New OSD in development

[forza]

i'm starting to write a new osd in xbmc, i've seen from many posts over a long period of time many of you have particular thoughts on what a good osd should do.

please post here with what you think would make a good osd and any features/ideas/suggestions you have.

cheers!

[onkel bouncy]

- i would prefer an 'info-icon' in osd for film-infos instead of a seperate text on the 'info-button'.

- one osd with all infos and parameters would be the best.

- it would be nice to have features like ff/rw and pause in osd too.

- are png graphics impossible ?
png's are more flexible (transparency).

[floink]

coolness :)

when using select key on dvd remote:
- a panel like in xbmp (or wmp) sliding up from below. hide/reveal with select key and auto-hide after xx sec. stretches video.
- play/pause, ff/rw, stop volume and mute buttons (slowmo button?).
- progress bar.
- current time/total time.
- skinnable

**edit: if prioritised i'd rate the above higher than the below.

when using info button on dvd remote
- like current xbmc minus the % progress as it would be in the sliding control bar
- extra page with codec and other such info which is available through using info key today (onkel bouncys idea). this page could also show name of current playing file.
- skinnable
my first list of thoughts. nothing new really but it's a start.

/floink

[Frodo]

nice forza
what i would like is:

- seperate keybindings for the osd
(now its shared with the default for guiwindowfullscreen)

- ff / rw / pause / play
- volume control & mute
- more graphical layout

and support for changing various settings like the current osd has

[Bhellium]

what if we had 2 different osd´s
one basic with basicly just play/pause, volume/mute,
ff/rw that pops up from bottom and only takes up a corner.
this possibly automaticly popup when pressing pause?
or controlling volume with up and down buttons?

and a advanced that has all the features much like xbmp? with
a progressbar and all those function´s?

[Frodo]

i dont like the idea of 2 osd's, i prefer to have 1
and think one of the most important things is that the
osd has a seperate section in keymap.xml
its now sharing the keys with the fullscreen video window
which is bad (and my fault)
frodo

[forza]

i agree, one osd which does it all is my prefered choice. it's my intention to make it fully skinable so people can take out what they don't want.

[mvoosten]

please make sure it's (simple) menu based and it doesn't clutter up the screen for more advanced options other then progress and play options like pause etc.

[Hullebulle]

maybe you can do something like:
hit info button once: shows most important things like current play time, movie length, movie infos, current subtitle/audiostream ...
hit again while this ino is on the screen: open the osd to adjust all these things.

just my 2 cents.

[floink]

maybe one osd where:
1st 'page' is the simple control bar at bottom where basic stuff goes in (play/pause, ff/rw, volume/mute). user can perform the basic things and then leave osd if desired. also it contains buttons, or tabs if you like, to the other pages
2nd page is maybe a more advanced (larger?) version of page 1 for filter and delay settings and such. don't know but i think audio+video settings could be one page.
3rd page subtitle settings
4th codecs fps cache info

i'd happily do some kind of images to examplify ideas, mine or others?

some side notes: i really like the way delay settings was handeled in xbmp where osd didn't have to be involved to achieve it. badly synced subs and audio/video out of sync is the biggest problem for me when watching movies. maybe this could be done in both "guiwindowfullscreen" and osd?
in xbmp volume wasn't possible to control with the dvd remote. so obviously i'd like that too :)

[b01]

forza, as long as i can edit what the button look like, and manually place them on the screen like you can with xbmc gui. thats all that matters.


what im saying is, make it so i can customze it, move the button around a bit, and whatever extra you want to throw at us.

but for now just get an osd up, im tired of messing with the joystick (guess what this button does! opps!).

[Bhellium]

oh boy did i stirr up a hornets nest :)
if it is fully skinnable then there really isnt a issue.
but what i meant was something like that hullebulle described..

/bhellium
p.s great progress on the project latly just wanna say thanx, thou
i cant compile it since im on a mac

[xsintill]

1.[osd hiding] osd like fast forward rewind stay on screen all the time which i like to hide in some cases while the action is being done.

2.[osd positioning] with the audio synch i'd like it brought down on screen because most of the time while trying to synch i check audio with the mouth articulation and the avdelay bar position makes this a bit more difficult.
sometimes with letterboxed films i use my tv's screen adjustment where the outer edges aren't visible and would like to reposition some of the osd more to the middle
i'd change the position of most osd which resides in the top to the bottom because most informational stuff like in documentaires or with subtitling are done in the bottom. so this would be more naturally for most people. i also think the faces of people tend to take up the upper halve of the screen.

[Gamester17]

one basic with basicly just play/pause, volume/mute, ff/rw that pops up from bottom and only takes up a corner.
that is what a control panel is for, like the control panel in xbmp. it's great for people who only use the xbox game-pads. i would prefer to see separate osd and control-panel (like in xbmp), so no need(clogging up) for osd to have ff/rw/pause/mute,etc.

[Morien]

how about a semi-transparent background to the osd? and for it to look more professional and clean icon-based appearance like a stand-alone dvd player. i can post an example of my toshiba dvd player which i think looks very good and versitial for skins.
also in the video, how about instead of stretch (or along with) an aspect ratio feature is added to stretch the image to 4:3, 16:9, 2.35:1, default, etc. (make it stretch the the ar in proportion to the calibrated screen dimensions and calibrated ar (so 540x480 calibrated screen setting at 4:3 will stretch the image to 540x480 when 4:3 is selected, and 540x304 centered for 16:9, etc. this would compensate for bad encoding and allow people to set the correct ar. if you think it's a good idea (i do :d) then zoom player (http://www.inmatrix.com) (windows) does this very well.)

i'll post a screen capture (via capture card so you'll have to excuse the quality) of my toshiba's osd to show you later on.

morien

[Morien]

one basic with basicly just play/pause, volume/mute, ff/rw that pops up from bottom and only takes up a corner.
that is what a control panel is for, like the control panel in xbmp. it's great for people who only use the xbox game-pads. i would prefer to see separate osd and control-panel (like in xbmp), so no need(clogging up) for osd to have ff/rw/pause/mute,etc.
if this gets incorporated, perhaps a different style to the controll panel could be done. one that doesn't remind me of windows. don't get me wrong, it worked great and looked great, but didn't really seem a part of the skin.

morien

[Gamester17]

one that doesn't remind me of windows. don't get me wrong, it worked great and looked great, but didn't really seem a part of the skin.the control panel in xbmp was/is skinnable, it was just that nobody of the skinners bothered to make new skins for it http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Morien]

the control panel in xbmp was/is skinnable, it was just that nobody of the skinners bothered to make new skins for it http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
oh, ok. i stand corrected then.
i will post some pics of my toshiba's osd tommorow too, i was thinking about it more and it could be made perfect for xbmc functionally.

morien

[Morien]

hi,

i've uploaded some captures of the osd of my toshiba. it's a bit bloated for xbmc purposes however i think the format is great and perfectly suited (and easily skinnable).

menu 1 (first menu press) (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/morien/menu1.jpg) - this is the more simple menu, with only the status, etc. highlighting the title, chapter or time allows you to change it via numbers (the time could be used as an advanced go-to function, where the time can be inputted in hours, minutes and seconds. also the angle, subtitle and audio is changable. the icons on the side are simply to show the status.

menu 2 (second menu press) (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/morien/menu2.jpg) - this one continues on from the previous, however with time remaining and video options, audio options and zoom. the door button exits the menu.

menu 3 (third menu press) (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/morien/menu3.jpg) - this one has more of a control panel interface at the top which, judging by other people's responses might be best if left seperate.

menu 4 (fourth menu press (fith switches it off)) (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/morien/menu4.jpg) - this one shows the bitrate information in graphial form (which imo looks great). icons could also be included for what codecs are in use. ie. for xvid files and xvid logo, divx files a divx logo, dvds a dvd logo, dolby digital a dd logo, dts a dts logo, etc. this in my opinion would make the file information much prettier.

subtitle select (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/morien/menu5.jpg) - this is just how subtitles are selected as a pull down list. the example is from it selected while in the first menu. audio, angle, etc is also selected this way, however picking the sub button when there are no subs just displays a stop symbol (circle with bar through it).

if their cut down a bit in parts and added to in others then i think theyd make a perfect osd. even just the style of the drop down menu for subs track/audio track would be a nice touch. there would only be around 3 menu pages as one is basically just a control panel and they could be accessed and cycled through by the info button say and closed prematurley by the back button.

what does everyone else think?

morien

[forza]

thanks for taking the time to make the shots morien, this sort of thing was what i had in mind for the new osd, although probably without having to click the button so many times to cycle through the options :)

further thoughts anyone?

[Gamester17]

i just like to say/state that i like xbmp osd, only beefs i got with it is that it's slow to bring up because of the slide-up 'feature'

ps! i like to see volume and mute at the first osd screen together with the subsection sections, ...if not in a control panel

[Morien]

forza:
no problem. some of the functions in the pics i posted are redundant and might'nt be needed for xbmc and they could also be seperated. ie: all the file info (filters, state, time duration, time remaining) could be left seperate just in the same style (although i'd personally like it as another page of the osd), the control panel could be accessible only through the controller (lets face it, it's not really needed with the remote) and then the osd seperate. if there isn't enough buttons during watching of a dvd for instance, the display button could also be made to access the osd and another button (such as the door button in the pics i posted) could go back to the gui.

gamester17:
yeah, i liked the xbmp osd, however it just felt a bit unprofessional compared with the rest of the player, if you know what i mean.

also, some functions i'd feally like to see implemented into the osd which haven't already been implemented or mentioned,
video:
aspect ratio switching (as described in my post here (http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.pl?act=st&f=4&t=1198&st=&&#entry5025).
brightness contrast presets (preseted in settings and named with the virtual keyboard)

thanks
morien

[Gamester17]

yeah, i liked the xbmp osd, however it just felt a bit unprofessional compared with the rest of the player, if you know what i mean.
maybe, but one thing i think we all can agree on is that all menu options where selfunderstood, no un-clear buttons etc. and that is very important, anyone should be able to use it the first time trying it out (even without reading manuals or guides)

i vote that you make the new one to "an osd for dummies" http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif simple, quick and selfunderstod being the keywords here

[floink]

so i took the liberty of using ur screenshoots morien. here are pictures of what i had in mind a couple of posts up. retro style though. but it gives you an idea.
pictures of osd step1 and step2 (http://www.owoco.se/floink/xbmc_osd_sample/) step1 accesible with a one button press. i believe pause/play could be in default focus? step2 and the others accessible via navigation in osd. the step2 picture is a pop-up that opens on first select and closes when selected second time, or if other button (outside of pop-up) is selected.
the names/functions of the 4 buttons on the right are divided in to:

sync: syncronise a/v and subtitles
subt.: select subtitle language, sub size, sub font.
video: filters on/off, ar-settings, brightness/contrast + codec/framerate/and so on info.
audio: audio settings on/off, treble/bass + codec/framerate/and so on info.

tell me what you think :) i know everybody don't like the size or colors of the buttons but what about navigation, usability and functionality?

/floink

[calle81]

floink: that looks amazing. it would be easy too use and good looking.

[maao]

i really like the osd of my tivo. very simple and uncluttered for displaying position in video, and play/ff/rew state. i like the sample also, but if i have to use arrow keys to select something using my dvd remote, it defeats the purpose of having a dedicated remote. if it's for controller only, then i suggest we have two osd's, one for controller, and one for remote, and the user configures which osd to use.

just my $2 (accounting for inflation).

[Morien]

floink:
my initial reaction to your design was that it looked too much like a control panel and that you may be missing the point, however, on second look, it does what everyone wants it too. as you've seperated synchronisation it is easily possible to have a menu selection ala my fifth screenshot, where it says the language of the sub (which is possible in dvd, and anything else with subtitles, given that the encoders spent that little bit of time on it, which i've rarely seen one where they haven't). this could also carry on to audio switching. so i'd have it carry across the language name from an ogm for example and so i could select 'english' or 'japanese'. if the encoder didn't change the language name then by default ogm called it 1 or 2, which still works. and under video you could have all the video related options or the angle selection when supported in dvd.

if people don't like your idea of having the control panel options (which, after looking at it, i think is fine), then that section could be replaced by video information in icon form. however i think the status bar (even if made unselectable) should stay in. so if i'm watching one of my dvds, it would display the dvd-video icon, the dts icon (if that's the selected track), and possibly the movie name. also you could add the current status (in icon form), so if the movie is paused, it will display a pause symbol, if it's zoomed in then display a zoom symbol, if a specific aspect ratio is selected (ala my request :d) than display a symbol for that, etc.

personally i don't really like the idea of the current info function being added into the osd like people have suggested, i think that should be left seperate, but the main info being displayed icon based (as i've mentioned here) would look great imo.

edit (just read your post properly floink http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif) : personally, i think sub font and size may be a little redundant in the osd, but that's just my opinion. 'brightness/contrast', just to add my input on this function, in my opinion it would be a bit messy if you could change it in the osd, but as i mentioned before, perhaps a variety of presets could be added (theatre, animation, normal, etc) and also custom presets made in settings and saved with a custom name (named via virtual keyboard). assuming ofcourse you didn't have the same idea. trebble/bass, perhaps this could also be left as presets? or then again, they could be displayed like volume which would look great.

i know everybody don't like the size or colors of the buttons but what about navigation, usability and functionality?

despite what i've already said, if the osd did end up like in your pic, i would be perfectly content. good job.

morien

[floink]

if i have to use arrow keys to select something using my dvd remote, it defeats the purpose of having a dedicated remote.
i don't see why buttons couldn't be mapped to specific function even in the osd. lika a section in keymap.xml called 'osd specific actions' *and when fex play is selected either with controllers' a button or dvdremote or navigation and select you could get visual feedback of play-button being selected.

@morien: thats alot of feedback :)
-the functions i listed were a draft and could change. but i think that this setup also leaves space for future changes and upgrades.
-i generally think that icons look better and it saves space, but are very hard to do as they tend to be interpreted different by every person. and when you have skinnability you could end up with even bigger variety of icons. thats why i choose text rather then icons (for the not so obvious funtions).
-in my opinion audio switching would be natural to do under the audio-button menu.
-for the subs menu i pictured something smilar to what you have in your screenshots.
-the addition of showing icons for current media is nice and could be partially done with existing icons. just ad some more icons.
-the current play/pause/ff/rew status is in my opinion already included in xbmc today with the icons in the top right corner. i think those could be the same, osd open or not.
-why shouldn't the status bar be selectable?

i also realised afterwards that i forgot to include some kind of navigation/menu for video-bookmarks which could be one more button on the right i guess. and remeber with skinnability all buttons and menus can be changed in size and position.

i'd like to hear forzas opinion, after all ur the one who'll end up coding it. :)

/floink

[Morien]

no i don't mean the status bar shouldn't be selectable, what i was trying to put across is that if people don't want a control panel type interface included then i'd like the status bar to remain anyway, whether it be selectable or not. the pics i posted had the current status in the osd and displayed normally. i like it like that (showing in the osd also). don't get me wrong, i like your design, i do realise that it's a draft, but if it's preferred for the control panel features to be otherwise then what i said was what i think would look good as a replacement.

morien

[mosax]

the names/functions of the 4 buttons on the right are divided in to:

sync: syncronise a/v and subtitles
subt.: select subtitle language, sub size, sub font.
video: filters on/off, ar-settings, brightness/contrast + codec/framerate/and so on info.
audio: audio settings on/off, treble/bass + codec/framerate/and so on info.
looks great! :d

maybe add this 5th name/function to the right button row:

bookm. : choose, add and delete bookmarks.


(btw, a bookmark could suggestivly also be set at any time when playing a movie by pressing same button as, when not playing any movie, adds a selected movie to a playlist.)


(not major in this context, but think you forgot a 'stop' button. *http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )


edit: i see you thought about a bookmark button before i had time to post my reply.

[forza]

now we're getting somewhere :)

@floink; *love* the mock-ups, and the method of choosing the sections is good too. my initial thoughts on this were to have a first 'mode' osd which showed the basics (much like yours does) and then allow access to each section for configuration settings (again, like yours does).

i think the design/look/function of the osd is going to be a very contentious issue as there seems to be two very distinct schools of thought here :)

unless anyone wildly disagrees i'm going to start with floink's design and we'll work from there ....

floink; any chance of you sending me some draft graphics to play with?

[floink]

it would be rude not to. :) i'll pm you about details.
/floink

[Morien]

unless anyone wildly disagrees i'm going to start with floink's design and we'll work from there ....
as i've already stated, if the osd was implemented exactly as shown in floinks mockups (which from what i understand isn't all that likley as they're drafts), i would be perfectly content.

one thought however, could the button focus be set on one of the menu buttons initially? (as oposed to a control button (play/pause,etc)) ? so for instance the focus is on video first?

the mockups alone, do look many many times more professional than the current osd and the xbmp osd. and i do mean that. one question tho (possibly way to premature but oh well), will there be a seperate info page? (if so will it still remain in the same style?) or will there be an additional button for it on the osd? just in case you (forza) are also making that info page, is the bitrate status bar (as shown in the menu 4 pic i posted here (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/morien/menu4.jpg)) feasible for implementation? or would it be too much of a memory hog to work?

morien

[forza]

morien; i'm just going to kick off some code to get things started so i'll see how it goes with default focus etc. hopefully having designed & written software as a job for over 16 years (and still going!) i can make the osd intuitive and easy to use :)

as for showing the bitrate and info's; yes i did have an info page in mind and i'll put in as much info as mplayer will let me have :)

i'll keep y'all posted ...

[mosax]

here is an layout idea for pop-up menu for bookmarks in osd (based on floink's layout (http://www.owoco.se/floink/xbmc_osd_sample/)):

============================
*bookmark - 00:15:14 * *|edit| *|delete|
*bookmark - 01:17:45 * *|edit| *|delete|
*bookmark - 01:17:45 * *|edit| *|delete| * * * * * * * * * * * * <<pop-up menu

*|add bookmark| * * *|delete all |
============================
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ||
|sync.|subt.|video|audio|bookm.| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<<buttons in osd


explanation:
edit: edit name of bookmark (default is 'bookmark') and adjust time (goto separate edit layout)
delete: delete single bookmark.
add bookmark: press button to add bookmark at current time.
delete all: deletes bookmarks for the video, if any.

-name of bookmark scrolls when selected if it is to long to show (like file name when browsing files).
-if to many bookmarks to show on screen, use listbox to allow scrolling.



edit layout (when having pressed edit for a bookmark):
============================
*name: bookmark *
*time: 00:15:14

*|done| * |cancel| * |delete|
============================
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ||
|sync.|subt.|video|audio|bookm.|


explanation:
done: saves changes and returns to previous menu.
cancel: revert changes and returns to previous menu.
delete: deletes bookmark and returns to previous menu.

-when selecting bookmark, on-screen keyboard pops up.
-when selecting hours or minutes or seconds respectivly, up and down buttons on remote (and controller) changes time.


a bookmark should also be possible to add to a playing movie by just pressing a button, without using osd. (why not reuse same button used for adding to playlist, since it's not used in this context).

[floink]

@morien: remember that if osd'll be fully skinnable you'll be able to set <defaultcontrol></defaultcontrol> yourself :)

@mosax: i really like your bookmark ideas and the thoughts on the osd menus. i've read ur previous posts on the topic before aswell. i belive a menu like the one above would be a bit too complex for an osd but still, maybe not? also it has to be supported in code and i don't know if bookmarks are related to osd @ll codewise. forza? a nice extra feature with this would be the ability to auto-capture a screenshot accompaning the bookmark. so when scrolling bookmarks you see a thumb preview of the scene bookmarked (makes naming not so important).

i think a seperate bookmark manager would be in place here where you have text editing and such included. maybe somehow related to the imdb info screen/video database, which would get you something close to a dvd menu for any movie. so; osd is used for capturing, browsing/using bookmarks. bookmark manager is used for... managing bookmarks.

woha, sharing ideas is fun :) aint it?

/floink

[Morien]

a nice extra feature with this would be the ability to auto-capture a screenshot accompaning the bookmark. so when scrolling bookmarks you see a thumb preview of the scene bookmarked (makes naming not so important).
that's a very good idea. i've seen many pvr programs do the same kind of thing and it works very well.
also when dvds are finally up to scratch, perhaps it could automatically do this for each chapter? so on the first play of the title it could capture the first frame or a few seconds in of each chapter and store it for the next time the dvd is played.
also, just a feature request for the bookmarks, perhaps if it could automatically use a standard chapter format stored either with the movie or in a xbmc\chapter\ folder? similar to how subtitle files work?

morien

[zilvershadow]

hello

my suggestion is based on a mediaplayer for windows called mv2player.

first menu (by pressing the key one time):
basic controls

- audio stream
- audio volume
- audio balance
- subtitles selection
- subtitles position
- video scan
- video aspect ratio (preselect)
- video free aspect radio +/-

second menu (by pressing the key a second time):
color/filter controls
- brightness
- saturation
- contrast
- hue
- postprocessing filter
- deinterlace

next menu cycle = bookmarks, (chapters/titles/sets options available when playing dvd for example)

in the last menu cycle you can select recently played files: video/stills/audio

a seekbar is displayed on top of the screen where you can seek through the video and where you can see how much you have left (including other stacked files)

osd from mv2player (http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/sg.homs/basecontrols.jpg)
i like this quite much. it is clear, simple, and easy to use. i hope you agree with me.
when the osd is skinnable you can practically make anything of it.

[BloodyLoony]

one thing i'd love for the osd is the ability to change aspect ratio.
like on my 4:3 tv i'ld like to trim a bit off the sides on eg. a 2.35:1 movie using pan scan!

[Morien]

that isn't to do with aspect ratio but zoom. all that would be needed for what you want is a second zoom for 2.35:1. this, however, i would also like (multiple zooms), however a lot of screen will be gone and a lot missed at that zoom.

morien

[Kobazz]

doesnt really mather to me...as long as the functions from the old panel get in there.. volume, play, pause, ffw etc.. didnt see anything wrong with the old one. the slide thing was cool, but if it becomes fully skinable that would even be cooler.

[mosax]

... a nice extra feature with this would be the ability to auto-capture a screenshot accompaning the bookmark. so when scrolling bookmarks you see a thumb preview of the scene bookmarked (makes naming not so important).
nice feature! i still think text is very useful though, like for serie episodes where identifying each can be hard just by a screen capture (could just be intro text, same for each part). more useful would then be if one could freely select what picture frame to go with each bookmark. then you could select a easily identifyible frame, not just the one at the exact bookmark. of cause being able to select 'picture' or 'text' or even 'picture and text' bookmarks would be really nice, but maybe not in the first iteration. http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


i think a seperate bookmark manager would be in place here where you have text editing and such included. maybe somehow related to the imdb info screen/video database, which would get you something close to a dvd menu for any movie. so; osd is used for capturing, browsing/using bookmarks. bookmark manager is used for... managing bookmarks.


great idea to combine bookmark management with imdb info screen. though it would be most useful to also be able to 'use' the bookmarks from that interface. you could then use the bookmark menu without starting a movie and choose to go to any of them.

could look something like this: (sorry for the ascii graphics, hope the concept comes across anyway)

when pressing the button on the remote that today brings up imdb info, the screen below is instead shown, having 3 sections on top, 'movie info' for imdb info, 'bookmarks', and 'file info' (for technical info about the movie file: codecs, transfer rates, file size etc.). *

screen layout:
=================================
*movie info * * | * * *bookmarks * ** | * ** file info * * *|
* * * * * * * * * * *----------------------------------------------------*

<lookup> * |======================|
<manual> * *| * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * *|
<refresh> * | ** * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * **|
<cast>* ** * *| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **|
* * * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** *|
* * * * * * * * * | * * * *info about the movie * ** * * * |
* * * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * *|
* * * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * *|
*** * * * * * * * | ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * |
* * * * * * * * * | ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * |
* * * * * * * * **|======================|

=================================

-lookup: fetches info about the movie from imdb (to show the menu faster, *it might be wise not to do this automatically).
-manual: same as today, enter search string manually.
-refresh: same as today, redo the search.
-cast: same as today, toggle between cast and plot.

the screen below is shown when the user selects the 'bookmark' section. the user can from there goto, edit or delete a bookmark, delete all bookmarks or play the movie from the beginning (instead of going back to the file list to start it). a bookmark could also be added by entering an absolute time for it. (if a bookmark could be both a picture and a text you could toggle between views using <show pictures>.)

screen layout:
=================================
*movie info * * | * * *bookmarks * * *| * * *file info * * *|
--------------------- * * * * * * * * * * * * * *------------------------

* <add bookmark> * <delete all> * *<play from start>
* <show pictures>
* *bookmark - 00:10:34 * * * *<edit> *<delete>
* *bookmark - 00:15:22 * * * *<edit> *<delete>
* *bookmark - 00:23:11 * * * *<edit> *<delete>
* *bookmark - 00:45:14 * * * *<edit> *<delete>
* *bookmark - 00:56:43 * * * *<edit> *<delete>
* *bookmark - 01:15:05 * * * *<edit> *<delete>
* *bookmark - 01:34:08 * * * *<edit> *<delete>
* *bookmark - 01:39:20 * * * *<edit> *<delete>

==================================

the third section, 'file info', is just to give an example of how such a section menu could be extended further.

i also think it is a good way of preserving the scarce buttons to use a many-in-one menu like this.

the user could possibly select which section would come up pre-selected, according to his/hers own preferences (in 'settings' menu or in skin file).


so; osd is used for capturing, browsing/using bookmarks. bookmark manager is used for... managing bookmarks.

about a bookmark interface in the osd, i still think it would be very useful to also be able to name the bookmarks at the time of creating them, in the osd (or when pressing 'bookmark' button without showing osd). just imagine that you make 10 bookmarks for a video file while playing it. if you later have to go to another interface to name them it will be hard to remember which is which.

just some ideas... *:)

[IndieRockSteve]

think tivo!

i posted my thoughts about this before, a search should bring it up.
but basically, i'd love if the video play control osd resembled the tivo.

i also agree with an earlier post, there should be an option for osd skinning so people can write their own osd's.

thanks for all the great work!

[Morien]

what's the tivo osd look like? and what functionality does it have (besides recording). we don't have it in australia so all i know about it is what i see in banners at the top of websites.

morien

[gmackenz]

what's the tivo osd look like? and what functionality does it have (besides recording). we don't have it in australia so all i know about it is what i see in banners at the top of websites.
you can view the obnoxious flash demo here tivo demo (http://www.tivo.com/1.0.demo.asp)

i really hope to have a nested osd where it is really simple (user-configured? only the main functions needed in 99% of need of use for video/music playback) in the default callup from hitting a button on my dvd-remote and then hitting the same button can call up a more featured osd displayed with the various sub-functions as mentioned before in this forum.

i do like how the tivo will in it's intial hitting of the play button will bringup that time bar with a simple graphic of what the mplayer is doing currently (say, playing at time <minute:second>) placed on the center of the time bar where the viewer is at for the length of the video/music file.

[forza]

hi all,

quick update on the current state of play.

i've created a new window object just for the osd, which is fully skinable just like any other xbmc window. all the basic functions (stop/play/ffwd/rewind etc.) all work now. i'm working on the sub-menu elements now.

the screenshot shows an example osd (cool graphics by floink) and shows a demo volume sub-menu active (i know it looks horrible at the moment, this is work in progress remember!). remember - with it being skinnable, how it looks, where it appears etc. is all up to you :)

hopefully have something more complete and polished looking next week.

http://www.sammibranson.co.uk/stuff/osd_wip.jpg

[Frodo]

nice work forza
cant wait to see this in action
frodo

[Morien]

looks like it has great potential forza, even if it does look "horrible".
to be honest, as is it's great, leaving ample room for the remaining toolbars.
to add some more helpfull feedback however, just to prevent it from being overlooked, remember overscan compensation, resized to meet the calibrated screen settings would be optimal.

great work
morien

[Gamester17]

looks nice, simple is good. maybe make it a little bit bigger verticaly though so can see on small tv's, or is that part skinnable too?

[forza]

gamester; it certainly is :) the basic design concept with the new osd was that the whole thing should be skinnable to user taste.

[Morien]

when you put it that way forza (i know it's been put that way the whole time, but meh) it's a perfect osd.
but alas, now i gotta learn how to skin :(

morien

[NEI]

looks terrific! :-) can't wait for it...

[IndieRockSteve]

i'd honestly like to see playback information seperate from options information.

i like the last screen shot posted, but i think that if the slider was integrated into the bar instead of the options buttons it would be much cleaner for playback control, then a seperate but similar overlay for options would be nice.

great work guys, xbmc is a-m-a-z-i-n-g because of work like this!

[IndieRockSteve]

here are some links to tivo screenshots. ignore the menu stuff and look for the osd shots...

http://www.pvrcompare.com/dtimages.html
http://www.garysargent.co.uk/tivo/glossary/images/timebar.jpg
http://www.garysargent.co.uk/tivo/glossary/images/livetv.jpg

[Morien]

indierocksteve:
if what i am hearing is correct then you'll be able to have a tivo like interface, as the osd will be fully skinnable to user preference, so you'd just need to make or hope for a tivo skin.

forza:
i'm not sure if you've planned this, or if it's too late to implement it, but to satisfy both minded people (seperate osd/control, joined osd/control) is it possible to make an available option for skins to have seperate menus? so it would be left up to skinner design?

morien

[forza]

morien: the pop-up menus are hardcoded (for want of a better phrase) although what they look like and where they appear on screen is up to the skinner. think of it this way; you can do all the same things with the osd window as you can any other window in xbmc - what you can't change is *how* it works.

as 90% of the coding is complete we'll have to kick off with what we've got for the moment and review it once people have had a chance to play with it. personaly, i like it how it is - but then i would say that wouldn't i ? :)

btw, eta end of this week ...

[Morien]

forza:
oh ok. my mistake. doesn't really bother me, i have the feeling now that i'd prefer it to take only one button for future proofing with dvds being fully playable.
can't wait to try it out.

morien

[mosax]

btw, eta end of this week ...
sure looking forward to it. :)

can you say how much of the funtionality in the pop-ups will be ready in the first run? and what pop-up will there be? maybe you can post some screenshots so we can provide preview-feedback right now? ...if you don't think that will delay the eta, of cause.

[IndieRockSteve]

cool, a skinnable osd would answer a lot of people's prayers.
just make sure the osd skin option is seperate from the main skin, that way people can mix and match easily if they want.

great work guys'n'gals!

[Gamester17]

make sure the osd skin option is seperate from the main skin, that way people can mix and match easily if they want.
good idea, i second that http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[forza]

the xml defining the osd skin is a separate file so you will be able to mix and match as you please.

[Gamester17]

the xml defining the osd skin is a separate file so you will be able to mix and match as you please.
i meant skin/osd mix and match switching from the gui, think indierocksteve meant that too, separate skin and osd selection under settings. hope that is not too much to ask but if it is it's not the end of the world, one just then have to manualy copy xml and pic files.

[floink]

if i'm not wrong here one problem with this might be in how to keep track of all images involved. sure if it means just switching between osds from different skins i guess that problem dissapears but as in the retro case i've been thinking of having one big and one small osd and the switch would have to be made by moving the corresponding files 'in and out' of the skin folder. afaik the osd now consists of 65 different images (if all features are used) and that alone is like a 50% increase of number of images for a skin(224kb in retro case).
what if the images for the osd are sorted in sub folders in the media folder for the skin? then you could have osd large osd small or whatever naming you want? this would offcourse require the corresponding osdsmall.xml and osdlarge.xml too.

[Gamester17]

this would offcourse require the corresponding osdsmall.xml and osdlarge.xml too.
or just put the xml inside the subfolder with the name of the osd and that folder into a subfolder inside a folder called osd in each skin? file structure would then look something like this (so could then add a switch in gui to switch between the different osd in each skin):

xbmc\
xbmc\skin\
xbmc\skin\retro\
xbmc\skin\retro\osdgeneric.xml
xbmc\skin\retro\osd\small\
xbmc\skin\retro\osd\small\osd.xml
xbmc\skin\retro\osd\large\
xbmc\skin\retro\osd\large\osd.xml
xbmc\skin\retro\osd\whatever\
xbmc\skin\retro\osd\whatever\osd.xml
xbmc\skin\hifi\
xbmc\skin\hifi\osdgeneric.xml
xbmc\skin\hifi\osd\small\
xbmc\skin\hifi\osd\small\osd.xml
xbmc\skin\hifi\osd\large\
xbmc\skin\hifi\osd\large\osd.xml
xbmc\skin\hifi\osd\whatever\
xbmc\skin\hifi\osd\whatever\osd.xml

so in gui can select "retro osd - small" or "retro osd -large" or "hifi osd - small", etc. while still using the retro skin http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
...of couse a main osdgeneric.xml must in skin root have a referense which osd is the default for it's skin so in gui see a note

[floink]

well that was actually kinda my mental image of it, i just couldn't get that out. thanx gamester17 http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[forza]

ok - for the first release i'll get it to look for the xml and graphic files from a folder called osd located off the selected skin's folder.

[pike]

hope u had a nice relaxing weekend there :) any updates on the new osd?

[jasonmuir]

i must agree with bhellium. i
would like to see some sort of progress bar and a time reference like in xbmp when playing videos.

would also like to see the old mtv type style songtitle and info when playing is visualisation mode.

[silentyl]

we need the ability to switch between audio streams in the osd..please!

so when we want to play a video file with more than one audio stream , we can switch between them....normal audio to directors commentry to etc... etc...

maybe just a tick box or something easy...

[Morien]

jasonmuir:
that's been the plan all along. check forza's pre-release pics on the last page. or might've been the page before.

silentyl:
that's already in the current osd (been in there for a while) and is in the new osd (check the pre-release pic and posts leading up to it).

morien

[forza]

sorry i haven't shown any progress over the last few days - i've had a few things i've needed to deal with plus a last minute whisking away on a short break by my better half!

anyway - all dealt with and i can get back on track with the osd. i will get this finished and committed to cvs by the end of this week.

[Frodo]

come on forza, show us something
we cant wait any longer!!!
frodo

[Gamester17]

hehe, frodo's getting impatient, that's a first, he must really really want this function himself http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[forza]

it's coming :) all features present and correct i'm just hooking up the remote control to work properly ...

[x][dyn]

nice :d im really looking forward to the new osd

[thebeast]

i have some ideas for a future osd like feature, but i will wait for the new osd :)

[forza]

new osd committed to cvs ... enjoy :)

[MrMario64]

can't compile:
xbmc\osd\osdoptionfloatrange.cpp(10) : error c2661: 'cguislidercontrol::cguislidercontrol' : no overloaded function takes 8 arguments
xbmc\osd\osdoptionfloatrange.cpp(21) : error c2661: 'cguislidercontrol::cguislidercontrol' : no overloaded function takes 8 arguments
xbmc\osd\osdoptionfloatrange.cpp(32) : error c2661: 'cguislidercontrol::cguislidercontrol' : no overloaded function takes 8 arguments

[forza]

do another cvs update now - two files got missed during the first commit.

[pike]

i'm very impressed with your work so far forza!

a couple of bugs, but i didnt expect it to be bugfree right from the start http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

cheers! http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Frodo]

excellent work forza!
just 1 small thing i noticed is that the osd should b drawn a little bit higher.
now the osd is drawn ontop of mplayer's progressbar
and in most times the subtitles (if used) are drawn on top of the osd making it invisible
frodo

[floink]

nice work forza, it fits amizingly well with the retro skin *http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
drawing it higher would basically be a matter of changing a whole lot of <posy> in videoosd.xml or.... would it in any way be possible to add a videoosd calibration in the screen calibration section in settings? maybe similar to subs-calibration?
as it is set up now in the xml i have to do a -80px adjust in y direction in gui calibration to have it show at all.

and i guess the question is not just addressed to forza http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[deltop]

very impressive forza.

we taking bug reports yet? ;)

but seriously it's sooooo nice :)

[MrMario64]

good stuff forza!
let us know what you still wanna change/tweak so we won't bother you with bugs/requests :)

good work.

[goataz]

can't we just get rid of the old-style mplayer progress bar... in fact, can't we get rid of most of the old-style graphics (pause, ffw, rw, the text when hitting <play>, etc, and integrate them directly into this osd somehow?

excellent work, btw.

[Bobbin007]

great work forza! http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

small and function rich. every important information in place

great!

bobbin007

[burriko]

would it in any way be possible to add a videoosd calibration in the screen calibration section in settings? maybe similar to subs-calibration?
i second that. i find that the osd is too high when in pal mode, and too low when in pal60. it'd be great to be able to set it to a certain height for each resolution just like the subs calibration.

also, it's not possible to change the audio track with the osd. the problem is that it tries to change the audio track as you move the cursor through the list of tracks. so as soon as you move the cursor down to the first track it automatically selects it and closes the osd, so you can never get past the first track to select the 2nd track.

apart from that it's looking awesome. :d

[forza]

thanks for the kind words - it makes it all worthwhile :)

i think the main thing i'm going to change right away is to have a calibration position (y axis only i think) - this was something i had in mind as i was doing the code, but thought it was about time i checked some code into cvs!

edit: i'll also be changing some of the buttons around to make it a bit more intuitive.

i'll look into the audio stream switching, i think it might only do that when you're using the remote control because when i first tested it with the game pad it worked fine.

as always; welcome any comments/feedback/bug reports/suggestions.

[Morien]

yeah, i agree with everyone else forza, great work. much better than the previous osd.

also, just a quick bug report, i tried modifying the xml to direct focus initially to the subtitle button (instead of the play button) however it ignored me :(

great work though forza, you think the rest of the features will soon be implemented into the menus? (zoom, stretch, aspect ratio, etc)
after enough time is given for bugfixes and further implementation, this will be awesome. great work.

morien

[MrMario64]

forza > i was thinking about audio volume.

could it be done that once you changed the volume during a movie it will fall back to it's default volume when you exit the movie?
this way you won't blow your speakers when i set the volukme higher for a soft movie, and then play a normal volume movie.

the volume in settings/music now only effects movies, so you could make it so that that is the default volume slider and revert to that setting on exit of movie (not reverting while you stack movies mind...)..

[grote002]

the new osd is awesome !!
looks really nice and it doesnt take so much space
i changed the osd to lower part of the screen again, dont really want it to be in the movie-area and dont really mind that it is in the way of the progress-bar, which isnt really needed anyway :)
i would like to have the focus on the sub/video/audio-button, with the remote you dont need to have the focus on the play-button.

great work and looking forward to any updates (and skins http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/forums/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif)

[pike]

@forza do you keep my music in mind also when you design this? we need osd there also

[forza]

yes - i was thinking we'll need an osd there too, once we've got the video one sorted the way everyone wants i'll start work on that :)

i've done some changes, mainly so that the osd y position can be set for each resolution and a few bug fixes/tweaks. i'm away on business until friday, but will hopefully get this checked in during the weekend.

[Gamester17]

i've done some changes, mainly so that the osd y position can be set for each resolution
cool, because i noticed that i can't see the osd if play widescreen movies with "auto 4:3/16:9-switching" enabled

[erpi99]

very nice interface! it will be even better if it shows what is the speed of fast forward/rewind

[---=Snyper=---]

i likey..

i did like the idea for the color and stuff that might be nice to have.. and/or an eq.. just a thought

i love having my xbmp like bar back..

[tards]

hi all,

quick update on the current state of play.

[snip]

hopefully have something more complete and polished looking next week.

http://www.sammibranson.co.uk/stuff/osd_wip.jpg
this looks nice! is this still the latest working image? when will this be implemented?

i have the 2-12-2004 build and it still has the [|||||||||||] bar.

thanks

[pike]

this looks nice! *is this still the latest working image? *when will this be implemented? *

i have the 2-12-2004 build and it still has the [|||||||||||] bar.

thanks
the [|||||||||||] is mplayers built-in seeking

this new osd is already implemented, in cvs

no point asking when a new build will be out since we dont make them.
naturally it isn't implemented in the build you mention, since it wasn't added to cvs then :lol:

[Morien]

tards:
that is pretty much what it looks like. except it also has a button for subs and a button for bookmarks.
it looks very nice indeed.

morien

[forza]

i didn't mention this at the time, which was *very* bad of me; but all credit for the graphics should go to floink - he worked extremely hard designing and creating the wonderful images you see in your shiny new osd.

apologies to floink for not crediting him in the announcement.

[thugg]

i don't know if this was previously mentioned (too lazy to look through it). but, i'm now unable to switch between audio streams. when i select audio, the nice little box comes up and lists the audio streams. however, when hitting down (to try and select stream two) it automatically selects stream one (currently active), and i can't go 'up' and come up on the bottom to select stream two. other than that, looks great, much better than the old one (no offense). also, the solid black background (like for the audio section for instance) is a little harsh, perhaps it could have about 50% opacity or something?

[zilvershadow]

it looks like audio volume doesnt work yet.

thanks.

[Morien]

thugg: it has been previously mentioned and will be fixed, but that bug only occurs if you're using the remote. so if you try using the controller it should be fine.

morien

[BloodyLoony]

manual subtitle file selection is one of the final things the osd needs to be just fine.
details here: http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin....;t=2235 (http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.pl?act=st;f=4;t=2235)

[jaga]

could someone make a change so that the osd shown when a song starts playing (in the visualization) could be brought up again?
--jaga

[Beelzebub]

yac support in xbmc? knowing who calling would be great while you watching a movie for you will know if you want to get up and pause the movie and answer the phone or just stay watching the movie and ignore the call

the way yac works is when a call comes in and your 56k modem on your pc picks up the name/number yac will broadcast the name/number to the programs that support it on the lan/network such as tivo/some directv boxes and if xbmc would add support for it well yac could broad cast the name and number on screen while you watching a movie or so on...

here is a screen shot of how it shows up on tivo http://www.sunflowerhead.com/images/yac-tivo-screenshot.jpg

and here is a screen shot of how it shows up on pc

http://www.sunflowerhead.com/images/yac-screen.jpg

basically all xbmc needs to do is support yac so yac can send info to it "broadcast" the info to the screen etc... i'm not sure if people understand how it works so i tried to give a better look on it

for more info check http://www.sunflowerhead.com/software/yac/ it is opensource and here is a site with info on how to write a client for yac http://www.sunflowerhead.com/software/yac/yac-sdk.htm

maybe a on-screen dialog like the one used for movies that show play/pause/rewind buttons could pop up and show the name & number of caller for 5 seconds or what ever you set your osd time-out to

[pike]

eeeh, beelzebub, a little ot in this thread. u should post stuff like this in a separate thread (or perhaps you already have) and then once is enough.

[Beelzebub]

well if support for such thing was to be added it would need to be supported in the new osd they're working on? so i thought it had to do with it? for the "pop-up" dialog on screen showing the info etc...

[Gamester17]

actually the new osd which this thread was originaly opened for is already in so i'm going to go ahead and close this thread.