video and Audio, that anyone wanting to watch HD would already be doing so with HD equipment. If you are such an audiophile / videophile that you feel you need HD, then why not purchase HD Cable or Satellite, Blueray or HD-DVd drives to go alongside your 90" TV!

I came late to the XBMC show, only having got it installed about 18 months ago. Not only do I have 2 installs, but I have been installing it for friends also, and they love it too. Well done to the developers of XBMC and to the developers of all the little add ons that make it the best media center out there.

anyway, these are just my thoughts, flame away if you feel the need.
mj

J_K_M_A_N

2007-04-12, 16:04

Good post mjsmyth. I really liked the part about contacting people making media centers for the PC and hounding them to make their product more like xbmc. Don't forget to mention that if they don't, they will fall by the wayside. ;)

J_K_M_A_N

jgawera

2007-04-12, 17:44

mjsmyth, You raise some interesting points, great post.

To all those hounding XBMC Devs with requests to port to the PC, I would say that you might like to think about a different aproach to achieving your goal.

Firstly, clearly define your goal. From the general reading of threads like this, A general goal seems to be to get a media center running on hardware more capable than the xbox. The media center should provide the functionality and flexibility of XBMC and try to be as slick.

Some points you may like to consider are:
What is it about XBMC that makes it so good.
What does XBMC on the xbox not provide at the moment.
What don't you like about XBMC.
What would you add to XBMC.

Apart from hounding developers, there are other ways of trying to achieve your goals:
Contact developers of other media center applications with detailed suggestions on how you believe they can improve their application.
Write your own media center application which has all the features you want.
Contact a hardware manufacturer and propose they release a media center box that runs a variant of XBMC for their hardware (they may be interested in porting XBMC to their hardware rather than starting from scratch).

It's not always about porting code to different platforms. Maybe porting ideas is a better way to go. Once you've figured out what you like about XBMC. It should be possible to implement those ideas in any language on any platform.
I think that is the way to go if you want to experience XBMC on other hardware. Porting ideas need not be done by developers.

<standard rant disclaimer/>
J

ashlar

2007-04-12, 19:02

There are sold like 24 millon Xboxes which is even more than the old C64 which you can still buy today! There will be working Xboxes around for the next 20+ years! Something must be wrong with your Xbox because my 4 are virtually silent with the fan at 2% watching movies.I wonder why, then, the world isn't full of people gaming on their trusty C64. Thank God the world tends to move forwards and not backwards.HD is already possible in XBMC and I'm very happy with the quality.
I just watched a whole 1280x720 HD movie on my 50" plasma with no drops and in perfect audio sync using the new dvdplayer codec which was added recently.
A 2 hour movie at 4.37 gb using divx6 codec with DTS sound reencoded from a HD-DVD andstreamed from my NAS... Ofcourse x264 playback would be nice but divx/xvid are still great alternatives and work for the most part fine with XBMC Sure, until you consider how re-encoding each and every movie you'd like to watch in the future is a major pain in the ass. Do you seriously think that if XBMC had required people to re-encode everything they wanted to watch on it, it would have been anywhere near as successful? It's a temporary solution at best (and incidentally one that's already available, in a far better way, using Xbox 360 and encoding to WMV 9 Advanced Profile, a far better codec than the xvid or divx you're using).

ashlar

2007-04-12, 19:12

gateway69

2007-04-12, 20:47

Having read the whole thread, I think one thing people are dismissing when considering the constant requests for upgrades to a beefier platform is the "love" that we have for XBMC.

It's the underdog that rose to bite the big corporations on their asses, sure we could already shift to an HTPC, install Media Portal or whatever and have 95% of what we would need, if not more.

But it wouldn't be XBMC anymore and, speaking for myself, the sort of affection that I have towards the program itself... that's not something rational, I understand. But it should be something that makes developers proud and happy, not the opposite.

I don't know what you do for a living, but it's a rare thing indeed to be able, in one's life, to touch the lives of thousands of other people, giving them something good and making them happy. You are surely entitled to say something like "we do this for ourselves, fuck the rest of the world, we don't care". It would be quite shallow, though, wouldn't it?

I think you have hit the nail on the head so to speak. Any of us that speak out about xbmc as far as moving to another platform love this little box we have now but we are also realists and can see in the foreseeable future HD content being used more and more. I personally don't want to use Apple TV, Front Row or build some box that doesn't have all the cool features and thats why i love xbmc alot. I also share the developers attitude about things because I also have built a product and released it to the public for free so I know how a community can ask for things that your not quite wanting to do.

What I havent really heard and maybe i missed a thread is the exact legit reasons about their though process as to why this isn't a good idea to move to another platform lets just say PC..

I think their is way to much focus on the word "have" or "have to" its really taking out of context and as you pointed out its our love for this product that pushes us forward we are just looking for thoughts, ideas, reasons in a more tangible manner than just "we wont do it", but as i said maybe i missed a thread as to the exact real reasons.

ultrabrutal

2007-04-12, 21:00

ashlar,
You obviously don't know jack about the good old C64 scene - the mother of all scenes. Times were different back then and people still go back to relive those days, just like some people drive old sports cars etc. Computers can be used for other things than gaming you know

I'm not really interrested in keeping 25 or 50 gb movies on my NAS. That's way too expensive in harddrive space and if I cannot see any big difference on my setup (50" plasma with component cable) I quiet happy with such a movie reencoded to 4 or 8 gb. Just like people has always reencoded DVD movies to VCD, SVCD, miniDVD, XVCD and DIVX/XVID - to save space! Of course it would be nicer to use a better codec than xvid/divx but for now I'm quiet happy with the quality (and I'm known as a perfectionist) and I think most will too if they saw the output (those I've shown it to have been stun)

J_K_M_A_N

2007-04-12, 21:19

I think their is way to much focus on the word "have" or "have to" its really taking out of context and as you pointed out its our love for this product that pushes us forward we are just looking for thoughts, ideas, reasons in a more tangible manner than just "we wont do it", but as i said maybe i missed a thread as to the exact real reasons.

I don't think any of the devs have said it is a bad idea to port it to a PC other than the fact that it would be quite hard and they don't want to try because of the headaches. There are way too many variables. I am pretty sure ALL of them would say, go right ahead and do it yourself. (And I believe many of them have)

If I made a program on a PC and gave it away and a bunch of people kept saying, you have to make this for a mac because it is the best software ever. I would say, go right ahead. I don't program for macs. I don't like macs. I am not going to go through the trouble of doing that. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want someone to port it to a mac. It just means I am not going to do it myself. There is nothing in that for me but headaches. I think that is pretty much what the devs are saying. They use it on an xbox. If you want it somewhere else, go right ahead. Just quit bugging them about doing it for you. (Unless you are going to pay them crap loads of money. Even that may not be enough for some of them though.)

Is that a good enough reason? (I am being serious here) Isn't saying they don't feel like doing it a good enough reason?

J_K_M_A_N

gateway69

2007-04-12, 21:39

I don't think any of the devs have said it is a bad idea to port it to a PC other than the fact that it would be quite hard and they don't want to try because of the headaches. There are way too many variables. I am pretty sure ALL of them would say, go right ahead and do it yourself. (And I believe many of them have)

If I made a program on a PC and gave it away and a bunch of people kept saying, you have to make this for a mac because it is the best software ever. I would say, go right ahead. I don't program for macs. I don't like macs. I am not going to go through the trouble of doing that. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want someone to port it to a mac. It just means I am not going to do it myself. There is nothing in that for me but headaches. I think that is pretty much what the devs are saying. They use it on an xbox. If you want it somewhere else, go right ahead. Just quit bugging them about doing it for you. (Unless you are going to pay them crap loads of money. Even that may not be enough for some of them though.)

Is that a good enough reason? (I am being serious here) Isn't saying they don't feel like doing it a good enough reason?

J_K_M_A_N

we are going around in circles with this topic, and I think im gonna bow out of it, i read all points from both sides, some are heated or taking in the wrong context.. I have my eye on media portal and we are setting up a test box now on one of our extra mac minis.. while not as nice as xbmc it offers what im looking for..

so thanks for everyone speaking their minds thats what forums are for, but when it comes to quibling about shit I would rather step away..

:sniffle:

Gir_Ver_2.0

2007-04-12, 22:43

another example see the imdb background scan thread. try talking like that to somebody in real life which you are not the boss over. see what happens.
everybody just loves that the first response they get on their work is 'now do this'. yeah, sure.

Ummm? This is my one and only posting on that thread...

On this line, would it then be possible to set a toggle in options to have it automatically in the background grab the IMDB (or other source) information for files that don't have it upon playing them?

how is that bossy, rude, or anything other than offering an idea?

Gir_Ver_2.0

2007-04-12, 22:44

that and then a joke about better coffee......

gzusrawx

2007-04-12, 22:46

I think it's because that question has already been asked and answered a few times before.

Gir_Ver_2.0

2007-04-12, 22:50

And thus offering a suggestion on the suggestion forum is bossy because it was asked before? Ok then I will apologize that I missed it, however I still fail to see how it was bossy but at this point whatever....

gzusrawx

2007-04-12, 23:14

Most of the "bickering" most likely results from misunderstanding.

Gir_Ver_2.0

2007-04-13, 00:48

Most of the "bickering" most likely results from misunderstanding.

I will definitely agree on this one!

pike

2007-04-13, 01:00

the name of this thread says it all basically... it's provoking and set the tone for all "discussions" inside

RockDawg

2007-04-13, 02:48

the name of this thread says it all basically... it's provoking and set the tone for all "discussions" inside

I agree there. The thread title is pretty bold and can be construed as confrontational. It would've been better served worded differently.

As for the "imdb background scan thread"... I think it is a classic example of some of the problems regarding attitudes around here. A poster makes a feature request and Spiff gets bent out of shape because the poster apparently made the request too early in the morning?? Or because he takes a simple feature request as a user "screaming more more more"?? :oo: What the heck is that all about? It seems like some are viewed as ungrateful no matter what they do. How in the heck can a mod/dev take any post from that thread as impolite, rude, or even demanding at all?? And that certainly isn't the only thread around here like that.

Anyhow, I agree we don't have the right to expect anything out of team XBMC, but some people have hit the nail on the head when they say that people wanting XBMC on a different (more versatile) platform only want that because they love XBMC so much and wish to keep using it for the foreseeable future. That doesn't mean any of you should be obligated to make it happen, but I would think you would at least understand and appreciate the love of your creation. I certainly hope some day there XBMC can continue on some other platform and be able to handle full HD video and audio, but if it doesn’t happen then it was at least great while it lasted!

That's my two cents for what little it's worth.

Gir_Ver_2.0

2007-04-13, 07:56

On the port front I have begun talks with the creator of the first xbox emulator (well he started it and the project was abandoned ages ago) and discussed with him what it would take for my software guys to get it 100% with XBMC. He has offered to help get it all put together as the only reason why he abandoned it in the first place was the pain in the butt it was to get retail games to play, with the source code for XBMC he agrees that it would not be too difficult for that one task.

I will be presenting it to my guys this weekend and will attempt to get staff support from the faculty at the Tech college here to get more people on it. Depending on what happens in the next week will determine which path we go marching down (emulate the xbox or a full port) they both have their ups and downs so who knows. Those of you who support our trying, I give you my thanks, for those who scoff i say, well.. I can't really say what I want to say :)

jmarshall

2007-04-13, 08:44

Surely you're going to get it going based on the already ported source in XBMC_PC? Why bother with emulation when most of the stuff is already ported? Develop a videorenderer for win32 and you're mostly there. Emulation of xbox directx functions may be interesting for the .vis and .scr stuff, however, though IMO just rewriting the ones you want may be quicker.

Whichever route you intend to go, I wish you good luck.

pike

2007-04-13, 08:46

On the port front I have begun talks with the creator of the first xbox emulator (well he started it and the project was abandoned ages ago) and discussed with him what it would take for my software guys to get it 100% with XBMC. He has offered to help get it all put together as the only reason why he abandoned it in the first place was the pain in the butt it was to get retail games to play, with the source code for XBMC he agrees that it would not be too difficult for that one task.

Let's see if I can recall his name... (/failure)
But I know he never finished any of his Xbox related projects, so that's a poor start right there. He was real good at ignoring all emails sent from me though.

But once again, I really do wish you the best of luck

ultrabrutal

2007-04-13, 09:24

pike, caustik is his name... caustik.com/cxbx

I agree with jm about the easiest road to take, however downside is windows running in the background. But caustiks project could be used on Windows do get "My programs" to run other homebrew and games hehe

spiff

2007-04-13, 10:56

if you don't appreciate why that comment made me irritated, try putting yourself in my shoes. i had just filled a request (took me hours), and all i get in return is DO MORE. is it so much to ask for that i get some feedback on what i just added first? also, each request should be put in its own thread (there's a violation right there). plus i wasnt in the best of moods after had being called childish and other stuff by the very same guy.....

Gir_Ver_2.0

2007-04-13, 13:00

Jezz_X

2007-04-13, 13:30

sigh I too would like to see somthing like this happen but in the end I can live with the fact that it dosn't. XBMC does all that I would need it to do and much more but I guess I don't have a HDTV either so I see no point in playing it yet

I will be forever greatfull of jmarshall porting the skinning and scripting engine to the PC because being a team skinning it means I can make it look good for you people with HDTV plasma and LCDs. And saves me coutless amount of time transfering things to and from my xbox to skin it

I live in hope that one day someone will get proper video and music playback working in xbmc_pc but I am far from the point of demanding it just for my selfish use because I realize all the hard work and time that goes into programming xbmc for a net return of nothing (other than public praise).

The best we can do is hope that one day someone who actually knows what they are doing decides it is somthing they really want and takes the considerable time involved to complete it.

Other than that no matter how much people ask or demand or complain its just not going to happen because its a do it for love thing its not like xbmc devs are on a weekly wage for writing it

pike

2007-04-14, 08:30

RockDawg, I've moderated your post.
A post like that serves no purpose on a forum.
And since it was directed at 1 individual, sending a Private Message is preferred.

Thanks for understanding

LaTropa64

2007-04-14, 09:54

Having read the whole thread, I think one thing people are dismissing when considering the constant requests for upgrades to a beefier platform is the "love" that we have for XBMC.

It's the underdog that rose to bite the big corporations on their asses, sure we could already shift to an HTPC, install Media Portal or whatever and have 95% of what we would need, if not more.

But it wouldn't be XBMC anymore and, speaking for myself, the sort of affection that I have towards the program itself... that's not something rational, I understand. But it should be something that makes developers proud and happy, not the opposite.

I don't know what you do for a living, but it's a rare thing indeed to be able, in one's life, to touch the lives of thousands of other people, giving them something good and making them happy.
Well said and I agree with everything but the 95% part. I've tried a bunch of other media center apps and none of them even come close to touching XBMC. They are always such a disappointment. If I never knew about XBMC I might think the others were just fine.

Try finding another app that can do things like stack split movies for seemless playback, read group nfo files to help populate your database from IMDB, play videos you've just downloaded and haven't got around to unrarring, etc., etc. Way too many awesome features to list but no other media center can do even half of what XBMC does. I also seriously doubt, for obvious reasons, we'll ever see features like that in a commercial media center.

The developers obviously think like a lot of us when it comes to how we want to sort and manage our music and videos. I'm hooked and I'll keep using XBMC for as long as possible no matter what platform it happens to be on. Of course, I'm still very interested in full HD playback on XBMC (if it can ever be done) because it pains me when I run into a x264 file and have to leave the interface of XBMC. It requires me to get my lazy butt off the couch to plug the laptop into the TV. :)

nate12o6

2007-04-14, 20:35

Hey Gir_Ver_2.0,

I was currious if you would be developing on top of the full xp platform. I have been looking a lot at xpe (xp embedded). Just currious to see what your opinion would be on using that for eficiency and boot time.

I cant wait too see what yall come up with. Also thanks to all the current devs for your hard work as well!

plasmacutter

2007-04-18, 16:35

I think that the 360 is the future for XBMC if it moves to another console. The Wii just doesn't have the processing power that HD needs and the PS3 is just too expensive. If I had to go with a home media center solution for $600, I would just stick with a Mac Mini. The 360 has all the necessary hardware for true HD capabilities at a price that makes it affordable.

Price is one of the main reasons I stick with XBMC.

the 360, if my memory serves me correctly, has an entirely encrypted bios/hypervisor system with the keys built directly onto the main die of a completely custom cpu.

translated into english, IMHO the xbox360 is not so much an artificially restricted general purpose device as a true single purpose device, and while id love to see it running homebrew i consider the effort to be similar to trying to make a toyota prius into an armed fighter jet. ???

that said i think the best choice would be to come up with strict specifications for hardware (which would facilitate at the very least individuals building their own hardware, and optimally someone coordinating small scale production)

ashlar

2007-04-19, 00:02

Like I said the real decision will be up to the guys who do the coding, just laying out the two options. If we are undecided I will post a set of pro's and con's for the community to vote on, but i doubt it will come to that. I'll let you know on Sunday.Cool! Keep us updated. I've been waiting for the longest time for something like what you are describing to happen... :grin:

Endeavour

2007-04-25, 13:08

Hi,

Yes, it's another xbmc on the PC post. I'd appreciate it if someone could give me a brief technical explanation of why XBMC "is difficult" to port to the PC. I've read various threads on this, looked at the PC port for skinners etc and it all seems to come down to something about video playback.

I know nothing about XBox coding, but I am a PC/C++/DirectX coder, and I'd like to know why the devs here feel it's difficult to get playback working. I'm purely going on the basis that I could code a video playback app using D3D/DShow (or using WMP SDK, or even some other api/lib) very quickly and with minimum effort.

Thanks!

jmarshall

2007-04-25, 13:25

We haven't said it's difficult for an experienced coder. It'd only take a few hours or so to get a very basic renderer up and running, though obviously it'd be quite nasty at that point. Our current renderers are coded specifically for xbox hardware, and the whole app is coded with the assumption that it's the sole thing running on the machine, so to get a nice port up and running would be difficult.

If you've played with the current PC version, you'll see it doesn't really respect the rest of the OS too well - indeed, any "niceties" that are there were just hacked in by me (rather quickly) when I was sick of it hogging focus/processor all the time :p

What it comes down to, though, is we're basically just not interested in the platform.

Anyone else (such as yourself) is free to take the code and do what you like - 'tis the joy of open source.

Cheers,
Jonathan

alera

2007-04-27, 12:37

As a user that has recently returned to xbmc I thought I would comment. In terms of functionality xmbc is pretty much unmatched in what it does on any format (including standalone hardware).

In terms of bang for your buck nothing can touch it. You can pick up an xbox for less than £50 in the uk, when you look at the functionality that xbmc and a softmod brings its unbelivable really. I have a standalone network enabled dvd player that plays hd files that cost over £300. Functionality wise its garbage compared to xbmc. Yes it plays hd files but thats not the be all and end all.

The vast majority of users are more than happy with divx / xvid playback. These are the defacto standards and will be for the foreseable future. I wont even go into the range of scripts and other untilities that are available through xbmc which are quite staggering to be honest. I was amazed I could watch tv through xbmc streaming from my dbox.

For me xbmc is indespensable andcoupled with very cheap and reliable xbox hardware is easily the best piece of kit for the job out there at the moment. The developers who have worked on this program for so long deserve a huge amount of credit and thanks. They work for nothing and have produced and invaluable piece of software which is used by millions of people.

There is a huge amount of xbox hardware out there that will live for many many years as will this fantastic piece of software.

ashlar

2007-04-29, 13:54

Like I said the real decision will be up to the guys who do the coding, just laying out the two options. If we are undecided I will post a set of pro's and con's for the community to vote on, but i doubt it will come to that. I'll let you know on Sunday.Sunday has come and gone and you have kept quiet.

Was it all vaporware?

paperclipmonkey

2007-04-30, 23:07

I think apple tv would work prefectly for xbmc, It's already been hacked and is only $300.

gzusrawx

2007-05-01, 00:00

yah but the performance gains would be very minimal for triple the cost. Looks are not everything.

ashlar

2007-05-03, 18:35

Well... Gir_Ver_2.0 was apparently all smoke and mirrors. Too bad :(

ultrabrutal

2007-05-03, 21:29

ashlar, did you ever doubt that? ;)

Livin

2007-05-04, 07:23

I was really hoping for a port to PC... would have loved it - it would dominate the HTPC world easily.

stanley87

2007-05-04, 07:41

Xbmc = xbox Media Center

Livin

2007-05-04, 08:57

Xbmc = xbox Media Center

you're a genius! for years we've all been wondering what that meant!

dailydisco

2007-05-04, 20:22

Hey guys,

I've been following a few of these threads lately... and watching people get so upset that XBMC isn't being ported to this that or the other thing.

Anyway, I took a peek at the sourceforge archive today and saw something unusual so I came back and searched the forum for this new bit... anyway, all I can say is cross your fingers... support this guy as much as you possibly can... if you are a Linux coder (which I am not by any means) then see if you can help out. He seems to be getting some help from our fabulous developers so we might as well see what can happen with this.

My understanding is that by going with Linux it would make it easier to port to Apple OSX, run it on a PC, move to another gaming platform, etc...

This would give me a big incentive to figure out how to install linux... because MythTV didn't seem worth the effort. Anyway... hope this is some good news for those who are such fans of the concept and design of XBMC that they would run it on any platform...:D

http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=26097

Livin

2007-05-05, 01:39

dailydisco

2007-05-05, 02:04

I don't think people are upset...

I think people would love to see it ported and understand that as HD resolutions 720p, 1080i, 1080p become the norm that the original XBOX cannot handle it and a current model PC can, easily.

People do not want to not want to see the app they love fade away due to the limitations of the hardware. Expecially since they know the developer are so talented that XBMC could live on for a long-long time if it was ported.

No anger... just starting to morn.

Yeah, maybe upset is too strong... but there is the tone of distress! I love this thing too and hope that eventually it becomes available on another platform (a platform chosen through the wisdom and needs of our developers...they got us this far!!)... I think it should still be called XBMC, though... in honor of the original... besides, X can stand for anything... as in the equation "solve for X"

I'm subscribing to the other thread to see what develops over time...

ashlar

2007-05-05, 17:38

This would give me a big incentive to figure out how to install linux... because MythTV didn't seem worth the effort. Anyway... hope this is some good news for those who are such fans of the concept and design of XBMC that they would run it on any platform...:D

http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=26097Well... I said WOW!!! :shocked:

I wish good luck to the developers of this version. If you succeed you will have my gratitude. If you wish to set up a PayPal account for donations, do so and you will get my money. :nod:

seven5

2007-05-07, 21:55

as an extremely long user of XBMC, I have sadly had to move away from it. Yes, of course it was my choice. I got a new HD tv, and i could have stayed with it. I wanted to, I tried to. But, it just didn't cut it. Was I sad? extremely. Nothing else compares to XBMC. The care that goes into the features are unmatched.

I moved to mediaportal, and its great software. But it just doesn't have the commitment that XBMC has. Its completeness just isn't there. But its better than anything else.

What I'm trying to say is, yes, If we want HD, then we have options. If we want xbmc, then we have to deal with its shortcomings.

But please, dont mistake passion for begging. We love XBMC, most people in this thread, if not all of them, would name XBMC as one of the most complete, perfect applications they've ever used, anywhere.

To see it die off, for them, because it can't render HD is just so sad. Its true, in 2 years, it will be worthless. Yes, not everyone has HD tvs, but a lot do, and that number is increasing logarithmically. And by 2009, the video, not the software or the hardware, that xbmc renders, will be useless.

Sure, if you dont mind what it looks like, you'll be able to stick with xbmc. But most users will want a nice pristine 720p+ picture.

I accept and respect what the devs decision is. HD is the future, and I want my HD, even if its at the exepense of XBMC. Am I mad? No. Am I sad? Hell yes I'm sad. I miss my XBMC.

ultrabrutal

2007-05-07, 23:45

seven, maybe you should write "my x264 HD" because XBMC renders divx/xvid HD pretty fine and I'm very happy and for now I can live without x264. Looks amazing on my 50" plasma

so long

J_K_M_A_N

2007-05-07, 23:56

I was thinking that also. I have mine up convert to 720P and it looks GREAT! I don't want to invest even more on storage just to have it look a little better yet. I don't think there is enough return on investment on that. I will stick with XBMC for much longer than two more years.

J_K_M_A_N

spiff

2007-05-08, 00:00

lol, so the numbers of hdtv owners are increasing at an logarithmic rate?

some of those marketeers that envisioned exponential rates are gonna get their pound of beating from their bosses ;D

(sorry but i'm a mathematician)

ashlar

2007-05-11, 14:38

seven, maybe you should write "my x264 HD" because XBMC renders divx/xvid HD pretty fine and I'm very happy and for now I can live without x264. Looks amazing on my 50" plasma

so longUltrabrutal, I have a lot of respect for your solution, but I believe that for the majority of people reencoding every movie they want to watch is really asking too much from their commitment to the platform.

ultrabrutal

2007-05-14, 17:29

ashlar, what content should be reencoded?
if you encode yourself, just encode to something that XBMC plays the first time.
I have recorded 1080i Transport streams and encoded to xvid - looks great.
Or if you download content, just download HR (960x540) tv series and OAR (1280x720(540)) movies in divx/xvid instead of x264. They are all available afaik. No need to download x264 until it's the only option out there. When that day comes, yes you need to reencode to xvid/divx or if we are lucky, XBMC got faster on Xbox1 or moved to another platform ;)

NeoMorph

2007-05-20, 04:02

At one stage I was hoping that eventually that XBMC could be ported onto the 360... that was until I actually heard a working 360 in action...

UGH!

Talk about noisy... I want to hear a movie and not listen to the whirring rattle of the player. I've even replaced the existing noisy fan in my current XBOX1 to reduce noise and it's pretty darned quiet... So what if the 360 has a built in HDTV output (I have a HDTV pack for my XBOX1 so that's covered anyway).

If ever they did manage to port over to the 360 I'd have to totally strip the darned thing down and fit it into an acoustic dampened media case as I have tried to reduce background noise in my living room... What with the fans in my TV, XBOX and DVD Recorder it gets a bit annoying to say the least.

Still I'm finding that my current system with the XBOX1 is pretty damned good. I have a dedicated media and eMule server for basically downloading tv shows directly into their assigned directory... works great as both living room and bedroom xbox's use the server as the video and music source so I don't have the problem of having stuff on one xbox and having to stream it to the other. As the eMule server is on 24/7 anyway it make sense to store the stuff there anyway.

XBMC Devs... all I can say is that your program totally rocks.... and yet keeps getting better and better all the time. :nod:

lovedaddy

2007-05-20, 11:57

Linux / PS3. Would be ace to see the basic XBMC running under linux - and ideally a distro for the ps3 with xbmc as its main focus.

PS3 - with enough grunt to do all the HD content, with a nice HDMI / optical output, HDD as standard, wifi, bluetooth, 1000/100/10 networking - bliss!

Pygmee

2007-05-21, 02:16

Ola,

my name is Lennart Denninger and I've been working on an "automated VJ"-alike program for a while.
It started out as a Winamp plugin, developed into a stand-alone PC audio visualizer - you can have a look at http://www.beatharness.com

Anyway, a while ago I've finally bought an old XBox and installed XBMC, and it rocks my world :)

I'd love to port BeatHarness to a console (which shouldn't be a problem given my trackrecord),
but as many people noted XBMC is running on a quickly dying platform.
If - and only if - XBMC would be ported to anything more recent - be it PS3, PC, XBox360 or whatever - I'd love to port BeatHarness to it.
It would be fantastic to be able to use BeatHarness with XBMC, but somehow ( ;) ) I don't feel like porting it to the old XBox 1....

So I hope a conversion would be coming along :)

internick

2007-07-09, 00:54

I think it's a good idea to port xbmc to other many platforms but it means that xbox hardware will be obsolete soon. Newer powerful hardware better than the xbox lets make newer and powerful software but not better software.

Port XBMC but please do not abandon our XB.

Thanks to all.

Demanufacturer

2007-07-18, 07:35

if xbmc goes to ps3, i'll buy one. if it goes to xbox 360, ill buy one of those. ps3 seems better though, since it has bluetooth/networking/wifi

Phobia

2007-10-19, 19:52

Hi all,

I know that this has been hashed at length and the basic reason has always been that the developers aren't interested in a Win32 port, but I have been wondering, why Linux?

Like many others here, I have moved into the HD world, and while I love my Xbox which I use to run XBMC about 99% of the time, I really want to experience native 1080i content on my HDTV from a media player.

I have assembled a new PC, mostly because I heard that XBMC was being ported to Linux and have built the SVN and really enjoyed the familiar interface, and snappy responsiveness in the GUI which I came to enjoy with the Xbox.

The difficulty is getting everything else to work well. SD content seems to work OK so long as the audio is stereo only. Anything with AC3/DTS seems to choke my system which handles HD content quite well under Windows. (Abit AN-M2HD (integrated nVidia GF7050 with PureVideo), 2GB RAM, AMD X2 4200+ in an Antec Fusion HTPC chasis)

I attribute this to the state of drivers under Linux after I read that HD can be more problematic under Linux because the drivers don't support video acceleration, outside of MPEG-2. So I have to ask the question - why choose this platform over one with fully supported drivers?

GPU acceleration of video, especially HD video really makes the whole HTPC thing a reality, at least when you are talking about something that doesn't run hot and loud.

I've tried XP MCE, MediaPortal and a couple of the other less mature "media center" type packages for Windows, and they all fall short of XBMC, especially in terms of GUI performance.

The developers of XBMC really should feel proud of what they have been able to do with the Xbox and soon Linux, but am I wrong to think that the effort would have been easier under Win32, especially given the source of the project?

I hope that the Linux version is able to exceed the performance of my original Xbox, but at the moment I guess I'm feeling a little pessimistic based on reports that nVidia and others don't have support for video acceleration in their video drivers under Linux. I guess I could invest in a faster CPU, but I would have thought that a dual core 4200+ should be able to handle this, especially when compared to the original CPU in the Xbox.

I would love to see a Windows based distro of XBMC - maybe even a stripped down version of Windows, like BartPE or similar. Then we'd have a bloat free version of Windows to run XBMC from ... how sweet would that be?

I can already hear the hecklers - if you want it, you develop it. Fair enough, only I don't know how to code, and don't really have the time to learn.

At any rate - I don't want to come off as a complainer, because to be honest I've had a terrific ride with the original XBMC running on the hardware for which it was originally intended. That system was the envy of many of my friends who just shook their heads at how well it all worked.

Again, thanks for your efforts, both current and in the past!

-- Phob

spiff

2007-10-22, 14:14

mainly because it's the platform devs are interested in porting to.

and really, windows makes no sense at all - that would tie you to a closed proprietary (imo horrible) os, and, even more importantly, it would only run on pc's - hardware notoriously bad for a media center. linux gives you a base to port to many different (standardized) hardware's, such as consoles or your coffee maker or whatever.

Livin

2007-10-22, 18:36

Spiff,
I realize that you are a self proclaimed "Grumpy Bastard Developer" but those are pretty harsh statements. I never really take sides in the OS debate but I try to inject some reality and logic into statements that are completely 1 sided (be it for or against any OS).

Windows is not closed by definition... thus APIs.
Windows is only partially proprietary from an interop standpoint. They do conform to most industry standards they just don't let you peek at most of the code owned by Microsoft.
-- Neither of these make Microsoft bad or the OS bad... matter of fact this is how MOST software has always been written, as well as hardware, electronics, etc. Either using patents to protect the work or an obscurity method (e.g. filling a device with resin, encoding it, etc)

And funny you mention how bad PCs are for media centers... since 99% of all media centers (made by any company under any name) are PCs and not all use Windows... some use Linux, some other OSs or proprietary code... but still most are PC hardware.

And, many other things are based on PC hardware you would not even consider -- medical equip, machinery, etc... there have been life saving and life supporting devices in hospitals running on Windows for 10 years now... did you know?!

You may be an amazing coder but either you don't really know what is out there that builds the world around you, keeps it running... or even keep you alive in the hospital -- or you are in denial.

I'm not trying to flame you, just make everyone aware... there is much more out there that is good, then is bad.

And, seriously... I DO want XBMC running on my coffee maker so I'm thinking you'll have that working by year's end? ;)

spiff

2007-10-22, 19:36

you asked for our (the dev's) opinion - seeing that i'm one of those, well, there's mine. i'm well aware lots of stuff run on PC hardware. standardized hw. i may not have come completely clear through here. anyways, this means the devs know exactly what hardware their software will run on. not some average stupid joe user's pc filled with spyware viruses worms and other shit. the whole point here is that IF we ported to windows and suddenly some new fancy perfect hardware comes around, we'd be sitting there sulking over the new hardware not running windows (which it certainly wont be), while the chance of some zealots porting linux to it is rather high.

using medical equiment and the likes as an argument, that's shooting yourself in the leg. they are tested on ONE hardware specifically designed for the task. and i mean TESTED. plus those are mostly not networked, and if they are, they are certainly not exposed to the internet.

anyways, all my comments about windows was IMO. if you like the drm infested world of msft, then by all means use it. and if you want to use xbmc, port it yourself. i do not and i am in full right to have my own opinion AND state it. and really, windows not being closed? if msft decided that only their certified hw will be able to run windows (read: hw implementing drm), who are you to complain? or better yet, what can you do about it?

and fyi; i hardly use linux. i mostly use freebsd or aix and some other nix variants (at work). plus i spend quite a lot of time in windows to do xbmc-development. you're seeing zealots where they aren't.

coastal

2007-10-22, 20:26

My vote would never be for a 360, i own one and it's just too damn noisey to play movies on. I'm looking forward to the linux build completing. To see that on a PS3 would make me buy one (again) or if turns out that one of those ITX systems could handle the demand that would get my vote too. It's not the system at the end of the day, i see it as either Vote for Linux or not. And since these great guys are already working on it this argument is kinda redundant. /gets coat

Livin

2007-10-23, 06:36

Spiff,
I was not trying to make a case for a port to Windows. I'm happy with the Linux port and plan to use it as such. I don't have an OS preference really, I use Windows more out of necessity... as most businesses run 99% Windows for client/server.

I was just pointing out that the you made some very broad generalizations.

No arguement from me that the Linux port is a good way to go. Windows is not a bad way to go, just an alternative... that most of the world uses ;)

radio

2007-10-23, 13:14

Worst. Argument. Ever?

and really, windows makes no sense at all - that would tie you to a closed proprietary (imo horrible) os,

Closed, so presumably the linux port involves changes to the OS kernel? Otherwise the most open thing about it is likely to be OpenGL / AL and any other APIs, which would all run just dandy on a Win-PC.

and, even more importantly, it would only run on pc's - hardware notoriously bad for a media center.

So, the Linux port isn't designed to run on PCs?

And wait! pretty much every bit of hardware a consumer can buy will work with a Win-PC out of the box, can the same be said for a Linux-PC yet?

linux gives you a base to port to many different (standardized) hardware's,

As long as they support the API's you're using.

such as consoles or your coffee maker or whatever.

so, a coffee maker is a more suitable platform than a PC.

note: I can see why a Linux port might be useful, e.g. if the RSX Hypervisor gets cracked on the PS3, then it'll be simple to get XBMC running at speed there - (it might already run as well as an Xbox due to the POWER OF CELL?), but still, those arguments are rubbish.

spiff

2007-10-23, 13:30

are you denying that windows is proprietary? can you distribute a handtuned windows distribution with xbmc?

to me, no, the linux port is not designed to be run on general pc's.

yep. a coffee maker is definitely more suited than a pc. cause it has STANDARDIZED hw.
and ofc i'm well aware we depend on them api's.

and your ps3 comments i will just ignore, they are obviously rubbish. cell isnt a cpu.

radio

2007-10-23, 14:00

Again, I don't have a problem with a Linux port - it makes the most sense because (I assume) Most of the devs working on it are (like you said) Open Source Zealots who wouldn't touch windows. Your arguments though still are poor.

are you denying that windows is proprietary? can you distribute a handtuned windows distribution with xbmc?
I didn't deny that, but I did ask if the Linux port has kernel modifications and counts as it's own distro, otherwise it's not really tied that tightly to Linux that a cross platform version would be impossible (with time/effort from people anyway)

to me, no, the linux port is not designed to be run on general pc's.

So everyone running it has the exact same set up?

yep. a coffee maker is definitely more suited than a pc. cause it has STANDARDIZED hw.

Unfortunately, none of that hardware is remotely suitable to a media center, unlike a PC. Unless of course you have a high end coffee maker with an LCD display, then you would at least know the name of the movie that you're not watching.

and your ps3 comments i will just ignore, they are obviously rubbish. cell isnt a cpu.

The ps3 comment was more valid than any of your arguments. I know the cell is a beast if you know what you're doing with it and if you do, I imagine you can get some pretty fast video decoding done, at SD at the very least, and thus I imagine running Linux XBMC on the ps3 might be as snappy as on the Xbox1. I'm not sure though, hence the question-mark.

C-Quel

2007-10-23, 14:04

On another note... if we do release a coffee maker port then at least its true "Home Brew" :)

spiff

2007-10-23, 14:09

i have NEVER stated a crossplatform version wouldnt be possible, i was stating OUR REASONING for choosing linux. you know. the thing the parent asked for.
the fact that you go on with what a coffee maker can and cannot do makes two things obvious to me:

1) you're trolling.
2) you're not understanding what i'm writing - not everything is to be understood litteraly.

for the rest of your comments i suggest you read up on what we have said about the linux port (standard hw configurations etc).

xbmc on ps3 linux would run EXTREMELY slow as there's no gpu acceleration and unless you write code for the cells you only got an extremely sucky powerpc core with no altivec and no branch prediction to play with.

radio

2007-10-24, 11:52

I had a big reply typed out, but I can't be bothered with you ignoring the points I'm making in order to push your own agenda. I've said it before, but you get your opinions confused with what is correct. The fact that I bring you to task on certain things, instead of fawning all over you because "you're a magic XBMC dev" seems to make you a bit upset. Tough. Yes, you do it all in your free time for the love of it, but that's no excuse for being arrogant. Or wrong.

spiff

2007-10-24, 12:16

arrogant? where exactly?

coffee maker was an analogue for 'specific fixed hardware'. you starting to state that a coffee maker doesnt have a lcd or a display or whatever shows that you either didn't realize this (which i doubt) or that you ARE trolling, trying to provoke me.

i stated my opinion because it was asked for. you obvious arent able to see past my 'horrible os (imo)' comment. IMO = IN MY OPINION. ME, as an individual. it was NOT used as an argument for why we chose linux. admittedly, i personally am obviously happy that win32 wasnt chosen as the target platform, but that is besides the point.

my closed, proprietary argument was: we cannot distribute a presetup version of the os with the application IF we choose to do so. this might not have come through completely clear, but that was the ONLY thing i meant. plus the drm arguments, which, again, _i_ really think are valid concerns.

i really really don't see where i have flagged my dev status except from the obvious (the dev's opinions were asked for and i stated what i believe are the team opinions).

anyways, i will let this pass now, but i had to respond on you calling me arrogant.

Phobia

2007-10-25, 00:04

Slow on a PS3 - but isn't the same true for anything (PC or other device) with no proper drivers under Linux?

I guess my beef is really with ATI and nVidia and not Linux - I just think that in the short term, a Win32 port would make a more useful platform as the drivers are have the full features available to them.

Linux in the long term makes sense for all of the reasons mentioned - I completely agree with the logic that down the road when devices that are capable of doing more than the original xbox come along, Linux gurus would be all over trying to port the OS over... but that is a lot of what if stuff.

PCs running Windows are the here and now. Drivers work, video acceleration works etc.

I suspect that most folks tend to use XBMC for lots of video, and the Linux model is severely handicapped in that regard - at least until there are changes made.

-- Phob

Phobia

2007-10-25, 05:35

...changes made to the drivers that is.

nesthuang

2007-11-02, 07:28

Any console, as long as it can do 1080i/p.
Gaming consoles should do more than playing games. XBMC proves its value to the financial minister of my house (my wife :)), therefore, in order to be approved for my next console, XBMC must be there for me.
It's that simple.

omatase

2007-11-02, 19:54

I know I'm coming in on this topic extraordinarily late and I believe there is a port to linux already started of XBMC (I apologize if this is incorrect) but let me be the lone voice that is apprehensive about XBMC moving to Linux.

I believe the second-most reason (the first being first-class developers with a dedication to the project) XBMC is so successful is that it is software written against known hardware. Porting to Linux will open a large can of worms that will (imo) likely take a lot of the allure away from the XBMC project.

Consider:

1. Support for multiple hardware manufacturers for all of the components that goes into a media center computer (Video Card, TV Card, CPU, Network Card(s), Hard Drives, Optical Drives, Motherboards, TVs).

TVs is a big one. Right now XBMC works with any TV an XBOX does (which may be, providing you have the correct adapter, any TV). On the surface it may not be obvious to everyone reading this how big of a deal that is. MythTV, as good as a product as it is, is not as simple as plugging a cable and adapter (if needed) into your television.

My MythTV experience was not a pleasant one. The problem I had was related to my TV and video card. I had an ATI Radeon 9600SE (I believe) and a SONY HDTV (circa 2000). Now, granted Linux support for ATI video cards is said not the greatest and I may have had luck with an NVidia card, but that's really my point. Of the tens of thousands of XBMC users that are in the world today, none of them were left out of the experience because of their hardware (unless it was faulty). That won't be the case with Linux certainly. I spent weeks trying to get MythTV working on my media center machine only to finally give up.

My experience with XBMC was much different. I was literally up and running in 3 hours!

I could go on and on for hours on this topic, but I'll spare all of you that.

Thanks

hired goon

2007-11-08, 01:42

I've tried Windows MCE, Media Portal, MythTV, etc for a HTPC build but I still prefer the XBMC user interface. So much that I have delayed building a HTPC since the UI would suck.

I'm really looking forward to the Linux port. If TV support is added then that would make a killer HTPC IMHO.

Although device support is an issue on Linux and XBMC with TV support on Windows would be beaut as well.

Dunno if these things will ever happen, but a bloke can dream ...

-- Geoff

Geekzilla

2007-11-10, 22:17

I would like to see XBMC choose a reference hardware design for a dedicated streamer, and adopt that as the standard going forward. Something like the PopcornHour which goes for under $200 would be so much cheaper and easier to support as opposed to building a HTPC with linux. I’m not suggesting that model specifically, just something capable of streaming the nastiest 1080p mkv we can muster. I’m sure if such a box was available, thousand if not tens of thousands would sell rather quickly.

nate12o6

2007-11-30, 21:53

Hey guys i found this on digg today:
http://www.digg.com/playstation_3/Linux_3D_graphics_access_on_PS3_found

I was wondering if anyone that actually knows what there talking about could shed some light on what means for getting xbox linux running on the ps3. Thanks.

znelbok

2008-06-07, 14:34

I have used XBMC for a couple of years and it is the best out there. It is so good that my 5yo has no problems with using it on her own.

One of the best thing about it on the XBOX is that you just turn it on and it is running in a matter of seconds.

I am interested in the next generation of hardware now but not having been on the forums for about a year I am way behind in what has happened in its development other than it is now ported to windows, Mac and Linux.

Because I have a family that is technically inept, I need a box that you just press the power button on and away it goes. My preference is not to have to wait for say windows to boot up and then load XBMC.

PS3 was my choice of hardware, but I have read why that is not possible.

Does the XBOX360 work?

Is there another console out there that will work, or will I have to resign myself to a PC if I want to move forward.

If so what's the choice of poison, one of those pretty looking MAC's maybe?

Thanks to all who took the time to read and answer

Mick

Nickman

2008-06-07, 16:21

znelbok

2008-06-07, 23:57

XBox 360 does not work. And probobly never will either.
The way forward is (atleast right now) a PC running a streamlined linux dist.

One of the goals in the linux port is to have as short boot time as possible. But XBMC Linux have to go into a beta phase first. (Still alpha)

I wont be as quick as the xbox. But it should be possible to get quite quick. Say like 25-40 sek from powerup to XBMC fully loaded.

Thanks Nicman

Do you think there will be a LiveCD version for the non-linux users like me, something that will boot from the CD, offer to install itself to the hard drive and make it a dedicated XBMC machine - that's about all that I could handle from teh Linux point of view having no experience with it in the past.

Mick