View Full Version : First time setup wizard
ok, i searched and didn't find any suggestions like this. what i'm proposing is putting an extra xml tag in the xboxmediacenter.xml file, something like "<firstrun>", and if it is set to true (which it should be in cvs and thus all the builds), have a first time setup wizard start up which would guide the user through the initial setup...stuff like network settings, bookmarks, etc would be included in the wizard. after the wizard is done it would set the xml tag to false and it will never run again (but maybe have an option to run it again in the settings menu?)
i think this would help a lot of newcommers and make the project prettier.
now that i think about it, maybe it would be better to store the firstrun tag on the hard drive...
anyway, anyone else think this would be a good idea?
Gamester17
2005-08-12, 09:42
This has been suggested before, see http://xbmc.org/trac/ticket/519, the problem is that no developer(s) have volunteered to program/code it for XBMC,
...any takers?, I would very much like XBMC to have this too :nod:
I've was thinking about this the other day. I think that new users could benefit from a setup wizard when starting xbmc the first time after they installed it.
An introductory setup that takes them through the basic first steps of configuring xbmc. Setting up shares, setting content/scrapers, adding media to the library and profiles for instance. The goal wouldn't be setting every possible setting imaginable but just the basic things to get started.
Now, I hear some of you thinking "Me no need no friggin wizards, I'm hardcore brah!" I know, I'll get by without it too. But as xbmc is spreading it's wings to other platforms it will likely be attracting people that are less tech savvy or just want things as easy as possible.
I would be willing to create some sort of concept/proposition when I have the time, but let's see if there's any interest in it at all or if it's just a bad idea ;)
xbmc, itself, requires very little configuration, other than the addition of sources. and the "add source" dialog handles most of this rather well, though it doesn't initiate a scan immediately afterwards (nor do I think it should as not every user wants to use the library.)
what could be done, is if there's no sources, immediately jump into the "add source" dialog so the user doesn't have to click on it.
jmarshall
2008-08-26, 00:58
Concepts + propositions are always a good place to start - we want to make it as easy as possible for everyone to use.
I guess the key is that:
1. Users shouldn't have to alter settings - the defaults should be fine for all, and if they're not, we need to tweak them.
2. The only thing they should need is to set where their media is located. This I agree could be optimized somewhat, but how to do it is a tricky one.
3. Skins need to be designed for first startup in mind. Many are, but some aren't. Relying on default source names that aren't there isn't a good idea for instance.
Cheers,
Jonathan
Gamester17
2008-08-26, 17:16
Help is needed to lists the steps a such wizard should go through...
I think that a wizard for the initial installation/configuration the very first time XBMC is loaded on a system would be a more than welcomed feature among all first-time users of XBMC who are trying to install and setup XBMC for the very first time. You the type with a welcome screen (that can be canceled); "Welcome to XBMC! This wizard will help you get XBMC up-and-running fast and easy, click next to continue..."
I would also like XBMC to have
#1. An first time setup wizard initial setup (a 'quick startup' installation wizard):
The initial setup of XBMC can still be considered a little too complicated for your average first-time installer/user. It would be nice if there was an automated 'newbie oriented' step-by-step setup wizard as an option the very first time XBMC is started. Then after that the users only have go into the settings later if they want to fine tune something. Most users do not want to tinker and tweak, they just want it to just work right way the first time after they followed some basic step-by-step wizard, (in a 'next=>next=>next' clicking through it type style).
#2. Specific task wizards:
Step-by-step wizards for repeated tasks. Tasks like for example adding a source (which I think is still just a little technical for the average user who know nothing about networking and such, ...they should not have to read the online-manual but instead get everything they need on the screen for creating something like a new SMB/Samba bookmark source, (even if we would require to add a 'HELP' button which explains the concept of a network share, etc.). Also some settings like screen resolution and screen calibration.
For the #1 first time setup wizard I was thinking a wizard that guides the user though the basic setup settings step-by-step, (similar to installing an operating-system like Windows XP/Vista, or Kickstart for Linux, but obviously specificly suited for XBMC).
* You of course start with the localization settings such as; language (for GUI), location/time-zone, clock, and also keyboard layout.
* Then you move on to the mouse and/or remote-control configuration.
* Then you move on to hardware settings such as X Window System configuration and output-resolution (480i, 576i, 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p or other resolution) for the skin and video playback, then the overscan compensation calibration, and audio-output (analog, digital, and DD and/or DTS passthrough).
* Then it is the network settings (which should probably be changed to DHCP by default now instead of using dashboard settings?), explaining that they need to set gateway and DNS if using static IP address, HTTP proxy, firewall configuration, etc. ...the network can also be tested by after this letting the user test and set the weather function.
* Samba authentication (username, password, and workgroup/domain).
* Then finally we have the "Add source" which users will have to do in order to use XBMC so why not guide them though adding a source under each catagory; pictures, video and music.
For #2 I believe that the same type of users would also benefit from a even more of a 'for dummies' (no offense meant) oriented step-by-step guide (next=>next=>next=>etc.) wizard for adding a new source, so when the user click "Add Source" they would get the option to either run a step-by-step wizard or setup that new source 'manually', I think that using a such wizard the most inexperienced user should not be able to fail with the task of adding a new source (even without reading the online manual).
PS! I think we should probably begin by take a look at how Mythbuntu handles the initial setup/confg. audio, video and lirc are covered, (and I am not only referring to XBMC for Linux here but just how a first time step-by-step installer wizard can be). Most of the config in Mythbuntu first setup is MythTV centric and that can be dumped for XBMC centric items.
Remember, user-friendliness is next to godliness! :;):
Gamester17
2008-08-26, 17:23
Users shouldn't have to alter settings - the defaults should be fine for all, and if they're not, we need to tweak them.Internationalization and localization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization) can not always always be detected (especially not if we are talking about the XBMC Live distro) so that will almost always have too be changed by the user, same is currently with video resolution (and overscan) settings, weather, ...and again I think that a once run through the "Add Source" for each area (Pictures, Videos, Music) to help add their first source to those would also be suited in a first time wizard.
Hmmm yeah for noobs a setup along the lines of Windows Media Center (MCE) a one off run when you first start would be good! Screen type, speakers, folder locations etc....
Thanks all for the input. I'll think about it some more, and try to come out with a concept in some form. In the meantime ofcourse any other ideas or input are welcomed.
About Windows MCE, I was thinking about something along those lines. It's straight forward and pretty intuitive.
Talking about adding media for instance there are two scenarios I was thinking about.
The first:
- User is asked to locate the folders he/she wants to add. When a folder is chosen, the user could be asked to indicate which type of content the folder contains. For example:
This folder contains:
O movies O tvshows O musicvideos O music O other
The O's being checkmarks ;)
The scrapers are set according to these choices. Anything marked as "other" will not be scraped.
The second:
- For each content type a seperate screen is shown, asking the user to locate the folders for that particular content type before advancing to the next step.
Disclaimer: This is just me thinking out loud, and not everything is perfectly thought through ;)
jmarshall
2008-08-26, 23:35
Just another point regarding adding sources.
IMO the scanning function needs splitting in to two:
1. Scan local information only (file tags where appropriate, + nfo xml files + thumbs + fanarts etc.) into the database.
2. Scan the newly added files in the database for online information.
Step 1 ensures that all the user's videos are in the db, and all the information is correct.
Step 2 obtains additional info (if the user wishes to have it), and can be backgrounded completely.
Ideally the user would be able to change all information in the db as well (per-file content type for instance).
Cheers,
Jonathan
The-Boxhead
2008-08-27, 00:04
I love these ideas !!
To bad im not a coder, but i will gladly help with anything else.
Another thing i think would be nice is the "real" dummy options in wizards. Like not even browsing for sources. Instead just do either a "fast" media search or a "slow" search. the slow option would search all available stations (C:D:F:G:H, whatever it finds) for both video and music related files - when done it will automaticly make libraries without any user intervention. The fast option would only search current user "documents" for media files. (on windows plattforms atleast)
I would also think that task based wizards is an exelent idea !
I love these ideas !!
To bad im not a coder, but i will gladly help with anything else.
Another thing i think would be nice is the "real" dummy options in wizards. Like not even browsing for sources. Instead just do either a "fast" media search or a "slow" search. the slow option would search all available stations (C:D:F:G:H, whatever it finds) for both video and music related files - when done it will automaticly make libraries without any user intervention. The fast option would only search current user "documents" for media files. (on windows plattforms atleast)
I would also think that task based wizards is an exelent idea !
I think that would be very difficult, as xbmc needs to know what type of content is contained within a folder to know which library it should be in. Now seperating music and video may be doable just by looking at the extensions but how would it differentiate a movie from a tv episode?
And just to be clear, aside from webdev and stuff like xbmc skins I'm not a coder either, so any contribution by me will unfortunately be limited to propositions and graphics.
The-Boxhead
2008-08-27, 01:45
I do understand that the tv shows would not be possible to different from movies. But this mode is for the casual computer user, you know just adding his videos,pictures and music by extensions. My guess is that if a user has alotta tv shows his more in the advanced user section ?
The-Boxhead
2008-08-27, 01:46
you might be able to different an avi full movie from a tv show by looking at the file size ? however this could also mean that it's just a short clip ;)
rwparris2
2008-08-27, 03:25
Just my opinion, I don't really think auto-searching is a very good idea... how would it handle Samba? UPnP? FTP servers? What if a folders were set up all screwy? A setup wizard sounds GREAT, but somehow I don't think wanting a user what folder they keep their media in is too much to ask...
I had two ideas, that are not as comprehensive as an initial setup wizard, but I think it could make things be more intuitive:
1)currently, there is no way to add anything to the library from the library. You have to go to files view, add a source, then scan it. IMO you should be able to do Library things in Library view. Maybe invoke the context menu and "Add Source" You then add the source like normal, but once you added it, it will immediately take you to the set content screen. If possible whatever part of the library you opened the context menu at should be selected by default. (so if you were in movies library and selected add source, the set content dialog would already be set to "movies" and would have the options to pick your scrapers etc.)
2) when a user makes it to any library mode that doesn't have anything scanned into it yet, it should be similar to the files mode where the only thing you see is "add source", which would act like I explained above.
jmarshall
2008-08-27, 03:36
I think what we're moving to is a single view for library + files that shows everything in a unified way.
i.e. you'll be able to browse your filesystem directly, or view movies/tvshows etc. separately or whatever. Separating into 2 scanning processes is part of this.
In this case, all sources are handled in one place.
Cheers,
Jonathan
The-Boxhead
2008-08-27, 11:14
rwparris2:
You would be surprised about howe many users who has no idea on what driver or on what folder they have theirs music, videos and pictures. Most media applications today has automatic scans for users content. !
I bellive this is a needed function.
I have been working as a computers repairman for many years. When it comes to windows folder structures most regular user doesent have a clue. They just use their different applications to access their stuff, where the files actually is they have no idea !
I also like the idea about a merged file+library view. There are alott of people who dont understand the difference between file and library mode in xbmc. thats a problem.
I think what we're moving to is a single view for library + files that shows everything in a unified way.
i.e. you'll be able to browse your filesystem directly, or view movies/tvshows etc. separately or whatever. Separating into 2 scanning processes is part of this.
In this case, all sources are handled in one place.
Cheers,
Jonathan
+100 for this. I agree with rwparris2 about adding content from within library mode/a future unified mode. Itīs the only reason I ever have to use file-mode.
Gamester17
2008-08-27, 16:20
I think what we're moving to is a single view for library + files that shows everything in a unified way.
IMO the scanning function needs splitting in to two:
1. Scan local information only (file tags where appropriate, + nfo xml files + thumbs + fanarts etc.) into the database.
2. Scan the newly added files in the database for online information.
Step 1 ensures that all the user's videos are in the db, and all the information is correct.
Step 2 obtains additional info (if the user wishes to have it), and can be backgrounded completely.I am in 100% agreement with that.
Something similar has been discussed before here => http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=30161
All files should first go into the database, no matter if they can be looked up online or not, (if not they just display the file-name).
I believe that MeediOS (http://www.meedios.com) does something like this(?), ...I have not used MeediOS (http://www.meedios.com) myself but I understand that they do not even have a 'file-mode', instead they scan in all file-names into the database and just display the file-name in library-mode if no meta data could be found online by their scrapers, (MeediOS (http://www.meedios.com) call their 'scrapers' for "importers" by the way, but their purpose is the same as the scrapers in XBMC).
Talking about adding media for instance there are two scenarios I was thinking about.
The first:
- User is asked to locate the folders he/she wants to add. When a folder is chosen, the user could be asked to indicate which type of content the folder contains. For example:
This folder contains:
O movies O tvshows O musicvideos O music O other
The O's being checkmarks ;)
The scrapers are set according to these choices. Anything marked as "other" will not be scraped.Boxee (http://www.boxee.tv) have removed the "Add Source" option under each section and replaced it with something almost exactly like that with only one "Add Sources" under settings as a single point of adding new sources, with the difference that they only have 'videos', 'audio', and 'pictures' as the options because they eliminate the last step to "Set Content" and scraper as they instead have tried to automate that part (doing so by a more advanced scanning algorithm which try to detect what type of media it in that source, though IMHO not doing a terrific job with this method, but Boxee (http://www.boxee.tv) is still only Alpha so they have yet time to better it).
So if XBMC would do something similar then I think it should have a few more options like you suggest to make setting content easier:
() Adult Movies, () Movies, () TV Shows, () Music Videos, () Music, () Pictures, () Other Audio Files, () Other Video Files, () Other
...and in the future we might add additional genres/subgenres in scrapers and the video library database, see => http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33710
Again allowing a mixing of file-mode and library-mode in a new view mode which display them mixed together, similar to what Boxee (http://www.boxee.tv) does but more towards XBMC's library-mode with added files that could not be looked up on the internet :grin:
Another thing i think would be nice is the "real" dummy options in wizards. Like not even browsing for sources. Instead just do either a "fast" media search or a "slow" search. the slow option would search all available stations (C:D:F:G:H, whatever it finds) for both video and music related files - when done it will automatically make libraries without any user intervention. The fast option would only search current user "documents" for media files. (on windows platforms at least)Again, Boxee (http://www.boxee.tv) does something similar to that today, (or at least it tried to do it). IMHO this method is not yet mature enough, so I still think that XBMC should at least give the user the option to specify the content type when adding a new source, that way he/she can try to specify the content as Adult Movies, Movies, TV Shows, Music Videos, Music, Pictures, Other Audio Files, Other Video Files, or otherwise they could pick a "I do not know (attempt to do an auto-detect scan)" option, ...and again in the future we might have additional genres/subgenres in scrapers and the video library database, see => http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33710
:nod:
Boxee (http://www.boxee.tv) have removed the "Add Source" option under each section and replaced it with something almost exactly that in a only one
Ah ok, I have an invite but I haven't been able to get Boxee working for me yet. Sounds really similar indeed.
they only have 'videos', 'audio', and 'pictures' as the options because they eliminate the last step to "Set Content" and scraper as they instead have tried to automate that part (doing so by a more advanced scanning algorithm which try to detect what type of media it in that source
Yeah I was thinking about something along those lines, like recognizing s01e01 and formatting like that but I can imagine that being tricky.
Considering iMDB lists tvshows too afaik, maybe a first look up there might be able to return info about the type of content before passing it on to a tvshow scraper?
So if XBMC would do something similar then I think it should have a few more options like you suggest to make setting content easier:
() Adult Movies, () Movies, () TV Shows, () Music Videos, () Music, () Pictures, () Other Audio Files, () Other Video Files, () Other
...and in the future we might add additional genres/subgenres in scrapers and the video library database, see => http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33710
I'm definitely looking forward to that, i would love to visually seperate my movies from documentaries for instance.
A list of options that extensive would soon appear cluttered though imo. Maybe a new listbox like interface control would be nice for that?
jmarshall
2008-08-28, 01:02
The trouble with too much "management" stuff is it complicated the user interface. If you start auto-categorizing stuff, then you are going to get it wrong. Thus, the user needs to be able to correct it, and often the correction may need to be done across multiple files. Doing it one by one will be tedious.
The advantage of forcing the user to categorize at the folder level and then assuming it is correct is that it's easier for the user to fix - they just have to organize their filesystem which can be done on the computer/NAS level, rather than from within XBMC.
Ofcourse, we still have to have robust (at least a lot more robust than it is now) scraping and scanning procedures - particularly the detection of new and moved files and so on.
Cheers,
Jonathan
marlboroman1
2008-08-28, 02:14
I hope any wizard mode would be optional maybe choose at the splash screen new or existing user or some such. I think bombarding users with option and question is definitely the wrong way to go. There are things that could use simplifying and that's in every one want interest. I think a number of smaller task mangers would be the way to go.
Could the setting of content and choosing of scrapers be circumvented by location in skins with defined movie and tv sections. Having movies default to imdb and tv shows to TVDB the defaults could also be language dependent.
I find that now for the most part XBMC is already very user friendly and it may take a while to get to grips with and you are always finding new features. But you have to remember the route people have already taken before they get here
they have a large digital media collection know how use torrents, news groups and the like. Want be able to play all codecs and containers available have work out how to set up a network. Have scowered the net for the perfect media centre have successfully connected their tv and sound system to a pc or xbox or mac and have mastered linux.
Most people have dvds blu-ray and set top box recorder and may use windows media player quicktime and itunes.
The-Boxhead
2008-08-28, 10:12
I do agree with all these comments about difficulities adding wizards. However wizards made it's way to computer applications many years ago, since then it has been a great success and almost every application or OS'es has them. Now a days it's more or less expected.
The advanced users will never see wizards as a good thing, they can offcourse just skip them. However i really think that the average user needs them and xbmc should have the average user in mind.
The genius about a wizard is that the users can perform many needed tasks in an understandable way without to much choices and information at the same time.
To me it's perfect logic with this stuff:
1. First time startup wizards
2. Taskbased wizards for adding media sources, screen setup etc etc.
3. Merging of the file and library view.
Just my 2 cents ;)
Any wizard should definitely have to be optional and dismissable with one single click.
They should also not overload the user with options, it should be as straight forward and effective as possible. In such a way that maybe even advanced users would find them useful. Not necessarily because being more easy but simply for being faster. Take something as essential as adding media. If you can do that in once central place, what would be the benefit in dismissing the setup and going into the different libraries, selecting sources and scanning? That would require more clicks and steps. But, like said the user should always be able to do it the way he or she wants.
Something to take into account is that most people that are now using xbmc are more tech-savvy, have in many cases modded their xboxes and more "complex" stuff.
However xbmc is spreading towards other platforms. Now people using it on Linux will often be more computer literate, but you shouldn't underestimate the lack of knowledge with the mass public that are mainly using Windows. So for me and lots of other people that are now using xbmc things may look userfriendly already (and for us, it IS), but that's not the case for anyone.
Gamester17
2008-09-16, 13:40
Please read thoroughly through these related discussions:
http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=37206
and
http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33710
:nod: IMHO very important for the future of XBMC